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+--- Thread: When a player takes IC as OOC. (/showthread.php?tid=8456)
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - OttoVann - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 05:50 PM)Ckayah Tia Wrote:(10-01-2014, 03:32 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: I just try to blacklist ERPers because I just don't find it fun and I feel like it's a disgusting subject to bring up in games.This is an interesting point of view to take.
It also makes most role players look bad to non role players because non RPers always stereotype us and assume that we ERP majority of the time.Â
Futanari or not, ERP shouldn't even exist which is why I avoid those benches like plague.
As one of those disgusting ERPers, I'm especially fond of the subject because of how polarizing it is. Not because I want to make people uncomfortable (and this is why I keep my disgusting practices to /p chat and the like), but because it provides a really fascinating insight into human nature and western culture. Especially when you look at the other forms of RP that are widely accepted (killing, torture, theft, etc).
Quote:"I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much."
 -- George RR Martin
Its really not just western culture though.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Nero - 10-01-2014
The only thing I have to contribute to this topic is my personal belief that a roleplayer should care more about telling a good story than they should care about their characters.
That's obviously a sweeping generalisation that doesn't apply to everything, but it's a maxim that's good for making it look like I know what I'm doing.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - C'kayah Polaali - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 05:52 PM)CrookedTarot Wrote:Mmmm, it's mostly HBO that made that particular case of incest sexy in the mainstream. In the books? Not so much...(10-01-2014, 05:50 PM)C Wrote:Quote:"I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much."
 -- George RR Martin
To be fair, this is the same man whose written works made incest into something 'sexy' in the mainstream so...grain of salt?
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - CrookedTarot - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 05:57 PM)C Wrote:(10-01-2014, 05:52 PM)CrookedTarot Wrote:Mmmm, it's mostly HBO that made that particular case of incest sexy in the mainstream. In the books? Not so much...(10-01-2014, 05:50 PM)C Wrote:Quote:"I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much."
 -- George RR Martin
To be fair, this is the same man whose written works made incest into something 'sexy' in the mainstream so...grain of salt?
Uh, excuse me. I prefer to paint with BROAD strokes, thank you very much! Especially regarding a series of books I've never read and TV show I've never watched! This is the Internet and I am fully entitled to belittle other people morally for things I have no actual experience with!
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - C'kayah Polaali - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 05:59 PM)CrookedTarot Wrote:In that case, carry on, Sir!(10-01-2014, 05:57 PM)C Wrote:(10-01-2014, 05:52 PM)CrookedTarot Wrote:Mmmm, it's mostly HBO that made that particular case of incest sexy in the mainstream. In the books? Not so much...(10-01-2014, 05:50 PM)C Wrote:Quote:"I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much."
 -- George RR Martin
To be fair, this is the same man whose written works made incest into something 'sexy' in the mainstream so...grain of salt?
Uh, excuse me. I prefer to paint with BROAD strokes, thank you very much! Especially regarding a series of books I've never read and TV show I've never watched! This is the Internet and I am fully entitled to belittle other people morally for things I have no actual experience with!
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Aldotsk - 10-01-2014
All I am saying is that if someone asks you to OOCly (if it gets to that point) to stop, it usually means something. It's not a hint, or it's not an evasive maneuver. It means -stop- literally. Party/Private chats are perfectly fine. But we as players should also learn to accommodate for others if we have to. We -aren't- obligated, since the other people can just blacklist us, but that's not what we want within our group of friends.
Sometimes, OOC talk is necessary if you feel disturbed, or annoyed or frustrated about something. Chances are that IC character's personality is not exactly same as OOC player's personality.
Like I can be extremely psychopath deranged killer ICly and keep harassing homeless PCs and these homeless IC characters can OOCly think I am that much of a jerk OOCly by ignoring me completely. But OOCly, I could be just a nice guy trying to play as a complete opposite character to my actual persona.Â
I've had many OOC PMs about people talking to me that they don't want a tension between me and him/her OOCly, and I understand it completely and that RP is RP and OOC is OOC. Should there be a problem, then there is a PM to talk it out.
There are some -people- who'd just be a douche by ICly and OOCly being obnoxious and griefing. So there are -those- kind of people and those are people that you just blacklist and move on. If they keep stalking you, then report them.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Parvacake - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 06:07 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: All I am saying is that if someone asks you to OOCly (if it gets to that point) to stop, it usually means something. It's not a hint, or it's not an evasive maneuver. It means -stop- literally. Party/Private chats are perfectly fine. But we as players should also learn to accommodate for others if we have to. We -aren't- obligated, since the other people can just blacklist us, but that's not what we want within our group of friends.Sadly douchebaggery is going to be every where. I tend to avoid blacklisting when I can. I've only blacklisted two RPers in this game, and both were because of OOC reasons and that those people had made me uncomfortable enough as people that I didn't even want to deal with their characters.
