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+--- Thread: Balmung or Gilgamesh? (/showthread.php?tid=2601)
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Adelpha - 07-05-2013
(07-05-2013, 12:37 PM)allgivenover Wrote: I understand what you're saying but...I think we're on the same page, but our perspectives are just a little different, which is fine
...Zyrusticae suggested that if people were so worried about the economy that SE simply reduce everyone's Gil by 90% or so, I responded that they are doing this. Whether or not the purchasing power remains the same is irrelevant - I actually disagree that it's completely the same, because there are way more Gil sinks in ARR than 1.0 - they are indeed slashing player's Gil by 90%, therefore, yes, they are doing that.
All I'm trying to get at is that it doesn't "help the economy" in any way because it doesn't actually change any inequities. Someone who could buy 100 times the stuff as you in 1.0 will still be able to buy 100 times the stuff as you today. People have been talking since SE first announced this about how "SE is taking away all of my hard-earned money" or "now those rich players won't have such a leg up over me," neither of which are really true.
The fact that ARR will have added gil sinks (notably, housing) will probably serve to equalize the economy a bit, assuming that rich players go and buy the biggest houses in the game. 100% agreement on that point.
(07-05-2013, 12:37 PM)allgivenover Wrote: I don't see any reference to a wealth tax here? Just a suggestion that player's Gil value be cut by 90%.That was what I read into the comment about "if they're really that concerned about the economy or somesuch they can just cut everyone's current gil by 90%". Because an across-the-board downscale doesn't reduce rich characters' advantages one iota, or change anything about the economy aside from making all of the numbers look smaller. Any disadvantage for new players would still be exactly the same as if they did nothing.
(Sorry for the edits! I'm bad at posting today, apparently.)
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Zyrusticae - 07-05-2013
(07-05-2013, 12:41 PM)Adelpha Wrote: Any disadvantage for new players would still be exactly the same as if they did nothing.But this is wrong.
There is a finite amount of gil you can attain through normal play. Over a certain amount of play hours you will have X amount of gil, guaranteed. Thus, by cutting all existing players' gil by 90%, it takes a LOT less time for someone to catch up with that amount through normal play. If someone has 1 million gil and keeps it, it will take MUCH longer for someone new to the game to catch up to that amount, whereas 100k is a considerably more manageable number.
Obviously, if you don't play the game at all, your wealth inequality will remain exactly the same, but that's not the scenario I'm concerned about here. I don't care about how poor people were in 1.0 versus the rich folks, I care about how much purchasing power rich legacy players would have versus new players just starting out. Or at least, that's the concern that most people who have problems with the legacy servers seem to have (besides the level differences, naturally).
Over time the gil income from natural play should even out the field. Allowing legacy players to keep their full gil allotment would make it take much, much longer for this to even out. That's all there is to it.
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Adelpha - 07-05-2013
That's the thing; players also earn gil at 1/10th the rate that they did in 1.0. ("All quest rewards, monster drops, and in-game monetary rewards will be reduced to 1/10 of current values.") It won't be faster to "catch up" because everything in the game -- earning money, spending money, and how much money everyone currently has -- is more or less exactly the same as it was before, all of the numbers are just 1/10th as big as they used to be. While "that sword" that was 1,000,000 gil may now be 100,000 and while the guy who once had 50 million gil will now have 5 million, that also means that the quest that would've given you 20,000 gil will now give you 2,000. Although the numbers are all smaller, there's still just as much of a hill to climb to catch up with those old-timers. (Barring the effect of gil sinks such as housing, which should help quite a bit.)
And as I said before, the one wrinkle in all of this is that old players may be mentally attached to prices for certain old items ("this piece of gear sold on the markets for 200,000 gil in 1.0, so I'll try to sell it for that price again!"). And there's nothing either SE or we as players can do about that, aside from not paying those prices. (Maybe an enterprising new player could flip some gear on the markets at "old prices" to clueless old-timers, though, to try to make some easy money.
)(I apologize to the mods for how far this thread has apparently gotten off its original topic. I won't be contributing to this side conversation any further.)
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Zyrusticae - 07-05-2013
Oh, I missed the post about the "currency re-denomination". You're right, that actually changes nothing.
What I THOUGHT was happening was that all old players would have their current gil allotment reduced to 1/10 of what they were and that gil faucets would not change.
