Hydaelyn Role-Players
The Usage of Future Tense - Printable Version

+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: The Usage of Future Tense (/showthread.php?tid=13498)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Ignacius - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:25 PM)Aya Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:23 PM)Ignacius Wrote: I assume if you're not using this format, you aren't as worried about what would happen as the consequences unfold.
Que?  Everything else you said makes sense, except that this is a writing style not a format.

No, it's definitely a format (though you'd be forgiven for not seeing the description, that was pages back).  This format was specifically developed for text combat without using rolls and such in active RP media, and was specifically used for contested actions.  That's why I don't recommend using: Ignacius would raise the glass to his lips, intending to drink it.  That's assuming someone's going to contest my beer swigging, which is either desperate or not particularly smart.

That's why I said if you're not using it, you're not worried about what would happen as the consequences unfold.  The consequences of me drinking something aren't immediately an issue for everyone else unless I'm drinking some kind of magic exploding suicide potion (in which case, I might use the format).  It's fairly noticeable when someone starts including the conditional that often and what for.

You don't even have to necessarily use it for that, but it's a LOT easier that way.  It means not having to crash the flow to OOC for things that you might otherwise need to crash to OOC for.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - LiadansWhisper - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:37 PM)Vyce Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:13 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:07 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:03 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: To summarize: Make your actions display intent, but make sure you do it correctly otherwise its your fault for leaving things open to interpretation.

Or, you know, don't pick fights with strangers.

That's just generally good advice. Smile

If you do, though, talking about it OOC is probably a good idea.
Nono. That's where the future conditional comes in. OOC communication isn't really needed unless youre going to do something potentially damaging or violating

Uh...you really should communicate ooc with someone you don't know before randomly attacking them. Future conditional doesn't exempt you from this simple common courtesy that can avoid so much drama.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Ignacius - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:30 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:07 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:03 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: To summarize: Make your actions display intent, but make sure you do it correctly otherwise its your fault for leaving things open to interpretation.

Or, you know, don't pick fights with strangers.

I know a thing or two about fighting strangers, or asking strangers to fight for other people's amusement. None of it comes down to picking apart their language to find loopholes and paint them into a corner to get them to lose.

I've had to fight strangers with everything from dice to writing skills and back.  I'd never tell anyone that good RP can't be had by a style and that it's not worth it to bother learning it.  I've had a few very public and entertaining fights based on nothing but that one particular method.  I wouldn't presume it's worthy of scorn simply because you don't like it.  It's far from the method of active RP combat I like the least.  There are plenty of dice systems I find far more sterile than that.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Warren Castille - 09-21-2015

I'll repeat it: Combat RP decided by picking apart grammar instead of intent isn't roleplaying.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Ignacius - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:40 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:37 PM)Vyce Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:13 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:07 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:03 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: To summarize: Make your actions display intent, but make sure you do it correctly otherwise its your fault for leaving things open to interpretation.

Or, you know, don't pick fights with strangers.

That's just generally good advice. Smile

If you do, though, talking about it OOC is probably a good idea.
Nono. That's where the future conditional comes in. OOC communication isn't really needed unless youre going to do something potentially damaging or violating

Uh...you really should communicate ooc with someone you don't know before randomly attacking them. Future conditional doesn't exempt you from this simple common courtesy that can avoid so much drama.

First, most of us aren't randomly attacking anyone; most of us deserve being attacked at some point in the course of the RP.  Second, it doesn't necessarily require OOC communication if you've got an understanding of how this works.  That's originally why it became the de facto standard.  I mean, you may find you have to drop to OOC for every conflict, but dealing with anyone else particularly well schooled in how this works, I rarely have had to over the last decade or so.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Ignacius - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:43 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'll repeat it: Combat RP decided by picking apart grammar instead of intent isn't roleplaying.

Well, if you'd like to not even debate your unfair generalization of the point, then go forth and feel confident in your resolution.  It doesn't do much especially for the conversation's topic at the moment, though.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Kage - 09-21-2015

The thing is, for most of us not using this format, a lot of us are quite capable with roleplaying with others we're not generally at least somewhat familiar with. I only knew a handful of the people roleplaying at the grindstone or some of those I've done combat scenes but rarely have I had to go OOC for purpose of the combat direction.

The only person I say I would have ever had such an issue wherein I might even consider the format was a person who I saw needed to get godmodded down into death by calling in an entire linkshell and FC of friends.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Berrod Armstrong - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:33 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:23 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:13 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:07 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:03 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: To summarize: Make your actions display intent, but make sure you do it correctly otherwise its your fault for leaving things open to interpretation.

