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RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Ilwe'ran - 03-27-2015
You're derailing again guys
And I wanted to add this :
Read about the people you're interested about :
Some RPer interest you 'cause you click with them or something else ? Well, best way is probably not to wait for them to reach out and find a reason for you and them to meet. Do it yourself. Seek some informations on their wiki, find a way to include them in your plot, give them some space where their character can exist and they find some interest to RP in.
Example :
I would like to RP with Verad Bellveil. What can I do to make this happen and how my character could suddenly come to communicate with them.
1. Fetching informations on their wiki, trying to find where their character lives, what is their occupation, why my character and their could suddenly meet.
2. PM the person on the RPC or in game to ask them if they would actually would like to RP with me and offer them something. A plot. A reason. Something that would motivate them to meet me
Example : "My character is suffering from heavy stress right now and I noticed that yours is practicing some cactu-puncture. I always wanted to meet you ICly and would like to know if you would be interested by a session where Verad would take care of my character's stress and maybe we could use it as a step stone for more RP ?"
3. Don't rant if they don't want / can't for a reason or another. The best you can do after offering is accepting the answer which will be given to you and be available.
There, this is how you can make some new connections with someone specific you wanted to meet. Don't expect others to reach out, always do it yourself !
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Roen - 03-27-2015
I will share my own experience, take it for what it's worth!
PMs have been my friend. That has been my mainstay of making connections. My character being rather quiet spoken and definitely not a social butterfly, when I came to discover the RPC, I scouted out posters here, read their wikis, and started to send out PMs with "Hey, I read your profile and your character sounds fascinating! I am kind of new around here, would you want to arrange a chance meeting RP with me?"
Everyone I've sent a PM to replied nicely (people are very friendly around here I've found), and dialogue got started about what each character was about and BAM chance encounter scheduled. Guaranteed RP! Although I should also mention a few of those didn't pan out when it was left to "find me whenever!" Because finding people who are not on your friend's list is painstaking in this game.
But in my early days, I did also hang around Quicksand and emoted, reading a book, ordering a drink, or even sitting outside on a bench or what have you. But what I was MOSTLY doing was reading other people's emotes and conversations to see who I wanted to interact with or who may have a hook I can use. I did spill a drink on someone once, or accidentally bumped into them dropping the said book, and a conversation was started. Rarely did someone approach me though while I was emoting by my lonesome. I was emoting mostly to make others know I was there, so that when *I* approached *them* I had been there ICly for awhile.
I also went to watch the Grindstone events and met Roen's first and oldest friend there by complete random encounter.
I also wrote on the IC forum about what was going on with my character after her first real story arc got started. I do believe that getting IC posts out there kind of puts out a resume if you will, for other RPers who like to write and read such things. It attracts like minded people. I have sent out my share of "I LOVED your post" PMs and those opened up some dialogue for new RP opportunities as well.
So that's how I've made my connections so far. And I still bug people all the time, through tells or PM if they want to RP with me. I rarely get random walk ups since I am not hanging around the tavern these days... although I will not turn away any if it happens! Once I was crafting in obvious non-RP gear when Brynhilde just walked up to Roen and stared her down. I immediately stood up and started to RP. Right there, in that skimpy crafting clothes that Roen would never wear. >___> I was also stopped for a chat when I was visiting my retainer. Twice. Closed window and started to RP!
So be proactive would be my advice. I don't really know what the solution is for people who were outright flatly ignored, that has yet to happen to me and this was when I was totally new around here and knew no one. Or maybe if I did emote and it was ignored, I just brushed it off as they didn't read it or they were busy, or afk and I moved on.
So not really anything *new* in terms of advice but that's what I can share. I do hope new folks AND old RPers like do not get discouraged from keep trying and being proactive.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Tiergan - 03-27-2015
Wow, this thread blew up while I was asleep.
Anyhow, I want to speak on something I see as a potential recurring theme in this thread. [WARNING MASSIVE BLOCK OF TEXT AHEAD. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY THINGS CONCISELY.]