This feels incredibly pointless now. They should be cutting the gil amounts of everyone to 1/100 or something instead...
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Asyria - 07-05-2013
The whole legacy vs non-legacy thing shouldn't exist.
The thing is simply that FF XIV isn't a brand new game, simply a game that went on hiatus and has been reworked significantly. But it's not new. It's like 3 years old. The only difference is this downtime period when the game was being improved.
It stands to reason that older players shouldn't lose anything due to new players coming in. Squeenix simply chose to label older stuff Legacy and newer stuff non-Legacy, but those labels put ideas in people's minds, I guess.
So, all in all, it's exactly like if there suddenly was tons of players joining an already running mmo.
It's like WoW's Cataclysm expansion. Suddenly, new races, the whole world is changed, areas are all different than before, so older player feel like redoing them and newer ons jump in all excited. The one and only difference between this is... for FF XIV there was a long downtime period
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - FreelanceWizard - 07-05-2013
(07-05-2013, 06:19 PM)Asyria Wrote: The one and only difference between this is... for FF XIV there was a long downtime period
Well, I'd add to that that the new players vastly outnumber the old ones.
That's an important point, IMO, because it changes the dynamic considerably. In most MMOs, the "subscription spike" after each expansion is mostly old subscribers coming back for a time; rarely does an expansion attract a bunch of new players. In ARR, however, the spike is going to be mostly new players and will be a dramatic increase over the old player base.It's that difference that's why I'm especially comfortable playing on Balmung -- I know that I won't be one little person trying to join an enormous existing community.
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Deirdre - 07-05-2013
(07-05-2013, 05:20 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: Oh, I missed the post about the "currency re-denomination". You're right, that actually changes nothing.
What I THOUGHT was happening was that all old players would have their current gil allotment reduced to 1/10 of what they were and that gil faucets would not change.
This feels incredibly pointless now. They should be cutting the gil amounts of everyone to 1/100 or something instead...
So I guess all of the hard work those of us who stuck with the game did doesn't matter then? Come on, we earned our gil, they already slashed it pretty dramatically. Most of this gil is going to get sunk in to relics and houses regardless.
I want to also point out that there are VERY FEW RPers with a lot of gil. Most didn't bother with markets or crafts or selling or grinding.
Just play on whatever server you want, no one is going to stop you, and everyone is going to have their own opinions. More of these debate threads just loop the conversation in to circles.
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Zyrusticae - 07-05-2013
The whole thing is just stupid. Is ARR a new game or not? If not, then leave everyone's characters untouched and forget about the non-legacy crap. If it IS, then nobody should be keeping anything from 1.0, period.
As it is, the community's getting split up and for what? For nothing worthwhile as far as I can tell. It's all cow patties from where I stand.
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Gimlette - 07-05-2013
so, for desi...my motivation  is to be where my closest friend is...atm it stands that he is gonna be on balmung as are several other close friends.  that being said lulu could be on either.  frankly, the idea of legacy vs non is stupid to me...the game doesnt need dividers
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Faiz - 07-05-2013
(07-05-2013, 08:57 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: The whole thing is just stupid. Is ARR a new game or not? If not, then leave everyone's characters untouched and forget about the non-legacy crap. If it IS, then nobody should be keeping anything from 1.0, period.
As it is, the community's getting split up and for what? For nothing worthwhile as far as I can tell. It's all cow patties from where I stand.
ARR is a reboot of the original XIV. It's not a new game, but rather a rebooted re-release. They took the original, changed a whole lot of crap, and now we're beta testing it.
If people are given the option to use their 1.0 characters, they should be able to. It's that simple, whether people like it or not.
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Clover - 07-07-2013
(Please excuse my bad English *bows*).
I'm a new Spanish player who has recently gotten interested in the new FXIV. I'm a roleplayer first and foremost, and I've spent the past weeks just dying to RPÂ in this game.
This topic has made me a bit worried as to what server I should join in the end. Initially, Balmung seems the best option; it's where the RP is, after all! I love the fact that many people have been developing their characters' stories for a while; that makes things all the more interesting in my opinion. However, I'd also like to be able to play the game without being crushed by an unforgiving economy...
