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+--- Thread: [Discussion] Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead (/showthread.php?tid=17480)
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Oli! - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 10:14 PM)Kilieit Wrote: Oh God, if it turns out to be a typo from 300 I'm gonna... throw something.
Wouldn't mean as much as would be desired unless the "surviving 10" is supposed to be "surviving 100."
That'll still be a wrench in the works for many otherwise.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Kilieit - 10-16-2016
Still leaves more wiggle-room for people to have quit / been honourably discharged due to injury / etc in the wake of the Final Chorus - it means it's possible for people to have been actively serving dragoons, just that they now have to find a way for their story to make it so they aren't any longer.
The reason I'm so un-fond of this decision is because a couple of my good friends are faced with the decision of either:
a) flat out going against the lore, which they've tried very hard to adhere to up 'til now, from here on out; or,
b) retconning every piece of RP they've done about their character being a dragoon... which is most of what they've done in the last 2 years. In other words, scrap the character, notify all the character's friends that they never existed, and reroll them. I'm not talking about people whose characters have a dragoon job "because they think it's cool" (I'm sure these people exist, but I've not met any) - I'm talking about people whose character's central identity is being Ishgardian, being a dragoon, and serving Ishgard by being a dragoon.
At least if there's 300 and not 30, there's a tiny bit more room for there to be no need for retcons in people's RP - just changes going forward. It's much more workable from an RP continuity standpoint.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Kellach Woods - 10-16-2016
Lest ye forget, you have a very specific mention that a certain moogle used to do the same shit a Dragoon did.
So uh, yeah.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Virella - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 10:14 PM)Kilieit Wrote:The spelling errors are really just terrible(10-16-2016, 10:12 PM)V Wrote: This is an odd decision, and I'm curious to see if it stands once Koji comments on the various errors present in the book.
Oh God, if it turns out to be a typo from 300 I'm gonna... throw something.
Probably a party for my poor dragoon friends? xD
I still want to know what a Monk temple seolc-house is supposed to be :l Because I'm Dutch I was like "Huuuh, I don't know this word." So I've poked my English native martial art friend (cuz she's my go to for like Monk stuff), and she just goes "Uuuuuuh?" and then my FC proceeded to sit there and go "UUUUH?"
![[Image: 0290653d972111a570ab6314ec3a7898.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/0290653d972111a570ab6314ec3a7898.png)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Gerel Kha - 10-16-2016
"Seolc" is apparently another word for "silk." Huh. Anyway, I'm not really gonna weigh in on the Dragoon revelations--most of the points I would've addressed/added have been stated. I'll just hope there's clarifications and-or revisions due to localization errors.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - AlionLucada - 10-16-2016
Instead of being a Dragoon, be a soldier of Ishgard who skillfully uses a lance. You can give your characters pretty much the same skills and background for a lot of the Classes/Jobs without actually using the name and treading dangerous canonical ground.
It's just safer to avoid putting your characters into any story based organizations, and I'm surprised (and also not) that some people continue to be surprised by things like this.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Momo - 10-16-2016
I don't think it was an error, there are some errors in there of course, because of translation and sheer speed needed to finish, but none of them which glaringly change an entire fact.
There are risks to choosing a job like this one, but in the end, if all the Dragoon RPers got together and decided a way in which they would all like to continue with some sort of universal community canon, I don't see anyone arguing to heavily against it.
Things to note:
~Dragoon soulstones are from the Sixth Astral Era, this fact being because the founding of Ishgard, and the settling of Elezen in Coerthas took place during this period of time.Â
~Soulstones, and the instilling of aether and the nuances of the self into crystal, have been around since the Rise of the Allagan Empire, and have never diminished since then even if the methods have been lost and recovered or changed in some way.
As has been mentioned, it doesn't say there is a limit to the amount of DRG soulstones, and in the case of the WoL themselves, it was received by someone who was allowed to keep the one they used and pass it on. So 30 doesn't limit much outside of the official office within Ishgard. Â
Sorry to say, but having been a summoner for some time now, and a Paladin before that, Dragoons will simply have to go our way, and take up a wayward soulstone from chance or by self-assumed fate, to then take on the job which they were working towards as a Lancer. It isn't always glamorous, or well accepted by everyone, but it also isn't against lore, just unlikely more than anything. Do what you want, within reason!