There seems to be a lot of fear about the community as a whole being expected or obligated to do all the work in bringing new people in. I can definitely understand this fear because it definitely does happen. In every MMO RP community I have ever been in there’s always this small faction of RPers (not even ‘new’ RPers. Just RPers in general) who come in with a bizaare sense of entitlement where if they make even the smallest amount of effort, they feel they should be rewarded by a rainfall of RP where people fall over themselves to interact with them.
I will never forget a time I went to the Quicksand as Tiergan 100% determined to get random RP and I was faced with a person just like this. I had marched Tiergan to the nearest table, got him absolutely hammered and had him offer to buy everyone in the Quicksand a free round of drinks (very rare for his personality, but I wanted to provide an 'in' for anyone wanting to RP with him). Soon I had a pretty sizable cluster of folks all drinking booze with Tiergan and talking about stuff. A couple of folks were people who knew Tiergan already and were wondering why he was hammered. The rest were brand new people partaking in Tiergan’s generosity.
It was insanely hard to follow a conversation of 6+ people while making sure I didn't miss what anyone was saying. At some point, I got a slightly passive-aggressive tell from another roleplayer about how unhappy they were at ignored by the group. I stopped, scrolled up, and found one single emote of that person doing something vague by the table. I immediately sent her an apology and invited her to come back into the Quicksand (she’d left at that point) for a second go as now I would be able to watch out for her.
She accepted, RP walked into the Quicksand, then immediately RP walked out the other door of the Quicksand. This action literally took the span of maybe 2 or 3 seconds. I had no time to react. She then sent me an angry tell about how I didn’t draw her into the RP like I said I would. I sent her a reply explaining that she hadn’t given me enough time to type anything or for Tiergan to notice her. She then had her character re-enter the Quicksand, then stand at the bar on the OPPOSITE side of the tavern, and did nothing. No emotes, no hook. She gave me nothing and was waiting for me to do all the work.
I had to break character, have Tiergan walk all the way across the bar to her, and have him drunkenly invite her over to the table to drink some of the free booze he was handing out. Only for her character to explain that she doesn’t. drink. alcohol. I tried to come up with more excuses for why drunk Tiergan would bring some total stranger he’d never met across to the table, and each time I met some form of resistance before I gave up and had him stagger back to the table. She sent me more unhappy tells, but at that point, I was miffed that I broke my own immersion trying to go out of my way to bring her in and ignored her.
This is not the only time I’ve encountered something like this in an MMO, and I’m sure plenty of others have had the same experience which is why they’re extremely wary when things like mentor-systems and welcoming committees get brought up. People like the person I mentioned in my story are generally the ones who abuse the kindness of people trying to work to welcome new folks in and sour the vibe for everyone.
I can't speak to the idea of whether or not new folks are actively being ignored or alienated by folks. (I like to think it's accidental and there are more factors at play). But I know it can definitely be a challenge breaking into RP if you're not innately outgoing as a person. Even more so if you are shy, have no FC, and are playing a shy/antisocial character. That was basically where I was at when I first started playing FFXIV, and I almost deleted Tiergan entirely to roll up a new super outgoing character because I had such a difficult time overcoming my own personal obstacles finding RP. It was extremely difficult and I was pretty bummed out that I couldn’t seem to find my groove.
While I think I would have sorted out things eventually, I do feel like the process was streamlined for me by a couple of very kind folks who offered advice like creating a wiki profile, where some cool events were going down, what FCs I could try out, etc. Eventually, they also invited me into certain plots that made sense for both of our characters. They didn’t go out of their way to find a place for me in their stories - they only did it if it was realistic and natural for their character to want me there and for Tiergan to want to be there. If they’d done otherwise, it would have felt pretty awkward and forced.
I think this is basically how things should go from a community-newbie-person standpoint. Established community members can be super welcoming, offer advice (like we have here in this thread!), and meet folks halfway into the community -- BUT they should not be expected to arrange RP for people. They shouldn't be doing anything or even feel forced to meet with anyone they feel wouldn't make sense in context with their own RP. A person who primarily does Yellow Adders combat RP in Gridania shouldn't have to twist and wrap their story into funny shapes just to find some unrealistic, obscure way to include a new person who does 100% of their RP as a Limsan aldgoat herder.
