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+--- Thread: On Age (/showthread.php?tid=10430)
RE: On Age - Gaspard - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 03:11 AM)Clement Janvier Wrote: If you had kids, would you want them exposed to this kind of thing? Biology aside, we are living in the year 2015 and there are laws. Sure you can examine why you are uncomfortable but honestly you should be uncomfortable. If it's not the age that makes you uncomfortable, let it be the law that makes you uncomfortable. How would you feel, knowing your children were online and being mentally violated? Sure you can twist it any way you like to make yourself comfortable, but the bottom line is it is illegal.Â
Consider your uncomfortable feeling biology, too. I'd like to think we've evolved with a fear of prison. I don't need to say why. The natural uncomfortable feeling of 'do I want to risk my entire life and well-being over a fictional fantasy world'? That's a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to be uncomfortable about.
BUT CLEMENT! WE NEED PROOF! WE NEED PROOF THAT THE LAWS ARE BEING ENFORCED!
Very well then. Keep in mind that these cases are under reported and not as detailed simply to defend the identities of children. It's difficult for me to even find these urls and they might be considered flimsy by some.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/04/blizzard-to-patrol-moon-guards-goldshire-for-harassment-erotic/
http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/17/blizzard-disbands-extreme-erotic-roleplaying-guild/
I know, I know, there are no exact cases and names here. But big soulless corporations like blizzard do not pull this kind of shit unless people are making a lot of noise about it. And legally they can give the police all the information they need when one of these cases does pop up in court. Logs are, in fact, kept. I would honestly laugh if squeenix didn't keep logs of what we're up to. Maybe they don't. Maybe they do. Would you want to risk it?
http://www.geek.com/games/drug-dealer-flees-police-only-to-be-caught-in-world-of-warcraft-1041412/
I can tell you that if squeenix were presented with a subpoena they would be required by law to comply. You should be uncomfortable. You should be careful with what you are doing online. You should absolutely make an effort to not involve yourself with this kind of roleplay, EVEN IF IT LIMITS OTHER ROLEPLAYERS. What is worth more to you? Someone feeling left out? Or you being in prison, being permanently branded a sex offender and losing everything?
A word of advice on my behalf ; Stay away from capsing /sizing your points like a campaign add, It can insinuate that you try to bring more weight to your argument then the words alone can convey.
That being said!
The 'Law', as such, and all the accompanying legal actions in regards to sexuality and such especially in first world countries have created an atmosphere where you're running risk of being sued for simply having sex with someone, even if you're both consenting and legal. Your sexual partner can, if they're witty about it slam you with rape charges out of spite and make it stick rather easily. Infact, someone who isn't even involved with you can do so, All you need is to be in a disclosed location where there are no witness, 'scream HELP and RAPE' and then put on a good show for whoever approaches. Even if the charges wont stick, you will be ruined in a professional sense, and  your employer, your co workers and pretty much anyone who will hear of it will probably view you with different eyes if not outright witch-hunt you to the ground.
A similar example, though not in the same vein; A good friend of mine had his entire life fucked up that way by a seventeen year old gal who had a crush on him, who played him in that manner (Something she admitted eventually in the court hearing.) The damage was done however by that point.
Nowadays, if you want to stride on the 'safe' side of things, you would have to outright refuse to play with minors in any capacity, as many - even nonsexual things can be described as corrupting in nature towards youth. Having your character consume Alcohol, smoke drugs and the likes could be already precedent enough for you to be charged with 'influencing minors' by that train of argumentation.
(because the Law isn't infallible, and it certainly isn't just. It's a System in which the most rhetorically gifted can argue his way into things given he has some type of legal precedent, no matter if it truly applies on a moral basis to the situation.)
Ofcourse, from a moral standpoint I do not endorse involving minors in any type of sexual activity with a legal 'adult', but I'd suggest we keep the law seperate from this topic, because According to Law I can get imprisoned on false charges and lose 20 years of my life based on that. The Law isn't a morally sound or sociologically applicable argument to this discussion.