Or, you know, don't pick fights with strangers.

That's just generally good advice. Smile

If you do, though, talking about it OOC is probably a good idea.
THIS. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. It is possible to talk to strangers OOCly and come to an agreement/compromise instead of doing tense gymnastics. Whether John Doe stabbed Berrod in the heart ten years ago or if he's woulding into the sun, a quick discussion between John and Berrod's players can make things flow well with each one sticking to their style/tense. If John and Berrod don't want to communicate, then...then they're not going to gain much by roleplaying with each other.

That seems a bit harsh.  I get along fine with plenty of people who started out trying to kill a character of mine for some reason, mostly without asking.  I always found it somewhat... I don't know, unprofessional I guess is a good word, to seem to drop character as soon as conflict reared up and start making some kind of OOC script.  I certainly didn't need it to get into trouble.

I mean, if my character, Heaven forbid, calls someone a rank amateur in the course of a conversation, and that character decides to take a swing at him, I'd feel it a bit rich at that point to then pause the whole scene to OOC out with the character how we were going to handle it.  I prefer OOC to be the last refuge when things aren't working.

I'm more than willing to talk it out if someone really wants to, but I'd never assume I need to start making demands on how this combat should go or end up, especially since I might just as easily not end up in combat.  Or that we'd end up in combat with something else.  RP can go a million different ways, and I'd rather keep my options open on that front than to start locking up mechanics.

That may be different for other players, but I try to be flexible to keep the RP going as best I can so that we don't get bogged down in OOC.  Again, that's a personal preference rather than a piece of practical advice; you all should know what you're capable of performing ICly as far as how to manipulate a scene.  Still, I don't think it's good policy to say that people can't hash out combat ICly without predetermining it OOC without having anything to RP about.

The richness of your RP proliferates by the amount of people you can effectively RP with, I find.
On the note of seeming unprofessional...I can't really be bothered with anything close to the pretense of being professional when I'm sitting in my boxers** playing pretend on the internet. I do agree that the last part of my statement -is- a bit harsh, because I too, have met a few strangers and bounced off good fight scenes with them without OOC communication. I attribute that, however, to how open I tend to be regarding the other player's writing, and my love for rolling with the punches (and getting my character bloodied). 

Regarding 'pausing a scene ooc' -- it's not a movie, it's not running and then STOP. There's always a pause between posts, and if part of that pause involves me whispering the other guy to ask if his punch is coming faster than my character's position affords him to block, then so be it! It can only help the scene for me, not harm it. If the other person reacts unfavorably to this, then I know that this is someone I don't want to invest any time in. 

I don't make demands on how the combat should go. I don't script anything (most times...! Sometimes there's an idea another roleplayer and I are bursting to deal with and we plan and play). I simply clarify things that may or may not happen, sometimes ask what the other player would like to see, and at times ask their permission to allow this to happen. I have done roleplay combat with a few of people on here, they know how it goes, and I would like to think that it's a very comfortable process (when undertaken) that only results in a clearer, more enjoyable depiction of conflict/combat. Nothing's locked up. Everything is open. Communication is not a sudden lockdown onto one path. It's just...communication! It can serve many purposes.

I do not think it's mandatory at all for people to have to work things out OOC rather than hash it out IC. I do that, a lot! However, I believe if someone is -incapable- of or unwilling to do so when the need arises, then there's a problem. 

If the richness of my RP proliferates by the amount of people I can effectively RP with, I think that what I've been saying and doing has some definite merit!

I do understand the quoted view on things (and can relate to it on some level), but as it works one way, so does it work the other. It's always good to be open to the idea of having to communicate with a stranger instead of wrestling with prose. Your characters may be fighting, but as writers you're supposed to be working together to build a scene that is enjoyable for you both. Sometimes that may involve working with each other's odd tense preferences! 

Sometimes. In the end, to each his own, always.

**Berrod's player usually sits in a towel because he is lazy trash who doesn't like to get dressed when he's at home

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Aya - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:51 PM)Kage Wrote: The thing is, for most of us not using this format, a lot of us are quite capable with roleplaying with others we're not generally at least somewhat familiar with. I only knew a handful of the people roleplaying at the grindstone or some of those I've done combat scenes but rarely have I had to go OOC for purpose of the combat direction.

The only person I say I would have ever had such an issue wherein I might even consider the format was a person who I saw needed to get godmodded down into death by calling in an entire linkshell and FC of friends.
Being flexible, adaptive, and interactive has absolutely zip to do with whether or not you force your writing into a particular "format". 