This is why I kept going on and on about "Post in Connection Threads if you actually genuinely want to RP with that person. Post your availability/pick a day to meet up." -- because honestly? Finding a new person whose RP seems like they would work with yours and then providing them the means to meet up with you in game for RP to see if the two of you mesh well is literally the most work an already-established member of the community should really be expected to do if they have the freetime and are in the right place mentally for it. (i.e: not getting buggered by real life) They shouldn't be RPing with someone even if they're not really enjoying it or it isn't realistic in terms of their character. By posting in a 'Connection" thread and providing availability/meet-up day, they are opening the door and allowing someone to jam their foot in. Anything more than that is being super generous.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Magellan - 03-27-2015
I'm gonna take everyone's side, and echo what a lot of others have already said, because I honestly believe everyone is right (as contradicting as that may be)
Being a New Rper is hard: Being a new rper is VERY hard. You get a taste of how glorious rp can be, you want more, you see everyone else enjoying rp, and you try to get more involved yourself, only there is a toolset and a subtle skill to getting involved, and no one is taking the time to show you how to do it. So you start to feel lost, frustrated, and yes, hurt. Like any hobby or job... it is possible to learn on your own, but it becomes so much easier if you have a mentor or tutor to learn off of. Unfortunately, those can be hard to come by.
Cliques exist/cliques are bad: Cliques do exist, and cliques are bad. Why? They damage the growth of other rpers. I am reminded of a guild I was an officer in. Whenever I am an officer, I seem to fall into 'official welcoming/intro rp' person. Which is fine. It's something I enjoy doing, and I strongly feel if you are going to invite someone into your guild story, then why aren't you taking the time to make sure they know how to apply themselves? I've never understand the rather blase attitude of 'figure it out yourself' or 'I'm not here to hold hands'.
Anywho, as said officer, I got a group of 5 or 6 people to welcome a new recruit, and run a scene that had the recruit so excited, so incredibly OOC grateful, that they talked about it all night! Mission accomplished, right?
Well, when I tried to run a similar scene for a new recruit a week later, and asked others to join in, that very same person asked; 'Why?' Many rpers, sadly... tend to be less than welcoming once they have found their 'clique'.
Cliques exist/cliques are good: I told you I was going to be contradictory
Cliques do exist, and cliques are good. Be honest. You're a new rper. What do you want more than anything? A group to call your own, right? And when you find said group, I'm willing to bet you'll be hard pressed to include everyone into your roleplay, due to the simple fact of real life time constraints. Doesn't make you a bad person if you 'forget your roots'. You aren't a bad person if you are 'popular'. It simply means you are human, and can only accomplish so much in the twenty-four hours of the day alloted to us. You'd be surprised how many people do care about helping others... but often find themselves short on time.
Character Matters: As others have noted.... your character matters! A lot of rpers come from small dnd groups, where no matter WHO your character is, the other party members are forced to rp with them. This is not the case in MMO rp. If my character doesn't like yours, they don't have to hang out with you at all! They have CHOICE. And as others have stated... the popular characters tend to be the ones who can handle a variety of different social situations; they are outgoing, charismatic, like strangers, like people and conversation, like to have fun! In MMO these characters work, because you, the individual are responsible for finding your own rp, you are not going to be led along by a DM. So if your character is shy, or socially awkward, they are going to have a harder go of it. They are going to find conversations with people, then never meet again.
Generally, I try to play a socially outgoing character initially, and once I have formed some friendships, experiment more on my alts, as I can then more easier set up rp based on the OOC connections I've made. Even so, I still have alts I struggle to find rp on, due to their innate nature.
If you do plan to play someone shyer, I suggest trying to find an FC or active LS quickly. But it'll still require a little bit more work on your part OOCly to get your character established.
New Rpers tend to blur IC/OOC: Frankly, so do older rpers from time to time. But part of the process of learning to RP is learning to clearly delineate those lines. There's a thought process I see many new rpers go through, which goes something like this: 'I am disliked/ignored ICly, that must mean I am disliked/ignored OOCly.'