Also, to go a bit into detail in regards to your example about having kids and them Roleplaying/ERPing in a MMO setting; First off, it is your Job as a parent to monitor  your Childrens behavior and what they are exposed to. If you fail in that, you fucked up. I find it laughable that in none of those cases the parents wheren't charged with negliegence, as they  didn't monitor their Childrens online interactions. Roleplaying, no matter what, isn't Rape where an individual forces himself on another person and therein it's out of the hands of the adults to intervene. It's your goddamned job as a parent to know what your children do, who they do it with, how it may impact them, and if they're ready for it.
RE: On Age - Edvyn - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 05:22 AM)Gaspard Wrote:yes. it is much more effective to compose an entire essay of words that are practically weightless.(03-06-2015, 03:11 AM)Clement Janvier Wrote: snip
A word of advice on my behalf ; Stay away from capsing /sizing your points like a campaign add, It can insinuate that you try to bring more weight to your argument then the words alone can convey.
RE: On Age - Gabineaux - 03-06-2015
Quote:A word of advice on my behalf ; Stay away from capsing /sizing your points like a campaign add, It can insinuate that you try to bring more weight to your argument then the words alone can convey.
Oh goodness, but this is a big deal. It deserves caps/sizing. To some of us, the risk of ruining our entire lives, putting children at risk and ending up in a prison is a very big deal that words apparently can't convey. It's hardly even an argument, actually. You can't argue with a judge when you are in court. You pray to god your lawyer is good at doing that for you. When something is against the law it is against the law. When people's real lives are at risk over a fantasy world of pretend, it's a big deal. I suppose I should have worded my post like this:
I don't want anyone's tax dollars paying for your prison sentence! (â—• â—¡ â—•)
Please be careful online! (◕‿◕✿)
Things online can get you in trouble IRL! (◡‿◡✿)
Comparing things in real life such as alleged rape, to something as simple to avoid as erping with a minor? Why, that's like comparing getting a stab wound with getting a paper cut. My post wasn't a "YOU ARE ALL DISGUSTING AND I AM GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU!" My post is literally, there is no grey ground on this when you get caught, watch yourselves. It's better to be safe than sorry. There is no 'oops I didn't know' once things like chat logs are presented in a court of law. An erp session or two with a minor? And how a lot of RPers get weird ooc when they have rp partners? It could easily be seen as grooming a child towards sexual things. And it's a life destroying thing that can be easily avoided. Why even bother comparing this to real life false rape charges?
EDIT: I am compelled to add... controlling what a 14-17 year old is doing online is a very difficult challenge. Controlling what they're up to IRL is enough of a challenge. Good luck with that endeavour. That is an immense job-- no a full time job, that in this age, with all the smart phones and such is next to impossible. As an adult, keep yourself safe. Don't count on other people to keep you safe.
RE: On Age - Gaspard - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 05:30 AM)Edvyn Wrote:(03-06-2015, 05:22 AM)Gaspard Wrote:yes. it is much more effective to compose an entire essay of words that are practically weightless.(03-06-2015, 03:11 AM)Clement Janvier Wrote: snip
A word of advice on my behalf ; Stay away from capsing /sizing your points like a campaign add, It can insinuate that you try to bring more weight to your argument then the words alone can convey.
It's also incredibly easy to discredit something without providing sound argument as to 'why' it is weightless.
(03-06-2015, 05:33 AM)Clement Janvier Wrote:Quote:A word of advice on my behalf ; Stay away from capsing /sizing your points like a campaign add, It can insinuate that you try to bring more weight to your argument then the words alone can convey.