Sometimes, OOC talk is necessary if you feel disturbed, or annoyed or frustrated about something. Chances are that IC character's personality is not exactly same as OOC player's personality.
Like I can be extremely psychopath deranged killer ICly and keep harassing homeless PCs and these homeless IC characters can OOCly think I am that much of a jerk OOCly by ignoring me completely. But OOCly, I could be just a nice guy trying to play as a complete opposite character to my actual persona.Â
I've had many OOC PMs about people talking to me that they don't want a tension between me and him/her OOCly, and I understand it completely and that RP is RP and OOC is OOC. Should there be a problem, then there is a PM to talk it out.
There are some -people- who'd just be a douche by ICly and OOCly being obnoxious and griefing. So there are -those- kind of people and those are people that you just blacklist and move on. If they keep stalking you, then report them.
Some of this goes back to what I said in an earlier post where communication can be sooooo darn important. It also can help loosely judge how a person handles certain things with RP if you drop them a line like 'Oh wow, I wonder how these interractions go! Our characters are so different!' during the IC bits and see how they respond. Sometimes you can be surprised what basic psychology can do to help gauge a player.
I've helped dodge some red flags in the earlier stages of RP by briefly poking at the player and being friendly. The example I'll use (which is honestly my only real cautionary point that I'm not willing to bend on) is when a player keeps referring to the character as if it were them. "Wow, your character was a bitch to me!" or something along those lines. I'll stop, drum my fingertips atop my desk, and think on how to handle that. Are they a new RPer? Do they realize that that kind of phrasing can give the wrong impression? Should I tell them or will I just sound like a bitch? Should I wait it out and see?
Or the question that crosses my mind on a normal basis: "Am I just over thinking things?"
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - crowmeleon - 10-01-2014
Beating a dead horse by saying that I think these have always been, and will always be problems within the community.Â
On an interesting note I guess I could bring up the example of Faolan. I really don't play him any justice because he's supposed to be a real jerkass. But IRL I'm excruciatingly nice and I struggle really playing him as the asshole with a heart of gold he's meant to be. The latter is easy. But the former? I always end up with d-bag-lite. I'm working on it though. Someone please teach me to be an asshole. When I do manage it you can guarantee I'll be spamming your pms with coddling reassurances. 'He's a real prick but I swear I'm not OOC. Please feel free to contact me at any time if you start to feel uncomfortable and I'll redirect!" and "I'M SO SORRY" every time he drops a particular toothy line. And it's partially because of the worrying OTHERS will IC/OOC mix I mellow him down unless I'm doing private rp.Â
Sometimes with squabbles I'll need some OOC conversation to make sure we're still on good terms.Â
IC/OOC mixing, particularly when the other person's priorities seem romance-bound, makes me NOPE NOPE NOPE the hell out of there faster than anything else.Â
Eh, on the ERP subject I don't really feel I can judge any rp that goes on between individuals in private. My personal opinion on the contents of that rp is a moot point. There is room in this world for both those comfortable with ERP and those who are not. We need only respect one another's preferences- Without judgement or scorn. But that goes for preferences in general. There are some things I'm not comfortable with in rp. But that's a personal preference, and I recognize that. So I can't look down on those whose rp employs those subjects. I just don't participate. Likewise, I respect that some people may not be comfortable with subjects I include in my roleplay, and never create situations in which people are forced to participate- As well as make sure they can know they can redirect or straight up drop the rp at any time they want to, no reasons needed, no strings attached. I'd rather be overzealously overprotective than unintentionally hurt someone.Â
If someone doesn't respect your boundaries they are not someone you want to be roleplaying with.
However I can understand the frustration with unexpected whispers blatantly attempting to solicit sexual roleplay. What, you're not even going to buy me dinner first? Rude.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Faye - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 03:41 PM)Jana Wrote: I think there's a distinction to be made between RPers who are okay with ERPing, ERPers, and those just looking to cyber. But that's a discussion for another thread.
That. So much that.
I don't see the point in shaming those who ERP or saying "ERP shouldn't exist." Replace ERP with "have sex" and it's much clearer how silly saying things like "I hate people who ERP" or "people shouldn't ERP" sounds. Most of us RP adult characters, and adult characters often end up in adult situations. Some of us fade to black, and some ERP, and neither choice is holier than the other. If anyone chooses not to ERP that's great! But it doesn't mean they need to tell others they can't/shouldn't ERP.