As the example used in my Bad Cliques, this is actually sometimes the case. And it sucks. It happens in a fantasy rp world, just as it happens in real life. Just because we all share the same hobby, doesn't mean everyone is nice and inclusive about it :/
But sometimes, it is not the case at all! I have joined a few FC's and LS's, where I absolutely loved the people, but just did not feel I fit in an IC sense. I could not find RP for my character, and they were universally passed over by people in favor of other, more established friends. Yet we still got along just fine OOCly. You cannot, as a creator, writer, and rper, take it personally if your character feels flawed or failed. Use it as a learning tool for when you make the next character. Or reinvent them. Or, keep them just as they are and dig deeper into the community to find the place that feels like home for you. It's not always easy. Which brings me back to:
Being a new RPer is hard: Seriously. There is so much subtle nuance to learn, and oftentimes feels as if the community doesn't care. I've been there. But there are those amongst us who do care, would like to try to help, but we need to know how to help before we can properly direct you.
I also wonder, sometimes, if the people in Making Connections ever seek each other out? So many times I'll see someone post a thread, then another person post a thread right above them, and their character descriptions seem made for each other, yet a week later, they bump, still looking for rp, still frustrated. There are people in Making Connections just like you, there SPECIFICALLY to find new rpers to rp with, so do your due diligence and reach out to them.
It's not guaranteed to always work, but it's a foot in the door. Don't feel bad if you feel the 'popular crowd' doesn't have time for you, instead, go out and make a popular crowd of your own.
In summation, my character Claire is specifically tailored for meeting and greeting new folks, and I've tried to reach out to several on these forums, and would be more than happy to arrange a time to ICly meet if you reach out to me.
tl;dr: persevere! Rp can be very rewarding!
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Ilwe'ran - 03-27-2015
Something else (again, sorry) I find really really really important is around that "hey poke me I'm always happy to have some new connections" thing.
I know that I will probably attract some grunts, but I would like to give my opinion about this (also I don't aim anybody by saying that, d.. Don't get angry okay ._.) .
This is only good for some people already having their group and not being fussed about making some new connection. But don't do that if you're actually trying hard to make some new connection. If that works it's a miracle.
That's all the problem here about making connection. You cannot put yourself on some stall and hope people to pick you without selling yourself. You cannot just say "Hey I'm available" or "I would like to RP with X" and expect people to come and find you.
You have to create the occasion.
I tried to give some ideas here and here but I forgot to say that finding some new people to RP with is exactly like fishing.
You wouldn't go and sit on a rock, in front of the river, saying "Hey, I'm available for eating fish" and expect the fish coming in your basket, right ? Here is the same. You have to use a bait and so to find the other person favorite RP food. While many RPer are available for random RP, I can tell you that if you have a hook for them which is coherent with the person you aim and will provide some RP which won't be "trivial" (like talking about the QS food or the weather), you will really make some good connection that will last long enough if you do your possible to nourish it.
Random RP is a thing, personalized RP occasion is another and the least one is loved by most RPer and will provide you real connection, not tavern buddies.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Kellach Woods - 03-27-2015
Way I see it :
- I'm flagged as a RPer in Examine > Search info (Immediately mention I'm a RPer, and then a couple of words that mention basic themes with my character). I've gotten tells from people finding my character sexy (and one of them subsequently going pls hump your character's crotch against mine), but not anywhere near RPing.Â
- I have a Wiki, it's not linked in my search info because my experience from just having one linked in my sig nobody gives a shit. I also have a problem with integrating out-of-game stuff with in-game personally so that doesn't help.
- I've posted lots of character stuff and have heard ALMOST nary a peep from anyone (Jaques made some awesome fanart of a Bulletin Board entry I put up and that is ALL I've heard of it without actively going READ THIS THING in a LS and even then it was as an example of how much an idiot I am).
- Walking around has never worked. Like seriously. I do not know what these people who just walk around and get RP actually do but I've tried walking around and getting RP, with a grand total of jack and shit for my troubles. It'd be more efficient getting RP in a goddamn Duty Roulette than walking around.
Yes I'm frustrated. Not because I'm not getting RP (I could stand to get more personally but if things are hopping I can get my share) but because every single thing that was posted I have tried and with negative results and more personally because I'm tired of busting my ass to do something and then just not getting feedback or interest from it. Surprisingly enough because I'm heated on the forums, I am a pretty chill dude in-game. I can roll with pretty much everything.
I don't know where you people with actual "ins" are, but you aren't where I am.