Oh goodness, but this is a big deal. It deserves caps/sizing. To some of us, the risk of ruining our entire lives, putting children at risk and ending up in a prison is a very big deal that words apparently can't convey. It's hardly even an argument, actually. You can't argue with a judge when you are in court. You pray to god your lawyer is good at doing that for you. When something is against the law it is against the law. When people's real lives are at risk over a fantasy world of pretend, it's a big deal. I suppose I should have worded my post like this:
I don't want anyone's tax dollars paying for your prison sentence! (â—• â—¡ â—•)
Please be careful online! (◕‿◕✿)
Things online can get you in trouble IRL! (◡‿◡✿)
Comparing things in real life such as alleged rape, to something as simple to avoid as erping with a minor? Why, that's like comparing getting a stab wound with getting a paper cut. My post wasn't a "YOU ARE ALL DISGUSTING AND I AM GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU!" My post is literally, there is no grey ground on this when you get caught, watch yourselves. It's better to be safe than sorry. There is no 'oops I didn't know' once things like chat logs are presented in a court of law. An erp session or two with a minor? And how a lot of RPers get weird ooc when they have rp partners? It could easily be seen as grooming a child towards sexual things. And it's a life destroying thing that can be easily avoided. Why even bother comparing this to real life false rape charges?
You are right, being careful in that notion is necessary if you don't want to be involved in legal drama over it, not mentioning the social repercussions. I compared the two on the notion that both touch the topic of sexuality and how law handles sexuality, and moreso how society responds to sexual Charges.
Fact is ; Roleplaying with teenagers if you're an adult yourself is, through these laws, dangerous. So yes, if you want to be safe, you have to refuse to play with anyone who's not 18 or older, unless you make sure your roleplay (sexual or not) stays entirely PG-13
RE: On Age - Edvyn - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 05:55 AM)Gaspard Wrote:you'll have to excuse me if I don't find the sense in your bizarre, MRA-esque, pseudointellectual ramblings(03-06-2015, 05:30 AM)Edvyn Wrote:(03-06-2015, 05:22 AM)Gaspard Wrote:yes. it is much more effective to compose an entire essay of words that are practically weightless.(03-06-2015, 03:11 AM)Clement Janvier Wrote: snip
A word of advice on my behalf ; Stay away from capsing /sizing your points like a campaign add, It can insinuate that you try to bring more weight to your argument then the words alone can convey.
It's also incredibly easy to discredit something without providing sound argument as to 'why' it is weightless.
im not going to waste my time trying to match up rebuttals to every little bit of nonsense you've convinced yourself is true and profound. you are, contrary to what you might think, not worth debating.
before demanding rigor, demonstrate it yourself
someone else here can indulge your fantasies of being someone with useful things to say
RE: On Age - Gaspard - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 06:06 AM)Edvyn Wrote:(03-06-2015, 05:55 AM)Gaspard Wrote:you'll have to excuse me if I don't find the sense in your bizarre, MRA-esque, pseudointellectual ramblings(03-06-2015, 05:30 AM)Edvyn Wrote:(03-06-2015, 05:22 AM)Gaspard Wrote:yes. it is much more effective to compose an entire essay of words that are practically weightless.(03-06-2015, 03:11 AM)Clement Janvier Wrote: snip
A word of advice on my behalf ; Stay away from capsing /sizing your points like a campaign add, It can insinuate that you try to bring more weight to your argument then the words alone can convey.
It's also incredibly easy to discredit something without providing sound argument as to 'why' it is weightless.
im not going to waste my time trying to match up rebuttals to every little bit of nonsense you've convinced yourself is true and profound. you are, contrary to what you might think, not worth debating.
before demanding rigor, demonstrate it yourself
Understood, you've nothing constructive to add.
Thank you for bowing out in time, then.
