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+--- Thread: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? (/showthread.php?tid=9094)
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Kellach Woods - 12-04-2014
If you're actually doing something to avoid it/deflect/etc. then no it wouldn't be I think.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Warren Castille - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 09:05 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: If you're actually doing something to avoid it/deflect/etc. then no it wouldn't be I think.
I abide by the Exalted rules of superpowered combat: Perfect defenses trump perfect attacks, full stop.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Berrod Armstrong - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 09:06 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:Unless you apply the rule of 'get one's ass beaten one-sidedly until someone talks about the power of friendship'...(12-04-2014, 09:05 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: If you're actually doing something to avoid it/deflect/etc. then no it wouldn't be I think.
I abide by the Exalted rules of superpowered combat: Perfect defenses trump perfect attacks, full stop.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Gegenji - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 09:19 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:(12-04-2014, 09:06 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:Unless you apply the rule of 'get one's ass beaten one-sidedly until someone talks about the power of friendship'...(12-04-2014, 09:05 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: If you're actually doing something to avoid it/deflect/etc. then no it wouldn't be I think.
I abide by the Exalted rules of superpowered combat: Perfect defenses trump perfect attacks, full stop.
Shoot. You've cracked Chachan's battle plan. Abort, ABORT.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Oli! - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 09:20 AM)Gegenji Wrote:(12-04-2014, 09:19 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:(12-04-2014, 09:06 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:Unless you apply the rule of 'get one's ass beaten one-sidedly until someone talks about the power of friendship'...(12-04-2014, 09:05 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: If you're actually doing something to avoid it/deflect/etc. then no it wouldn't be I think.
I abide by the Exalted rules of superpowered combat: Perfect defenses trump perfect attacks, full stop.
Shoot. You've cracked Chachan's battle plan. Abort, ABORT.
FOOL
YOU DON'T ABORT IN THIS SITUATION, THAT'S WHAT HAX ARE FOR
WHAT KIND OF MASTERMIND ARE YOU
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Kage - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 09:41 AM)Oli! Wrote:Chachan! Here is your HAX!(12-04-2014, 09:20 AM)Gegenji Wrote:(12-04-2014, 09:19 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:(12-04-2014, 09:06 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:Unless you apply the rule of 'get one's ass beaten one-sidedly until someone talks about the power of friendship'...(12-04-2014, 09:05 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: If you're actually doing something to avoid it/deflect/etc. then no it wouldn't be I think.
I abide by the Exalted rules of superpowered combat: Perfect defenses trump perfect attacks, full stop.
Shoot. You've cracked Chachan's battle plan. Abort, ABORT.
FOOL
YOU DON'T ABORT IN THIS SITUATION, THAT'S WHAT HAX ARE FOR
WHAT KIND OF MASTERMIND ARE YOU
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Inessa Hara - 12-04-2014
*wonders what Chaos I walked into*
>_>
*walks right back out, lol.*
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Yssen - 12-04-2014
(12-01-2014, 05:24 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: That, though, opens up interesting concepts. The title "Dragoon" is only bestowed on people who kill dragons officially. Not everyone killing dragons uses a spear, nor do all of them done the armor. There's a whole frontline in Whitebrim where a FATE spawns and you've got elezen in sword and shield running to defend. If Jump is just martial prowess magnified by aether, it stands to reason that anybody would be able to learn the attack.Not tryng to be mean here, but Heavensward trailer. Three Dragoons in the AF armor with Gaelbolgs. Yes, other people fight Dragoons different ways in Ishgard, they are not Dragoons. Dragoons are best part of the fighting elite of Ishgard. They are called in when the Astronomers read where a Dravian attack is going to be. They are the crazy bastards that say "Yeeeah. We do not need cannons and junk. We just need this spear, our armor, and our training." If you want a separate fictional parallel, think of them like the soldiers in "Attack on Titan."Â
As for the arguments against jump being a realistic combat tactic. Can you jump 15 ft in the air really fast? Or back flip several yards away from something in an instant? No? Cool, then how can you make the argument against what could realistically be applied as a technique given that the ability to do so is possible? The same argument can be applied to a MNKs Shoulder Tackle. Taking that as an example, the MNK closes a pretty big distance in an instant. Are you going to stand their while you see the MNK dashing? No. Why can't a Dragoon's jump be just as fast?
The point has been made already. Suspend disbelief. Accept that by the time your character knows a Dragoon turned themselves into a human bullet by jumping, they are likely about to skewer you with a spear. They are fast. They have to be, they fight big dragons that move at not a snails pace (as much as we wish that were so). If you are not going to suspend disbelief about Jump, why should anyone suspend disbelief about any other Job or class abilities. No fireballs from BLMs, No PLDs or WARs shrugging off the massive rock slides and fire eruptions of Primals (or any of the other things do similar), No MNKs being able to punch creatures made of stone/metal effectively at all, and certainly no being instantly healed by WHMs and SCHs. It is a slippery slope to pick ANYTHING that exists as a part core concept of the world and say "Nope. Unrealistic. I do not accept." Lets try not to go cherry picking down that road.