I get what he is saying in that he uses it as a switch, and that is his stylistic choice.  That is all fine and well as long as he isn't trying to apply that presumption to other people's writing.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Ignacius - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:51 PM)Kage Wrote: The thing is, for most of us not using this format, a lot of us are quite capable with roleplaying with others we're not generally at least somewhat familiar with. I only knew a handful of the people roleplaying at the grindstone or some of those I've done combat scenes but rarely have I had to go OOC for purpose of the combat direction.

The only person I say I would have ever had such an issue wherein I might even consider the format was a person who I saw needed to get godmodded down into death by calling in an entire linkshell and FC of friends.

The format's pretty good for total strangers, but as many have intimated here, it's an old-fashioned courtesy.  It used to be a requirement, but now it's normally a sign someone's kind of old fashioned and cares about the form from education.  It's definitely good to use from my experience, but a lot of RPers not five or ten years younger than me might not have even heard of it until they see someone using it and wonder WTF they're talking about.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Dis - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 02:00 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: The only time I use future tense is when I'm fighting someone and describing what I'm doing. The things I put in future tense say what the results of my attack will be if it's not avoided.

I do the same, but I have to wonder if that isn't just a habit we picked up from where we started.  We left a lot of things open for interpretation when interacting with someone else's character, especially if actions directly affected another character.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Warren Castille - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:48 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-21-2015, 03:43 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'll repeat it: Combat RP decided by picking apart grammar instead of intent isn't roleplaying.

Well, if you'd like to not even debate your unfair generalization of the point, then go forth and feel confident in your resolution.  It doesn't do much especially for the conversation's topic at the moment, though.

What is there to debate? Ignoring someone's character, that character's history and abilities, on the pretext of outwriting someone isn't roleplaying, it's posturing yourself based on your education. There's been plenty of excellent RP had with people who aren't great writers, and declaring that their attacks fail because the writer did a poor job of stating something is working the meta so hard that I can't believe we're even having to discuss why that isn't a fun or fair thing to do. That's why I called it dick measuring earlier: That sort of RP doesn't serve to engage or tell stories, it exists to reinforce egos and showcase talent with words. If it works for you, that's splendid, because it means you found people who enjoy writing the same way you do.

There's people who also think using Oddjob is perfectly fair, or that Smash should only be played on Final Destination with no items.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - LiadansWhisper - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 03:45 PM)Ignacius Wrote: First, most of us aren't randomly attacking anyone; most of us deserve being attacked at some point in the course of the RP.  Second, it doesn't necessarily require OOC communication if you've got an understanding of how this works.  That's originally why it became the de facto standard.  I mean, you may find you have to drop to OOC for every conflict, but dealing with anyone else particularly well schooled in how this works, I rarely have had to over the last decade or so.

No, you really should communicate OOC before attacking someone you don't know.  Because while something may be the "defacto standard" to you, it is most likely not the "defacto standard" to anyone else.

Yahoo RP and its text-based kin died a long time ago.  Many RPers you will encounter today will tell you that their first RP was in WoW, or even in FFXIV.  They aren't familiar with that format/writing style/whatever you want to call it.  So yes, you do need to communicate with them to prevent unnecessary drama.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Aya - 09-21-2015

(09-21-2015, 08:53 AM)Vyce Wrote: Using future tense leaves an opening for more to happen. Adventurous RPers that are open to random encounters and unexpected things happening often use future tense in actions that could well be interrupted because they see the opportunity for the RP to be more than just apples.
This is just so wrong and that seems to be the main thing at stake here.  There really is no need to strictly express what is interactive.  Everything is interactive, and either locking down part of your actions as untouchable or presuming that you have to tell other people who you are RPing with just what they can interact with is presumptuous.  This is why people who use this style end up sounding ridiculous, because suddenly either every emote must begin with "would" or else you risk being rude.

Rather than assuming that only specific actions are interactive, try starting from the assumption that all are interactive and see where you end up.

RE: The Usage of Future Tense - Flickering Ember - 09-21-2015

Maybe you guys should take the RP combat discussion to a new thread? I know it relates somewhat but 'Whether or not you should talk OOC to come to a decision on a combat RP' is not anything like 'Future tense is used primarily in RP combat.'

On topic, 'would' is being made into a mountain from a mole hill. You might find you have a lower blood pressure should one stop worrying about such silly things. I guess there are two types of people: those who are bothered by it and those who really can't be bothered to care.

It's exactly the sort of people who aren't going to get worked up over it who don't post in threads like these. Thought I would speak up for those sort of people, at least.

TL;DR: It's not a big deal unless you make it one. Also I have never played or seen 'tense gymnastics' and have only seen 'would' be used like 3 times in the past 6 months.

Shruuug