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Virella - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 10:49 PM)Gerel Kha Wrote: "Seolc" is apparently another word for "silk." Huh. Anyway, I'm not really gonna weigh in on the Dragoon revelations--most of the points I would've addressed/added have been stated. I'll just hope there's clarifications and-or revisions due to localization errors.I LOVE YOU
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Caspar - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 09:52 PM)AlionLucada Wrote: I doubt this is the case, but I hope this serves as a lesson for people who feel the need to RP something exclusive and rare in a games canon. If you can't come up with something interesting without slapping on a "oh also they're a member of a super exclusive and secretive order and they kill god beasts" you need to bone up on your RP 101.The same logic could be applied to the improbably numerous Garlean spies.
I feel the same way about seeing people who RP Garleans of such high ranks that they'd be rubbing elbows with the likes of Gaius and Nael or ruling over their own castrum. Think small and nuanced, not grand and braggy when it comes to your characters.
Ultimately, what players want to do is use the concept that they feel best about making a story framework in. If that is mundane or distinctive, so much the better. There is no inherent value in either. The only thing you can do is hedge your bets and be ready to retcon if something does fly your way. Exclusivity may in some cases make it more likely, but it means little more than that.
Also lol @ the Temple Cyclas being essentially Ripple-friendly cloth. It's not Sathiphorosia Beetle leg-muscle thread, but still reminds me of Jojo quite a bit.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - V'aleera - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 11:10 PM)Momo Wrote: I don't think it was an error, there are some errors in there of course, because of translation and sheer speed needed to finish, but none of them which glaringly change an entire fact.The lore book says that Nunh are leaders in Seeker tribes as a standard in direct contradiction to the original lore post.
It also literally reverses Keeper naming conventions.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Aden Dellebecque - 10-16-2016
I went through the trouble of finding a player character teacher who had an established background as a Dragoon, and went through that RP. It was always my intent to only play a capital D Dragoon if I could manage to do that legwork--and I did. That's that.
If this had been said for any other job with a thriving RP community around it, I would tell them the same--find a way around it. If people refuse to RP with you because you are continuing the RP you've been doing for months or years, it's their loss.
I'll personally be operating under the "active service" theory, because thirty is an absolutely unsustainable number. It would mean Ishgard was always one really bad morning in the chow hall away from the death of the order.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Caspar - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 10:49 PM)Gerel Kha Wrote: "Seolc" is apparently another word for "silk." Huh. Anyway, I'm not really gonna weigh in on the Dragoon revelations--most of the points I would've addressed/added have been stated. I'll just hope there's clarifications and-or revisions due to localization errors.Sheesh, who came up with that term, an Ixali?
I wonder how many other errors will be in the Lore book. It may not be as ironclad of a source as we'd hoped.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Momo - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 11:19 PM)V Wrote:(10-16-2016, 11:10 PM)Momo Wrote: I don't think it was an error, there are some errors in there of course, because of translation and sheer speed needed to finish, but none of them which glaringly change an entire fact.The lore book says that Nunh are leaders in Seeker tribes as a standard in direct contradiction to the original lore post.
It also literally reverses Keeper naming conventions.
The reversed naming convention is likely because of the Japanese>>English translation, and the Nuhn was probably just a copy mistake. That in no way, invalidates most of the lore in the book. I wouldn't use established facts like these, which are clearly just little mistakes, to discount everything else. 30 is low yes, but Dragoons have great abilities beyond that of many other Knights. And from what we could see, Dragoons weren't always or even majorly, the battlers of Dragons in the Dragonsong War CSs we have.
I think that SE is deliberately trying to keep them capped low, so that the WoL as a DRG and Estinien seem more exceptional. Not to mention, with their skill at killing dragons, it is possible, they were only rolled out at moments of great need, or as in the case of Estinien, they have their own orders or do tasks as they deem necessary. I didn't do the DRG quests myself, but suffice it to say, it seems like they weren't all that telling about the actual state of the order.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - V'aleera - 10-16-2016
I'm not trying to invalidate the book, I'm just pointing out some egregious errors that need to be addressed.
This feels like the Warcraft UVG all over again.
RE: Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead - Sig - 10-17-2016
...Call me a heretic, but FFXIV lore, considering its extreme ambiguity and after-the-fact implementation, is meant to be bent to facilitate tasteful roleplay and story telling.
Dragoons should not allow a two sentence excerpt from a recently published lore book destroy characters and limit RP.Â
This isn't a federal statute enacted by congress. It's the product of one or two members of the FFXIV "lore team."
Bend that lore with impunity.