+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') (/showthread.php?tid=11487)
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Kage - 05-07-2015
People are always so focused on lore they forget that there's so many other reasons that people can find to not want to RP with someone and in my mind the best answer is to just walk away. You don't make snide comments. You don't pester them like a certain Lion over tells. You don't assume that IC questions are purely for OOC reasons. There's so many other people to RP with no matter what your stance is that why waste the time about worrying what they think, unless they are your best friend or RP partner?
Some people don't want to Rp with mafia like organizations. Some people don't want to RP with long, angsty plots.
There's plenty of other people willing to to RP with a Disciple of War lalafell.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - LiadansWhisper - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 02:32 PM)Kage Wrote: People are always so focused on lore they forget that there's so many other reasons that people can find to not want to RP with someone and in my mind the best answer is to just walk away. You don't make snide comments. You don't pester them like a certain Lion over tells. You don't assume that IC questions are purely for OOC reasons. There's so many other people to RP with no matter what your stance is that why waste the time about worrying what they think, unless they are your best friend or RP partner?
Some people don't want to Rp with mafia like organizations. Some people don't want to RP with long, angsty plots.
There's plenty of other people willing to to RP with a Disciple of War lalafell.
Agreed. Â Although, it would probably be helpful if people didn't get upset OOC when a character was confrontational or antagonistic.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Gegenji - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 02:03 PM)Verad Wrote:(05-07-2015, 02:01 PM)Gegenji Wrote: What I would see as the incorrect way to go about it is to try to force your viewpoint on the other person. Either demanding they "loosen up" and accept your character or berating them because of this or that stated in the lore.
This would require that roleplayers stop viewing roleplay in dogmatic terms (seriously, arguing over differing "interpretations" of lore as if they were a religious scripture as often as our people do implies a kind of dogmatism). I don't think that can happen.
Which is a pity, really.
... I'm trying to be as neutral about this as I can to expound on this, but I'm finding issue in doing so. So please keep in mind this is personal opinion on the matter of "RP (and RP concepts) you don't like" and how it seems to be addressed most commonly as of late.
It seems that this ongoing conflict between those that like to stick to the lore (which is not wrong) and those that like to play fast and loose with it (also not wrong) and how they interact with one another is the leading cause of a lot of discussion threads devolving into sniping and passive aggressive comments. This seems to be because the standard fallback response to a potential RP situation (that your character might never even come across) is not to ignore it or offer constructive criticism but to argue about it.
And it all devolves to one simple point: you can't prove that they can do something, just as much as you can't prove that they can't. Take the ever-controversial Miqo'te Dragoon argument (being used merely for reference here and is not in any way to be used to devolve this thread into an argument about its validity), for instance. What, exactly, in the lore says 100% that a Miqo'te could be an Ishgardian Dragoon? And what, exactly, in the lore says 100% that one can't?
The lore is generously vague on many of this points - either purposefully or not - which allows all sorts of concepts to be played and they are all valid within the context of the world as it is presented. Do you have to be comfortable with it? No. But that doesn't mean someone is wrong for wanting to have their fun in that way.
The only thing you have true dominion over is your own character. What they do and how they interact with the world around them. Just as everyone else has that same dominion over their own characters. So, when these two dominions interact, it is on both of them to decide how to handle the situation.
If neither side has issue with the other's concept and it doesn't conflict with their comfort levels? Cool! RP! Have a good time.
If there IS an issue? Then it is something that needs to be addressed in a civil manner. Whether it's politely ducking out to avoid the conflict or "retconning" the event in your own headcanon after the fact. Someone may not be comfortable cleaving so close to the lore... or dealing with an inter-dimensional traveler... and that's okay! It's (should) not be a matter of someone disliking you or your approach to playing the game! It's just not something they're comfortable dealing with - which I would assume is a courtesy you would like extended to you in kind if the roles are reversed.