Two gil registered. ^ ^
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Warren Castille - 12-04-2014
I see you just want to nitpick some things without reading the last two times I answered these EXACT nitpicks. That's cool.
A dragoon's jump cannot be fast because, while you keep banging on about "suspension of disbelief," gravity is a fundamental force. Jumping up in the air really fast doesn't make you fall any faster. In order to reach the speeds implied by the job ability itself, you'd need to be freefalling (or gliding via the spikes/fin concept) at speeds that would still be impractical. I get it, blah blah blah magic. Stop going on about black mages and their fireballs because aether as a resource is already explained. We know how mages shoot fireballs. We know how white mages channel succor. We know how monks move really fast (there's a whooole world of chakra stuff the story only begins to discuss). We do not know how dragoons suddenly gain the ability to defy all present game physics and concepts because they kill dragons.
I don't even know what to make of Midlander in the trailer, to be quite honest. Given Ishgard's stance on how important their dragoons are and how difficult/impossible it is for outsiders to attain that title, does that mean Midlander is THE Azure Dragoon? Well, no, because the NPC dialogue says the Holy See doesn't recognize this generation as having one currently. Will that change come 3.0? Maybe.
Also, your smoking gun about three dragoons in AF and wielding Gae Bolgs doesn't really seem relevant here. We've known for a year or more now that those aren't super rare. That still doesn't mean all people recognized with the "dragoon" title use spears.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Berrod Armstrong - 12-04-2014
![[Image: tumblr_inline_ncc83rI8oK1qhg0kw.gif]](https://media.tumblr.com/d0f04186bcab1f4ca3087dad7170af98/tumblr_inline_ncc83rI8oK1qhg0kw.gif)
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Dogberry - 12-04-2014
I cheated. Dogberry has magitek legs. I did it more to create an Ahab comparison than to handwave Dogberry's jumping, but it's convenient.
Even then, I never picture Dogberry jumping as high as he does in the animation. I picture him jumping more like he's flying from the top turnbuckle of a wrestling ring and putting as much of his weight on his spear as possible. He's not so much flying through the air as using his legs to throw himself onto the enemy like The Macho Man.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Gegenji - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 11:50 AM)Dogberry Wrote: I cheated. Dogberry has magitek legs. I did it more to create an Ahab comparison than to handwave Dogberry's jumping, but it's convenient.
Even then, I never picture Dogberry jumping as high as he does in the animation. I picture him jumping more like he's flying from the top turnbuckle of a wrestling ring and putting as much of his weight on his spear as possible. He's not so much flying through the air as using his legs to throw himself onto the enemy like The Macho Man.
We can rebuild him. We have the magiteknology. He'll be stronger. Faster. Jumpier. More Randy Savage than ever before.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Dogberry - 12-04-2014
Steve Austin was The $6,000,000 Man, so he'd have to be more like Stone Cold, I guess.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Warren Castille - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 11:50 AM)Dogberry Wrote: I cheated. Dogberry has magitek legs. I did it more to create an Ahab comparison than to handwave Dogberry's jumping, but it's convenient.
Even then, I never picture Dogberry jumping as high as he does in the animation. I picture him jumping more like he's flying from the top turnbuckle of a wrestling ring and putting as much of his weight on his spear as possible. He's not so much flying through the air as using his legs to throw himself onto the enemy like The Macho Man.
(12-04-2014, 08:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: it's as-reasonable a defense as you're going to get against physics-defying flying pinpoint-precise rocket jumps fueled by inner-dragons-and-or-aether.
(12-04-2014, 11:50 AM)Dogberry Wrote: I cheated. Dogberry has magitek legs.
Welp. My argument is undone. Ring the bell, stop the damn match.
RE: Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon? - Dogberry - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 11:57 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:(12-04-2014, 11:50 AM)Dogberry Wrote: I cheated. Dogberry has magitek legs. I did it more to create an Ahab comparison than to handwave Dogberry's jumping, but it's convenient.
Even then, I never picture Dogberry jumping as high as he does in the animation. I picture him jumping more like he's flying from the top turnbuckle of a wrestling ring and putting as much of his weight on his spear as possible. He's not so much flying through the air as using his legs to throw himself onto the enemy like The Macho Man.
(12-04-2014, 08:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: it's as-reasonable a defense as you're going to get against physics-defying flying pinpoint-precise rocket jumps fueled by inner-dragons-and-or-aether.
(12-04-2014, 11:50 AM)Dogberry Wrote: I cheated. Dogberry has magitek legs.
Welp. My argument is undone. Ring the bell, stop the damn match.
I don't know, I'm pretty much with you. And I recognize that it makes my character a bit special snowflakey to have these metal legs that basically give him super powers. Though it did involve me playing a bedridden character for a few weeks, and a major recovery process once he got them. Plus, the deal he had to make to even get them and how they illustrate his willingness to make just about any deal that he feels will bring him closer to revenge. Even still, magic robot legs. I totally understand any kind of accusation of snowflakeyness leveled at me for that.