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+--- Thread: Regarding Dark Knight... (/showthread.php?tid=10956)
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Warren Castille - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 01:01 PM)Aaron Wrote: I assume (but not holding my tongue) Dark Knight might be race locked.
My god, there would be bodies burning in the streets if that was true.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Gegenji - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 01:01 PM)Aaron Wrote: I assume (but not holding my tongue) Dark Knight might be race locked.
From the pictures we've seen only Au Ra seem to be in the DRK armor with the relic, while MCH & AST have hyur and Miq in them.
Unless people count the Miq with the Burtang and Cloud outfit as a DRK, in which then I'd be like whatever I guess.
I can't see that happening. In a game where the mechanic is that anyone can be anything, I seriously doubt they'd lock their new Jobs behind "you must be this race" along with the MSQ barrier. It completely undermines the whole concept and would do little more than infuriate the fan-base.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Aaron - 04-08-2015
Im just throwing the possibility out there.
I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Warren Castille - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 01:15 PM)Aaron Wrote: Im just throwing the possibility out there.
I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.
WHM was race-locked to padjal.
Hey, it could happen.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Cynel1 - 04-08-2015
i would rather have conditions to unlock DRK Job like 30 Marauder 20 Thaumaturge.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Gegenji - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 01:18 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:(04-08-2015, 01:15 PM)Aaron Wrote: Im just throwing the possibility out there.
I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.
WHM was race-locked to padjal.
Hey, it could happen.
Ah, yeah. That might be possible. Again, that's lore details, of which he have scarce few. If I may ask, though, what's the reasoning for the assumption? Is it just the art? Because I would simply figure that was to show off both the new race and the new Job at the same time.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Aaron - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 01:24 PM)Gegenji Wrote:That was one of the reasons yeah.(04-08-2015, 01:18 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:(04-08-2015, 01:15 PM)Aaron Wrote: Im just throwing the possibility out there.
I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.
WHM was race-locked to padjal.
Hey, it could happen.
Ah, yeah. That might be possible. Again, that's lore details, of which he have scarce few. If I may ask, though, what's the reasoning for the assumption? Is it just the art? Because I would simply figure that was to show off both the new race and the new Job at the same time.
The biggest reason though, is that you only see Au Ra in DRK armor, Â yet not in the other classes. Coupled with the fact is /is/ coming with Heavensward and so far it hasn't even been spoken of in game by any quest or NPC.
It just looks all to specific to me is all. Like I said I could be wrong but whatever i guess.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Warren Castille - 04-08-2015
Splitting the difference: Dark Knight might be the Au Ra "main" job that they bring with them, similar to Doma and the Ninja line.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Cynel1 - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 01:30 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Splitting the difference: Dark Knight might be the Au Ra "main" job that they bring with them, similar to Doma and the Ninja line.now i cant stop thinking that a Au Ra would be a mentor for DRKs then again a padjal was a mentor for Conjurers
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Harmonixer - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 10:50 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:(04-08-2015, 10:40 AM)Gegenji Wrote:(04-08-2015, 10:16 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:(04-08-2015, 10:13 AM)Cynel1 Wrote: well i see Dark knight as a Corrupted Paladin it would be Tempting for a Paladin to Fall into Darkness AKA do a Reverse Cecil.
It doesn't matter how you see it, it only matters who SE presents the class in the context of the game. Paladins in XIV aren't holy, and they're already plenty corruptible.
Well, that's if you are running the Dark Knight as a Dark Knight as presented in the game. You could certainly run a Paladin that is "corrupted" and still uses the Paladin skillset and whatnot - there's nothing like the DnD Paladin-style vow-to-the-gods mechanic that strips you of your abilities if you step awry, after all. Conversely, you could have a Paladin who takes up whatever darky-dark-darkness path the Dark Knight's method provides for whatever nefarious purposes while still claiming to be a Paladin. Then you technically have a "Corrupted" Paladin despite mechanically being a Dark Knight.
It's all really in how you spin it, and how those you RP regularly with react to it.
Hm, I should backpedal clarify that I'm taking on the "anti-paladin" concept that always seem the link these two jobs. Traditionally, PLD and DRK wear the same types of gear, do the same types of damage and one channels white magic while the other channels dark magic.
That doesn't really work in XIV, though, because paladins aren't holy knights here. They're just knights. Being a fallen knight is an angle, sure, but there's no "falling" away from the light in this case. Sultansworn are guards with a unique sprite, and Free Paladins are trained in a specific method of combat. If you turn away from that, you're not really... evil? You just don't use that style/method/job anymore.