The only thing that did work was complaining OOC on the forums about how much I'm trash at PvE which landed me in a LS and allowed me access to the inner workings of a group of people, which allowed me access to various contacts. Even then there's still a struggle because I'm not affiliated with anyone's plot or FC.
Speakin' of, any of you have experience bartering with tonberries?
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Domri Blackblade - 03-27-2015
(03-27-2015, 10:21 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: - Walking around has never worked. Like seriously. I do not know what these people who just walk around and get RP actually do but I've tried walking around and getting RP, with a grand total of jack and shit for my troubles. It'd be more efficient getting RP in a goddamn Duty Roulette than walking around.
When you walk around, are you just gunning by? Are you stopping to see if people posted hooks? Are you posting any hooks of your own? Eavesdrop a bit on the location. I notice when I'm RPing in a crowded place or even standing around somewhere in general, there are people that RP walk by, but they don't emote anything nor are they really there long enough for me to post something.
When you are walking, toss out a hook around the area. See if anyone bites. If not, keep on. See someone around that you might want to RP at? Just PM them. Ask if they are IC or if they'd like to RP. See someone's wiki you like? Player Search online and poke them. Ask if there's anyway to set something up.
I read people's wikis but I honestly don't use the examine info much. Generally, when I start RPing with someone, I'll plug them into the wiki to see if they have anything.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Kellach Woods - 03-27-2015
Then that's not just walking about - Considering the range of /say and /em I can eavesdrop from quite a bit, and I've never heard of anything happening that I could at least get into due to how insular it is. As I said, at best I can get some thirsty fucks sending me tells on my character's sexiness (in Ul'dah only - hence the sig).
I also don't really see /tell as the utmost solution depending on which area you're investigating in. In a sense it works if you're trying to set something up (like further interactions!) but I personally do not like doing it because I feel it ruins the spontaneity of the situation.
I like improv more than scripts.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Domri Blackblade - 03-27-2015
(03-27-2015, 10:31 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Then that's not just walking about - Considering the range of /say and /em I can eavesdrop from quite a bit, and I've never heard of anything happening that I could at least get into due to how insular it is. As I said, at best I can get some thirsty fucks sending me tells on my character's sexiness (in Ul'dah only - hence the sig).
Venture out of Ul'dah. Hit up FC run public spots. Wander around Limsa or Gridania. I met most people I know in Limsa come to think of it.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Kellach Woods - 03-27-2015
OH!
I just remembered a thing that may be of help to others who are in the same situation as me - it's an offshoot of showing you're available for RP but it's so strange many people don't do it I find.
It also goes with the whole "venture out of Ul'dah" thing but I've been looking over there. FC hotspots are, again, hit or miss because some of them aren't known to the public, or can outright be a bunch of closed groups.
DO SOME PVE RP
Aka RP with some NPCs
I'm not even joking - The fact that you can look at a NPC deadass in the eye and interact with them as though they were a player will certainly show others that you're willing and hungry for RP if you're "sinking" that low. It's a nice hook. In the Quicksand it doesn't work as well than in the other cities (interacting with Baderon/Mother Miounne for example) due to chat auto-scroll and the Quicksand having actual RP opportunities anyway when it's not as full, but Drowning Wench and Carline Canopy for SURE.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Berrod Armstrong - 03-28-2015
(03-27-2015, 10:21 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Way I see it :I'm gonna be the 'badguy' here and point a few things out. See the bolded stuff? That general...manner of presenting oneself tends to turn people away. No one will say anything, but they'll likely remember and decide not to interact with you based on that alone -- ESPECIALLY the ones who are a bit more shy.Â
- I'm flagged as a RPer in Examine > Search info (Immediately mention I'm a RPer, and then a couple of words that mention basic themes with my character). I've gotten tells from people finding my character sexy (and one of them subsequently going pls hump your character's crotch against mine), but not anywhere near RPing.Â
- I have a Wiki, it's not linked in my search info because my experience from just having one linked in my sig nobody gives a shit. I also have a problem with integrating out-of-game stuff with in-game personally so that doesn't help.