If you're not sure? ASK. Send them a /tell! Maybe the character is not being a jerk because the player thinks Miqo'te can't be Dragoons! Maybe that character is just naturally antagonistic! As always, healthy communication is always the key!
And on the forums? I, personally, would like to see less adamant "you can't be this because..." and more "the lore says this, BUT..." and offer creative alternatives! And I'd love to see the free-spirits not get onto the lore-oriented folks when they mention said lore snippets. Instead, I would love to see anecdotes on how they explain away whatever degree of lore-bending they do when pressed on the matter and further help the person who has the idea be prepared when they bring it into the world of Hydaelyn.
That's how I react to react to RP (and potential RP concepts) I don't like - I either live and let live... or try and be constructive! Suggestions that aren't "you are bad and should feel bad" and more "hey, I have an idea to help make your concept work!" Which, I will openly admit, is itself a flawed approach - since their concept doesn't have to "work." The suggestion is being offered in my own (perhaps egotistical) attempt to help them be able to present the character to the widest spread of player types and - in doing so - maybe help to widen their RP options across that increased spectrum.
Dear God did I get rambly. And I likely lost my own train of thought here and there in the spiel... but I hope that paints a decent enough picture on how I personally feel dealing with disliked RP/RP concepts should be handled. Your mileage may vary. Or something. My head hurts.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - LiadansWhisper - 05-07-2015
I mean, this really all comes down to, "Don't be a dick. Â If someone else's RP violates your beliefs about the Lore, or really gets on your nerves, don't play with them."
Real simple. Â Don't bitch at them. Â Don't attack them in tells. Â Just leave and avoid them in the future.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Cailean Lockwood - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 03:11 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I mean, this really all comes down to, "Don't be a dick. Â If someone else's RP violates your beliefs about the Lore, or really gets on your nerves, don't play with them."
Real simple. Â Don't bitch at them. Â Don't attack them in tells. Â Just leave and avoid them in the future.
Absolutely agree. ^^
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Melkire - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 02:44 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Although, it would probably be helpful if people didn't get upset OOC when a character was confrontational or antagonistic.
I've had this happen once before. Matters between certain characters got heated, the folks on one side of the divide weren't upset OoC at all... but it turned out that the confrontation actually did upset, OoC, those on the other side of the IC dispute, largely because said confrontation turned nasty in a way that "triggered" them, to use the contemporary term. It was a landmine that most of us weren't aware of. It took some time for them to recover, and some OoC discussion to reassure the folks in question that we weren't genuinely upset OoC, that we'd merely been playing the parts of our characters. Even now, I don't think that message sunk in as well as expected, because it's still awkward running into and/or conversing with said folk.
Shit happens.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - SicketySix - 05-07-2015
I would flat out ignore them, the same way I ignore people who try to talk to me that I don't like. My solution is pretty simple actually.....
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Aaron - 05-07-2015
Just another two cents. As a person who has a knack for writing descriptive lore myself and has even studied the lore of many sources (Anime, All the star wars and to a lesser extent, some FF games) I noticed no lore is ever 100% non ambiguous. A lot of gray areas are left open to promote imagination of the stories setting.Â
So the lore addicts are in themselves really are setting themselves up for failure if they're trying to stick 100% to lore as that's the thing, there's always a gray area somewhere.
That coupled with the fact even a group as large as SE has shown even together making lore that they cant always keep it consistent and air tight. Take Advent Children or Crisis Core compared to the original FF7.
In crisis core at the end Cloud was fully healthy on top of the train with no signs of mako poisoning. Yet at the beginning of FF7 he was a vegetable in a wheel chair found by Tifa.
In FF7 all the remnants were dead. In Advent Children suddenly 3 more equipped with cell phones guns and bikes appear. Does that suddenly mean lore wise remnants weren't all dead?
Writing air tight lore is damn near impossible for a group let alone one person. So if people want to slightly bend the lore why are others getting on their case?