 There are those who never ERP at all or perhaps never even have characters in intimate situations, and that's super! There are those who RP and are okay with ERP if sex happens to come up in the storyline (myself being one of these, though certain OOC stipulations still have to be met otherwise I'd rather just fade to black) and if everyone OOC is a consenting adult and it's in private, that's super! There are those who RP solely for the sake of ERP and design their characters around their fetishes, and if everyone OOC is a consenting adult and it's in private, that's super! And then there are always who are just looking to cyber and ERP is a quick and easy way for them to accomplish that, and--guess what--if everyone OOC is a consenting adult and it's in private, that's super! As with most things in life, live and let be, and if you don't like something, don't do it. @Aldotsk, It's not fair to villainize anyone who ERPs just because an ERPer may have tried to force unsolicited ERP on you. That's not an ERPer, that's just a jerk ass, and there are plenty of those who don't ERP.
To try to bring this full circle back to the initial post of blurring IC/OOC and expand on what I meant in the parentheses in the above paragraph... I rarely ERP as I'm very careful/picky about who I'd ever ERP with should it arise in the RP (which it usually doesn't lol). I've had characters in romantic relationships where the other RPer has gotten a little too clingy/possessive/amorous OOC more than once, and I can only imagine how much worse it would be if sex had been in the equation. As such, I find it a good practice to communicate with the other RPer OOC extensively and spend enough time with them to learn if they'd likely be the type to bleed through.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Parvacake - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 09:42 PM)Faye Wrote: I've had characters in romantic relationships where the other RPer has gotten a little too clingy/possessive/amorous OOC more than once, and I can only imagine how much worse it would be if sex had been in the equation. As such, I find it a good practice to communicate with the other RPer OOC extensively and spend enough time with them to learn if they'd likely be the type to bleed through.*gives a big bowl full of 'like's*
Sometimes though it can still happen even after speaking with the person and thinking you know them well enough to judge that they aren't the type. Sometimes the bleeding doesn't happen until further down the line.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Lillini - 10-01-2014
I'm a little guilty of OOC affecting IC regarding my character's personality as well. Similar to crowmeleon, my character has a bit of douchebag in his personality, but I keep playing him too nice because I find it awkward OOC to be rude to a stranger (I also find IC flirting extremely embarrassing).
Mostly, I think that people who have characters very similar to them in terms of personality/likes/dislikes will have issues OOC when something happens to their character since they're too much alike, so it becomes personal. Since characters are something people spend a lot of time creating, sometimes it's easy to view the characters as your own children and you get offended if someone doesn't like them or treats them badly. I think that small, OOC bits of communication (even something as mundane as a "LOL" or a small blurb) can help alleviate this. As for ERP, well, just keep it private.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Faye - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 10:18 PM)Lilithium Wrote:(10-01-2014, 09:42 PM)Faye Wrote: I've had characters in romantic relationships where the other RPer has gotten a little too clingy/possessive/amorous OOC more than once, and I can only imagine how much worse it would be if sex had been in the equation. As such, I find it a good practice to communicate with the other RPer OOC extensively and spend enough time with them to learn if they'd likely be the type to bleed through.*gives a big bowl full of 'like's*
Sometimes though it can still happen even after speaking with the person and thinking you know them well enough to judge that they aren't the type. Sometimes the bleeding doesn't happen until further down the line.
Very true! You never know people 100%, or sometimes people just change.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - allgivenover - 10-02-2014
Definatly need to keep in mind the distinction between RPers that are ok with RP that could be labeled ERP (I say could be because I've had Rakka'li engage with characters despite my being bored with it OOC because he has poor impulse control, though that's not the other RPers fault that I was bored) and people who just want to cybersex with limited context.
I will never tire of how amusing that disparity is. Violence, thievery, torture, kidnapping, and even rape-as-backstory is fine and never illicits the same amount of judgement and disgust as ERP. It's fine if you don't want to engage, but try not to be on a highhorse about it.
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Zyrusticae - 10-02-2014
(10-02-2014, 12:04 AM)allgivenover Wrote: I will never tire of how amusing that disparity is. Violence, thievery, torture, kidnapping, and even rape-as-backstory is fine and never illicits the same amount of judgement and disgust as ERP. It's fine if you don't want to engage, but try not to be on a highhorse about it.Yuuuuup.
It's one thing to just not be interested in it, but, well, quite frankly being disgusted by it speaks to some pretty deep-seated issues and some possibly unhealthy attitudes about sex in general. I mean... people fug. In fact, people fug a lot. Some people do it every day, and not always with the same person. That's just a fact of life. As far as I'm concerned, if no one's getting hurt, there's really nothing objectionable about it.
I can't even begin to imagine how to run someone with such a strong attitude about sex through therapy, so I won't even try, but I would really strongly suggest anyone with such attitudes to think deeply on why they feel the way they do, at the very least. It's not cool to call other people disgusting just for doing something that comes naturally to them.