Hm, I guess what I mean is that ANYONE can "fall" and embrace Dark Knight. There's nothing inherently anti-paladin about it.
Bolded the part I ment to focus on.
I'm going to mention that 'other game' that a fair few don't like to talk about. Which is fine because that's not what we are playing here. But their handle on the tried and true Death/Dark Knight concept is more or less just -any- fallen warrior that was resurrected to do a Lich's bidding. Generally they are empowered with some sort of unholy power, dark magics and a quite literally undead in so form. They could have been a Mage, a Priest, a Shaman, decent warrior. It didn't have to be a Paladin or Knight of any kind prior to. The only required bit, was death- constant self suffering. They -must- inflict pain upon others, otherwise they experience what's called the Wracking Pains. And some details about Rune weapons but we won't get into that.
That being said, and since quite a bit of how FF works is borrowed from that 'other game' it's likely to me that it'll be any adventurer that will focus their triumphs, downfalls, woes or strengths into their newfound power. The main difference will be that you won't have to be dead at all. At least I hope not. I think if anything, this will be much nicer to RP because you'll not have to follow the 'other games' rules about grimdarkness.
I think I've said it before, but I don't think it will be that bad. It's always, always about presentation and I'm very excited about variety from all fronts. AST and MCH should bring great things to the table!
On the subject of tanking, I'm very much in the agreement that it's much more challenging on this game for one simple reason:
That goddamn global cooldown.
In any other game I've tanked in, I can't think of a single more limiting feature. Threat in this game is real, it's a huge management and it gets better with experience and time but it never disappears. Whenever you get geared in other times, threat decay isn't as strong as it is here.
You constantly have to manage your skills, your mitigation, everything much, much more closely. A single mistake could be really fatal, because you are literally unable to act if something goes wrong in a lot of cases.
I hope that DRK isn't going to simply make it 'easier'. I would just like to see a different playstyle to what we already have and just generally add more flavor to the game.
NOTE: I wrote this hours ago but had to go, just never finished the post.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - mongi291 - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 01:45 PM)Harmonixer Wrote:I've never played other MMOs (at least not enough to reach a point in which parties and roles start to matter), but if tanking in FFXIV is hard then I can't imagine how easy and probably boring it is in other games.(04-08-2015, 10:50 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:(04-08-2015, 10:40 AM)Gegenji Wrote:(04-08-2015, 10:16 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:(04-08-2015, 10:13 AM)Cynel1 Wrote: well i see Dark knight as a Corrupted Paladin it would be Tempting for a Paladin to Fall into Darkness AKA do a Reverse Cecil.
It doesn't matter how you see it, it only matters who SE presents the class in the context of the game. Paladins in XIV aren't holy, and they're already plenty corruptible.
Well, that's if you are running the Dark Knight as a Dark Knight as presented in the game. You could certainly run a Paladin that is "corrupted" and still uses the Paladin skillset and whatnot - there's nothing like the DnD Paladin-style vow-to-the-gods mechanic that strips you of your abilities if you step awry, after all. Conversely, you could have a Paladin who takes up whatever darky-dark-darkness path the Dark Knight's method provides for whatever nefarious purposes while still claiming to be a Paladin. Then you technically have a "Corrupted" Paladin despite mechanically being a Dark Knight.
It's all really in how you spin it, and how those you RP regularly with react to it.
Hm, I should backpedal clarify that I'm taking on the "anti-paladin" concept that always seem the link these two jobs. Traditionally, PLD and DRK wear the same types of gear, do the same types of damage and one channels white magic while the other channels dark magic.
That doesn't really work in XIV, though, because paladins aren't holy knights here. They're just knights. Being a fallen knight is an angle, sure, but there's no "falling" away from the light in this case. Sultansworn are guards with a unique sprite, and Free Paladins are trained in a specific method of combat. If you turn away from that, you're not really... evil? You just don't use that style/method/job anymore.
Hm, I guess what I mean is that ANYONE can "fall" and embrace Dark Knight. There's nothing inherently anti-paladin about it.
Bolded the part I ment to focus on.
I'm going to mention that 'other game' that a fair few don't like to talk about. Which is fine because that's not what we are playing here. But their handle on the tried and true Death/Dark Knight concept is more or less just -any- fallen warrior that was resurrected to do a Lich's bidding. Generally they are empowered with some sort of unholy power, dark magics and a quite literally undead in so form. They could have been a Mage, a Priest, a Shaman, decent warrior. It didn't have to be a Paladin or Knight of any kind prior to. The only required bit, was death- constant self suffering. They -must- inflict pain upon others, otherwise they experience what's called the Wracking Pains. And some details about Rune weapons but we won't get into that.