Im not choosing sides but from what I read from the last few posts people seem to argue about following lore just because they want to argue.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - FreelanceWizard - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote: Im not choosing sides but from what I read from the last few posts people seem to argue about following lore just because they want to argue.
I don't know if that's a fair characterization of it. I think people enjoy debating the relative pros and cons of different levels of "strictness" with regards to lore, and how this impacts one's access to RP and creative freedom -- and how you can come to a resolution where everyone has fun.
Personally (and this is totally me as a fellow RPer, not as the admin, speaking), I don't think it's helpful for people to label each other as "lore Nazis" or "lore breakers" or what have you. We're all on a continuum that ranges from "absolutely strict adherence to lore, insofar as if it's not explicitly stated as possible in quest dialog in game, it's not possible, so how dare you RP that your character learned how to swing a sword from his father instead of the Gladiator's Guild" to "anything goes, and here's my half-vampire, half-werewolf genetically engineered love child of Cloud and Gaius van Baelsar." In between these caricature extremes, people have different levels of tolerance for different interpretations and how big the grey areas in lore actually are.
One rather annoying thing that happened back on CoH's official forums for the Virtue server is that the "lore-strict" group decided to never RP with the "lore-lenient" group, and so the lore-lenient group decided to troll and mock the lore-strict group whenever possible. The two groups never had discussions like these to try to reconcile and find common ground. That's... not really helpful or beneficial, in my mind. There's room enough for everyone, and there are stories that can be told without even so much as getting close to a lore boundary.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - allgivenover - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote: In crisis core at the end Cloud was fully healthy on top of the train with no signs of mako poisoning. Yet at the beginning of FF7 he was a vegetable in a wheel chair found by Tifa.
In FF7 all the remnants were dead. In Advent Children suddenly 3 more equipped with cell phones guns and bikes appear. Does that suddenly mean lore wise remnants weren't all dead?
Way off topic, but what? You're way off on your VII continuity and lore. Cloud wasn't a vegetable until way later in the story, not the beginning, and three new characters from Advent Children are not remnants from original story, they're manifestations of Sephiroth's will in the lifestream.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Edda - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 06:04 PM)allgivenover Wrote:Cloud was in a vegetable-like state up until the events leading to Zack's death. Once he died Cloud was... magically better! And jumping on trains and shit! And then he vegetable'd again with the whole wheelchair fiasco but seriously now(05-07-2015, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote: In crisis core at the end Cloud was fully healthy on top of the train with no signs of mako poisoning. Yet at the beginning of FF7 he was a vegetable in a wheel chair found by Tifa.
In FF7 all the remnants were dead. In Advent Children suddenly 3 more equipped with cell phones guns and bikes appear. Does that suddenly mean lore wise remnants weren't all dead?
Way off topic, but what? You're way off on your VII continuity and lore. Cloud wasn't a vegetable until way later in the story, not the beginning, and three new characters from Advent Children are not remnants from original story, they're manifestations of Sephiroth's will in the lifestream.
/derail
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - allgivenover - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 06:08 PM)Edda Wrote: Cloud was in a vegetable-like state up until the events leading to Zack's death. Once he died Cloud was... magically better! And jumping on trains and shit! And then he vegetable'd again with the whole wheelchair fiasco but seriously now
/derail
/re-derail
There's no hole in the story, the ending to Crisis Core is months before VII. Cloud was already coming out of his vegetative state by the end of it, that's more than enough time for him to recover and start his crazy identity crisis.
Not here to argue the merits of the story, but "being healthy at the end of Crisis Core and in a wheelchair at the start of VII" and the children being remnants is way way off and not examples of SE making retcons.
/end-derail
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Warren Castille - 05-07-2015
NERDS.
/redererail
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Kage - 05-07-2015
Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Unnamed Mercenary - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 07:02 PM)Kage Wrote: Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....
I'm a Garlean that uses magic. A pure-blooded Garlean. Fight me.