And speaking more to the topic, I will personally refrain from taking myself and my character into any intimately personal relationships as a matter of principle. It's nothing personal. I just got burned by such relationships in the past and would rather protect myself than put myself through that kind of emotional turmoil again. If I ever do engage in ERP it's going to be of the one-night stand variety, and I hope no one takes that personally (if you do, I'm sorry).
RE: When a player takes IC as OOC. - Erik Mynhier - 10-02-2014
![[Image: hqdefault.jpg]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yRHjY0ayQ4M/hqdefault.jpg)
Ok, read the whole thing...... here we go with my unwanted opinion.
1. IC/OOC Bleed
This happens to alot of RPers, that has been said 58 times in this thread alone I am sure. When you spend hours on end... days, weeks, months pretending to be this amazing person you made, you can forget its all a game. A game effecting you is not cool for you, you deserve better. Now old Papa Erik has been RPing since the days of yore, in the lands of Tables and Doritos, in the ancient 80's and he has learned a trick or two to handle this bleed. You push so much of your personality and life experiences through the character that the bleed goes the other way. This shields you a bit from IC drama, though on a bad day it can be less fun for characters you roll with, but if that's the case you probably don't feel like logging anyway. If your cranky, its ok for your toon to be cranky, but never ok for something in game to effect you. If that happens, log out, go see a flick or something and force yourself to stay out until you have fixed your head. I don't say this to be mean, I say it because I care. A game should never effect your real life in a negative way, if it does, its time to log out.
2. OOC Guidance
"So uh.... his RP sucks.... Should we, IDK, tell him nicely he sucks?"
No, no, no, no, no, no, nonononononononononoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't be that guy, don't be a RP snob and tell someone they suck, no matter how much they suck, no matter how far in left field they are from the lore. You know why? Because its not your place to tell another paying player they suck, no matter how nice. Now here is what you do.... or what I do. If you see a sucky RPer.... become their friend. Don't let them know you think they suck, just friend them. Now what you say? Add them to your story, let them watch you, and others interact. Unless they are braindamaged they will catch on, and what do you know, they are better because you lead by example instead of OOC correcting them like a dick, to which they ignored you anyway. Keeping quality in a server is the responsibility of every player, SE or Freelance Wizard isn't going to do it for us. You heard the lady, "Let those who walk before, lead those who walk after." Its in the damn theme song people. Lead, don't lecture.
3. ERP
I am a 34 year old man living in the US. I.... love.... sex. I said it. Now that said, ERP is not my cup of tea often. It has to be 1. with someone of trust and quality, 2. someone who won't IC/OOC bleed from it, 3. make sense for the character and the moment. That's a high bar, and to date in this game it has only been cleared by 2 players. It happens, and as stated its no big deal unless you have some issues, which is ok if you do. It has been my experience that most ERPer on this server are pretty good about it. They stick to PMs or try to find a quiet out of the way place and try not to be trouble. Sure the QS gets pretty blue late at night, but for the most part other MMOs have it much worse. Hell, the Ebonheart Pact areas are basically open world whore houses on TESO. Now as for the.... creative stuff, again, who are we to judge? Is it lore breaking? That question..... um.... no it is not. There is nowhere in the Lore that forbids you getting creative with your biological makeup. There was no mission in 1.0 where the Flame General specifically said "There Shall Be But One Winky Per Man, And One Clam Per Lady.... SO SAITH THE LORE!" There are transgender people in real life. There are hermaphrodites in real life. There are gay people in real life. Real life is amazing because its crazy random, enjoy it. If someone wants to play a character that some would call "abnormal", well good for them. Like Mama Mynhier use to tell her baby boy, "If you and I were the same, they would only need one of us." If it gets to weird for me that's what Blist is for. Don't sweat the Lore, you'll be happier and live longer.
4. Conclusion
We are all cool folks here. I don't have to tell you, many of whom have walked the winding roads of MMO cesspool communities enough to know we have a pretty good thing going here for us. I've never been in a place this nice, where players get along. That said I am noticing cracks in this community on our happy little Balmung. I cannot be the only one to notice the heat spiking more and more here on these forums, the clicks forming in-game. Its bad ladies and gentlemen. Its bad because it will ruin it. We all are people behind the screens, we are all friends. If you saw me on the street you would be like "DUDE!" And I would to you. We all have to pay that $15 a month, but we don't have to play the same. I can play my spy game while you play your cop game, while she plays her ERP game. Its cool, you know why? Because its cool thats why. We are all friends and this server and community is big enough for all of us. Its a game, what happens ingame is ingame, but we are cool people, because we chose to become friends here. We post pics of ourselves, talk about updates, chat about our real lives in PM. We care about the people behind the screen, that's the good kind of IC/OOC bleed, we care. So let's take that with us, lets get along and make the other RP communities say "I wish our community was cool like their's." And let us not forget the words of the great ones as we go forth....