RE: On Age - Edvyn - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 06:15 AM)Gaspard Wrote:this exchange would not have occurred had you constructed yourself a better post!(03-06-2015, 06:06 AM)Edvyn Wrote:(03-06-2015, 05:55 AM)Gaspard Wrote:you'll have to excuse me if I don't find the sense in your bizarre, MRA-esque, pseudointellectual ramblings(03-06-2015, 05:30 AM)Edvyn Wrote:(03-06-2015, 05:22 AM)Gaspard Wrote: A word of advice on my behalf ; Stay away from capsing /sizing your points like a campaign add, It can insinuate that you try to bring more weight to your argument then the words alone can convey.yes. it is much more effective to compose an entire essay of words that are practically weightless.
It's also incredibly easy to discredit something without providing sound argument as to 'why' it is weightless.
im not going to waste my time trying to match up rebuttals to every little bit of nonsense you've convinced yourself is true and profound. you are, contrary to what you might think, not worth debating.
before demanding rigor, demonstrate it yourself
Understood, you've nothing constructive to add.
Thank you for bowing out in time, then.
RE: On Age - Gaspard - 03-06-2015
Didn't you establish a moment ago that i'm not worth debating? Because it seems to me like you do want to debate 'something' at this point.
RE: On Age - Edvyn - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 06:21 AM)Gaspard Wrote: Didn't you establish a moment ago that i'm not worth debating? Because it seems to me like you do want to debate 'something' at this point.this is not a debate, gaspard
RE: On Age - Gabineaux - 03-06-2015
This entire thread with its original topics being argued don't seem constructive, either. If only because the law is the law and that's the way it is. Argue the law as much as you like but with such a sensitive topic, why argue? Why does anyone need solid evidence that something like this is illegal? Why does anyone even want to take the high risk, just for internet pretend times? There's no good leg to stand on here. There just isn't. I'm baffled over here. Baffled and entirely too concerned.
RE: On Age - Gaspard - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 06:22 AM)Edvyn Wrote:Very well, then you apparently wont waste your time as i'm not worth 'debating', but you'll waste it trying to argue with me over my posts. I can see how precious your time must be indeed.(03-06-2015, 06:21 AM)Gaspard Wrote: Didn't you establish a moment ago that i'm not worth debating? Because it seems to me like you do want to debate 'something' at this point.this is not a debate, gaspard
RE: On Age - Edvyn - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 06:31 AM)Gaspard Wrote:i dont want to waste time bloating your ego by treating you like the internet professor you wish you were. i would rather waste my time bickering over pointless shit.(03-06-2015, 06:22 AM)Edvyn Wrote:Very well, then you apparently wont waste your time as i'm not worth 'debating', but you'll waste it trying to argue with me over my posts. I can see how precious your time must be indeed.(03-06-2015, 06:21 AM)Gaspard Wrote: Didn't you establish a moment ago that i'm not worth debating? Because it seems to me like you do want to debate 'something' at this point.this is not a debate, gaspard
RE: On Age - Gaspard - 03-06-2015
(03-06-2015, 06:34 AM)Edvyn Wrote:I concede. You're clearly the Authority on; How to waste your time(03-06-2015, 06:31 AM)Gaspard Wrote:i dont want to waste time bloating your ego by treating you like the internet professor you wish you were. i would rather waste my time bickering over pointless shit.(03-06-2015, 06:22 AM)Edvyn Wrote:Very well, then you apparently wont waste your time as i'm not worth 'debating', but you'll waste it trying to argue with me over my posts. I can see how precious your time must be indeed.(03-06-2015, 06:21 AM)Gaspard Wrote: Didn't you establish a moment ago that i'm not worth debating? Because it seems to me like you do want to debate 'something' at this point.this is not a debate, gaspard
No way I can compete with that in any way, shape or form.
And I'll have you know I'm a certified Internet Professor, I studied at /4chan and  9gag.
RE: On Age - K'nahli - 03-06-2015
Well, I suppose the outcome of this topic was inevitable.
In any case, I doubt there is anything genuine left to add so I'll close the topic here given how it's now going.
As a side note though. There is no need to be snarky toward someone just because you disagree with them. Particularly so when they, themselves, are not.