- I've posted lots of character stuff and have heard ALMOST nary a peep from anyone (Jaques made some awesome fanart of a Bulletin Board entry I put up and that is ALL I've heard of it without actively going READ THIS THING in a LS and even then it was as an example of how much an idiot I am).
- Walking around has never worked. Like seriously. I do not know what these people who just walk around and get RP actually do but I've tried walking around and getting RP, with a grand total of jack and shit for my troubles. It'd be more efficient getting RP in a goddamn Duty Roulette than walking around.
Yes I'm frustrated. Not because I'm not getting RP (I could stand to get more personally but if things are hopping I can get my share) but because every single thing that was posted I have tried and with negative results and more personally because I'm tired of busting my ass to do something and then just not getting feedback or interest from it. Surprisingly enough because I'm heated on the forums, I am a pretty chill dude in-game. I can roll with pretty much everything.
I don't know where you people with actual "ins" are, but you aren't where I am.
The only thing that did work was complaining OOC on the forums about how much I'm trash at PvE which landed me in a LS and allowed me access to the inner workings of a group of people, which allowed me access to various contacts. Even then there's still a struggle because I'm not affiliated with anyone's plot or FC.
Speakin' of, any of you have experience bartering with tonberries?
I'm not coming down on you or anything like that, but I feel that it is very, very important how a player presents themselves ooc. I personally read that post and found it unappealing. I personally questioned if I would want to RP with you based on the presentation of it and twisted my mouth and went 'eh'. Again, I have nothing against you as a person/player/toon/character but you're not selling anything to me there. That's just -me-, the guy who roleplays with almost anyone. Imagine for people who are more picky.
Presentation and attitude go a long, LONG way and a lot of people who may not be getting RP should perhaps examine themselves and determine if that is part of their block.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - ArmachiA - 03-28-2015
If forum posts make you not want to rp with someone, I just need to drop the forums completely. That's pretty judgmental just assuming they act like that in game. A forum is a discussion board, people get heated, it's not fair to judge them based on posts here.
Forums are a completely different sort of animal then being in the game, we talk shop here. Talking shop isn't always pleasant.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Berrod Armstrong - 03-28-2015
(03-28-2015, 05:19 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: If forum posts make you not want to rp with someone, I just need to drop the forums completely. That's pretty judgmental just assuming they act like that in game. A forum is a discussion board, people get heated, it's not fair to judge them based on posts here.It's not fair perhaps, but that's not going to stop it from happening! It is one of the things to consider, and as such, I mentioned it.
Forums are a completely different sort of animal then being in the game, we talk shop here. Talking shop isn't always pleasant.
There's no reason to make excuses or defend it; it is what it is, and what happens because of it...happens.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - ArmachiA - 03-28-2015
No offense, but on one hand you told Kellach he should change his behavior because it can be seen as ostracizing, but on the other hand you said people who ostracize because of his behavior that, well... it's just happens. People are people.
That's... a bit contradictory.
RE: The How To Help Newbie RPers In Making Connections Forum - Cato - 03-28-2015
I think one of my main concerns in light of recent posts is that people are stressing that communication is important on one hand but are then just implying that because someone posts in a blunt or direct manner that they're 'off-putting'.
I'm not too sure what to make of such mixed messages but as I've pointed out before some of the people who lace their words with sugar on this site are among the most spiteful and manipulative individuals in-game and are massive drama magnets. Despite that, their popularity and perceived status as 'gud rp' tends to protect them from any direct criticism.
On the other hand, quite a few of the 'blunt' posters who may put forth controversial and unpopular opinions have, in fact, turned out to be some of the friendliest and coolest people I've met thus far.
I'd post more in regards to that but I'm due to head out soon so it'll have to wait until later!
I mean, yeah - I can totally understand avoiding someone if they're dropping f-bombs and calling everyone racist slurs or whatever but I think more people need to strive to get to know someone before making sweeping judgements.
I'd post more in regards to that but I have to head out pretty soon so I'll have to elaborate further later on. Though I do think 'tone policing' and the equivalent is a slippery slope, especially in such a naturally diverse community.
I mean, debate is healthy! It's natural and it helps solve the world's problems be they major or trivial. It's no different online.
There's a lot of stuff posted on this site that I don't particularly agree with but that just serves to make things more interesting I think.