That being said, and since quite a bit of how FF works is borrowed from that 'other game' it's likely to me that it'll be any adventurer that will focus their triumphs, downfalls, woes or strengths into their newfound power. The main difference will be that you won't have to be dead at all. At least I hope not. I think if anything, this will be much nicer to RP because you'll not have to follow the 'other games' rules about grimdarkness.
I think I've said it before, but I don't think it will be that bad. It's always, always about presentation and I'm very excited about variety from all fronts. AST and MCH should bring great things to the table!
On the subject of tanking, I'm very much in the agreement that it's much more challenging on this game for one simple reason:
That goddamn global cooldown.
In any other game I've tanked in, I can't think of a single more limiting feature. Threat in this game is real, it's a huge management and it gets better with experience and time but it never disappears. Whenever you get geared in other times, threat decay isn't as strong as it is here.
You constantly have to manage your skills, your mitigation, everything much, much more closely. A single mistake could be really fatal, because you are literally unable to act if something goes wrong in a lot of cases.
I hope that DRK isn't going to simply make it 'easier'. I would just like to see a different playstyle to what we already have and just generally add more flavor to the game.
NOTE: I wrote this hours ago but had to go, just never finished the post.
I mean, am I the only one who finds tanking easier than other roles? I find tanking easier than doing high DPS or keeping the party alive.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Aaron - 04-08-2015
Nope you're not alone. I find tanking easier too.
It's more often than not tank here, maybe over there for a few, flash here. Stun this.
Lol at the end.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Warren Castille - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 02:00 PM)mongi291 Wrote: I've never played other MMOs (at least not enough to reach a point in which parties and roles start to matter), but if tanking in FFXIV is hard then I can't imagine how easy and probably boring it is in other games.
I mean, am I the only one who finds tanking easier than other roles? I find tanking easier than doing high DPS or keeping the party alive.
Tanking is always a difficult thing to balance out. At the dungeon/leveling stage, it's fairly straightforward: face in proper direction, holds packs. At a raid level it changes to "be in precise position of everyone is dead, good job" or "immediately pick up this add or it kills your healer immediately" or "use your cooldowns correctly or you immediately die and wipe the raid."
Other MMOs I've played have the actual threat-managing portion be entirely inconsequential. I don't think WoW, even with all of its adopted add-ons and integrated UI segments, has a threat meter. I remember installing Omen back in my day to show me where threat was so I would know when to slow down, but it doesn't matter at all when the tank makes more threat on the first hit then I create in an entire rotation.
I both love and hate that tank actions are less braindead in XIV. It's easy to say "just spam overpower/flash" but that doesn't play the long game - how long between each pull? Will you get to a pack with enough TP/MP for one AoE and then be fucked? Resource management doesn't exist in other MMOs (that I've played). You just run in, hit your "everything fights me forever" buttons and look at procs light up.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - allgivenover - 04-08-2015
Tanking is stupid easy in this and other games.
Doing it well is a different story entirely, and I can tell immediately if someone is mediocre or actually good just with a little bit of coil time together.
Same with healing. Any idiot can stand there and spam cure, but developing the tank twister tether method in t13 while the scholar dps's in cleric stance is a whole different story.
DPS is the only role where mediocrity is not immediately apparent. As long as they don't fail an instant wipe mechanic it can be hard to notice the bad without a parser.
RE: Regarding Dark Knight... - Ashren Dotharl - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 01:29 PM)Aaron Wrote:(04-08-2015, 01:24 PM)Gegenji Wrote:That was one of the reasons yeah.(04-08-2015, 01:18 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:(04-08-2015, 01:15 PM)Aaron Wrote: Im just throwing the possibility out there.
I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.
WHM was race-locked to padjal.
Hey, it could happen.
Ah, yeah. That might be possible. Again, that's lore details, of which he have scarce few. If I may ask, though, what's the reasoning for the assumption? Is it just the art? Because I would simply figure that was to show off both the new race and the new Job at the same time.
The biggest reason though, is that you only see Au Ra in DRK armor, Â yet not in the other classes. Coupled with the fact is /is/ coming with Heavensward and so far it hasn't even been spoken of in game by any quest or NPC.
It just looks all to specific to me is all. Like I said I could be wrong but whatever i guess.
The Astrologian character they show is an Au Ra as well, but we know those come from Sharlaya while Au Ra come from Othard. I just think they used two of the new Jobs to also showcase the male and female Au Ra, I don't think the race they have portraying the Job is indicative of anything.