(11-06-2015, 04:26 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: To play devil's advocate for a moment, Barista's don't get murdered, trafficked, and raped at much higher rates than the populace at large.

I don't agree with parts of the 'Crusade' either, but your comparison is disingenuous.

(11-06-2015, 04:24 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 04:19 AM)McBeef™ Wrote: As Marx and Engels say, the definition of being a "Worker" is the inability to refuse work. 

That a worker must accept the best work they can find, or perish. 

I would not judge anyone too harshly for their line of work, friend. If they could find a better paying/safer job, they'd probably do it. However life is not always so kind.

I'm unclear as to where I judged her line of work. I'm pretty sure I judged her for claiming her choice of work is a justification to claim social injustice is occurring towards her. 

If the guy at Starbucks wants to get butthurt because some people don't call him "barista" and instead refer to him as "coffee dude", that's not social injustice either and also doesn't warrant a PC crusade.

(11-06-2015, 04:31 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 04:26 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: To play devil's advocate for a moment, Barista's don't get murdered, trafficked, and raped at much higher rates than the populace at large.

I don't agree with parts of the 'Crusade' either, but your comparison is disingenuous.

...and if they did, I bet you a lot less people would decide to undertake a career as a barista, wouldn't they?

Sorrynotsorry, but I can't be sympathetic to the consequences of a life someone is choosing to live. Unless we're talking literal sex slavery, this is a choice to undertake those risks as a part of the job. In every country in Western Civilization (and a majority of countries elsewhere in the world) humans are able to choose what to do for a living. Yes, there has to be demand for workers in a given field in a given region. We're also capable of relocating to other places where there's more demand for work of a type that we want to do and which has a risk level we're willing to tolerate.

(11-06-2015, 04:30 AM)Verad Wrote: They can, and do, and have. That they are not advocating here en masse does not say that somehow sex worker rights groups are scattered and leaderless, roaming the land in anarchic tribes. Rather, not many of them are also RPers in FF14.

As for accuracy, I don't know how do you measure credibility? What is the standard of evidence that would say "Okay, my friend of ten years is wrong"?

(11-06-2015, 04:31 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 04:26 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: To play devil's advocate for a moment, Barista's don't get murdered, trafficked, and raped at much higher rates than the populace at large.

I don't agree with parts of the 'Crusade' either, but your comparison is disingenuous.

...and if they did, I bet you a lot less people would decide to undertake a career as a barista, wouldn't they?

Sorrynotsorry, but I can't be sympathetic to the consequences of a life someone is choosing to live. Unless we're talking literal sex slavery, this is a choice to undertake those risks as a part of the job. In every country in Western Civilization (and a majority of countries elsewhere in the world) humans are able to choose what to do for a living. Yes, there has to be demand for workers in a given field in a given region. We're also capable of relocating to other places where there's more demand for work of a type that we want to do and which has a risk level we're willing to tolerate.

(11-06-2015, 04:33 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 04:30 AM)Verad Wrote: They can, and do, and have. That they are not advocating here en masse does not say that somehow sex worker rights groups are scattered and leaderless, roaming the land in anarchic tribes. Rather, not many of them are also RPers in FF14.

As for accuracy, I don't know how do you measure credibility? What is the standard of evidence that would say "Okay, my friend of ten years is wrong"?

When y'all organize and actually can show that Umi's opinion does represent the majority of those in the sex industry, then I'll accept that my friend's opinion is not accurate.

(11-06-2015, 04:26 AM)Verad Wrote: You ever see a guy at Starbucks get the shit beaten out of him for making a latte wrong, and then the cops at best don't pursue charges because he was asking for it, working in that job, or, at worse, arrest him instead?

If you did, god damn, you have some hardcore coffee shops.

(11-06-2015, 04:35 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 04:26 AM)Verad Wrote: You ever see a guy at Starbucks get the shit beaten out of him for making a latte wrong, and then the cops at best don't pursue charges because he was asking for it, working in that job, or, at worse, arrest him instead?

If you did, god damn, you have some hardcore coffee shops.

Nope, I can't say that I've ever seen that happen to a barista. I've heard of it happening to plenty of people in plenty of job types, though, and every single one of them was working in that job because they chose to do that job and did so with an understanding of the risk they were accepting in the process.

Are we next going to have a forum topic about how it's unacceptable to call a soldier a soldier, and we have to refer to them as "government civil defense personnel" or some nonsense? Hey, those guys accept jobs where risk of injury or death are a part of their job, too. Let's include them in this discussion if that's your basis of argument.

(11-06-2015, 04:29 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: As a former sex worker and someone who has been called the n word more times than I can count, this thread boggles my mind. OP, I appreciate where you're coming from, and thank you for trying to educate people. 

Just...I honestly don't feel the same way about those words, they're very 'whatever'. They were always 'whatever'. When I got into the business, I accepted that some of those words would be used against me, and through that, I armored myself to make sure they had no power. I didn't have any 'community' to stand with, it was just me and my boss. That language would only be harmful to me if I let it harm me (and when some dude is delighting in calling you a 'Big d**k n*****r w***e' and you gotta keep it up, yeah...).

It's understandable if you find the words harmful, but using the group of sex workers you know to speak for all of us is uh -- I dunno it puts me off a little. 

However! Take my words with a grain of salt, since I did it more as an outlet for my own condition than to make a living. Apparently that plus being male severely decreases the value of my opinion on the matter, according to the angry first world internet.

Awareness is good though, and I enjoyed reading most of your post.

(11-06-2015, 04:34 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: That's the thing though, it's often not a job, as it's illegal in 49 states.

Those prostitutes who physically sell sex for money are criminals in the eyes of the state, and generally are doing so because they have no other option. 

I'm not sure where you live, but to view prostitutes as any other form of mobile labor is a happy thought here in America.

(11-06-2015, 04:35 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: Are we next going to have a forum topic about how it's unacceptable to call a soldier a soldier

(11-06-2015, 04:31 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 04:26 AM)McBeefâ„¢ Wrote: To play devil's advocate for a moment, Barista's don't get murdered, trafficked, and raped at much higher rates than the populace at large.

I don't agree with parts of the 'Crusade' either, but your comparison is disingenuous.

...and if they did, I bet you a lot less people would decide to undertake a career as a barista, wouldn't they?

Sorrynotsorry, but I can't be sympathetic to the consequences of a life someone is choosing to live. Unless we're talking literal sex slavery, this is a choice to undertake those risks as a part of the job. In every country in Western Civilization (and a majority of countries elsewhere in the world) humans are able to choose what to do for a living. Yes, there has to be demand for workers in a given field in a given region. We're also capable of relocating to other places where there's more demand for work of a type that we want to do and which has a risk level we're willing to tolerate.

(11-06-2015, 04:38 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: "finance industry alternative withdrawal strategists".

(11-06-2015, 04:36 AM)Verad Wrote: Sure, why not? What do they prefer to be called?

Edit: Oh, wait, you're trying to argue it's absurd, okay. Yeah, but it's not, because people get really mad when soldiers are called babykillers and not what they prefer to be called.

(11-06-2015, 04:40 AM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:

(11-06-2015, 04:36 AM)Verad Wrote: Sure, why not? What do they prefer to be called?

Edit: Oh, wait, you're trying to argue it's absurd, okay. Yeah, but it's not, because people get really mad when soldiers are called babykillers and not what they prefer to be called.

Did said soldier kill a baby? If not, then he is not factually a babykiller. End of discussion on that.