Oh well. I guess I'll still give Balmung a try if nothing else happens until the release day ^^;
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Spiritual Machine - 07-09-2013
(07-07-2013, 11:19 AM)Clover Wrote: (Please excuse my bad English *bows*).That had been the primary fear between myself and my friends with rolling up on a Legacy server, at first. However, I'm not sure if that's a legitimate concern.
I'm a new Spanish player who has recently gotten interested in the new FXIV. I'm a roleplayer first and foremost, and I've spent the past weeks just dying to RPÂ in this game.
This topic has made me a bit worried as to what server I should join in the end. Initially, Balmung seems the best option; it's where the RP is, after all! I love the fact that many people have been developing their characters' stories for a while; that makes things all the more interesting in my opinion. However, I'd also like to be able to play the game without being crushed by an unforgiving economy...
Oh well. I guess I'll still give Balmung a try if nothing else happens until the release day ^^;
Realistically, as a new character you won't be leaning on the economy anyway. You'll just be leveling doing your thing while the economy evens out. You see, there's always a "crazy" period where new content comes out, or a new game launches, where items that are harder to obtain will be farmed by those who can obtain them and then listed higher than they will be in a month or so.
This will happen on every server.
All high-level people will do to the economy is the same thing low-level people will do: obtain high level materials and list them high. But the demand won't be high, and those prices will even out by the time you care about those items.
You will probably see a lot of "Legcay" players playing level 1 characters anyway, just to enjoy the new content. In any case, I don't expect to see low-level zones empty on Legacy servers, despite the worry. People may be underestimating how many people will be rolling up on every server...
Also, Square-Enix is paying attention to the concern enough that they're severely slashing the amount of money that every Legacy character has.
In other words, while some people don't like the whole Legacy thing, it is not likely that the economy on any server will suffer because of it.
The real question in determining whether you want to be on Balmung or Gilgamesh is this: do you want a large, established roleplay community, or do you want to start fresh in a growing community and see how it plays out?
Balmung is an establishment with (from what I've seen) many helpful and nice roleplayers, veterans of the game, of organizing roleplay in the game, and of running linkshells and events. Many people are already set up to return to Balmung with their linkshells, and many more have decided to go there because it's been THE unofficial RP server for a good long time.
Gilgamesh, on the other hand, will likely have veterans from other games, and will be establishing brand new standards in their community, and brand new linkshells. The community there already has a good deal of support and a growing population. It is a good alternative to Balmung, especially for those who like smaller RP communities.
That's what it comes down to for me, anyway.
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Miss Marigold - 07-10-2013
I just really hope this site continues to emphasize that Balmung is the primary RP server and that Gilgamesh is the secondary RP server.
As someone coming over fresh from GW2, the recent front page post definitely does not give that impression. If I were to look at that without having previously read the forums here, I would presume that Gilgamesh is where I should be creating my character because I'm not legacy.
That's just plain not smart. The RP community is small enough as it is, and a strong effort to pull new roleplayers to Balmung despite the legacy stigma should be made and made repeatedly. Even googling "what is the unofficial ffxiv rp server" gives no clear answers to a new, non-legacy players. This is really an appalling state of affairs in my opinion and every attempt should be made to remedy it.
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Gerik - 07-10-2013
(07-10-2013, 06:09 AM)Miss Marigold Wrote: I just really hope this site continues to emphasize that Balmung is the primary RP server and that Gilgamesh is the secondary RP server.This ^
As someone coming over fresh from GW2, the recent front page post definitely does not give that impression. If I were to look at that without having previously read the forums here, I would presume that Gilgamesh is where I should be creating my character because I'm not legacy.
That's just plain not smart. The RP community is small enough as it is, and a strong effort to pull new roleplayers to Balmung despite the legacy stigma should be made and made repeatedly. Even googling "what is the unofficial ffxiv rp server" gives no clear answers to a new, non-legacy players. This is really an appalling state of affairs in my opinion and every attempt should be made to remedy it.
RE: Balmung or Gilgamesh? - Sygrina - 07-10-2013
Count me as another new player going to Balmung mostly as a matter of practicality. I say "mostly" because, well, to be honest I've never had good experiences when it comes to migrating to new servers for any reason.
Balmung is established, I have friends going there, and also have Legacy friends who want a place to revive their old characters. The Gil issue doesn't really concern me, because I've never really cared much for accruing wealth in MMOs. I could be running around in rags, unable to afford a home, but I'll still have friends, old and new, to play with.