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Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Printable Version

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Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Blue - 03-14-2015

UPDATE: check http://gyazo.com/ed62d177c244475b02a7fc084ae81dbf

Quote:Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward?
Quote:In order to access Ishgard, you will first need to complete the main scenario quest "Before the Dawn," which will be implemented in FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Patch 2.55.

Can someone please point me an MMO who before now has released an expansion which required full clearance of the base game to even let you see its areas or unlock its jobs and was successful (making an assumption here, clues and images were shown where it seems that at least two of the jobs are based inside Ishgard).?

I've only played FFXI, I admit, so I'm ignorant in fact of MMOs out of that (and for this, please bear with me, I'm not one of those who think XIV=XI, but it's the only other MMO I have played, so it's the only one I can make comparisons with). But never has ever FFXI locked an expansion's access to its non-endgame areas such as cities or places where jobs are unlocked behind a lv75-must have, or a City-Missions-Completion requirement (Edit: Apparently Rise of the Zilart did in terms of storyline, but again, the open regions and jobs were not gated behind it). If I wanted to be a Blue Mage, all I needed was to be level 30 and to buy the Aht Urhgan expansion. There. And with some stealth I could even explore the Aht Urhgan areas, notoriously crawling with things that'd chew on my lv30 body in one go because, obviously, the expansion was made with high level players in mind, but not gated and restricting new players like me, or people who do not really feel like doing one hundred quests on every character and every alt like a zombie.

I did not expect to be allowed to fly or do side-quests or anything, but as I know a lot of people plan to move their RP there, I cannot help but feel pushed away a little, and I really wanted to do the MSQ as a gun job, so I've been holding back for that too. I like the MSQ (I RP it, as some of you may or may not remember), and to feel pressed on rushing through it just for the sake of even just seeing Ishgard and be with the other roleplayers makes me feel sad. Plus, a RL friend of mine is going to finally join the game, just for DRK (he loves DRK, always been it in FFXI and didn't come to XIV because it wasn't there), and I don't quite know how to explain that maybe he'll have to do all patches before he can even see it. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I think the statement I've quoted is safe enough to assume that at the very least, newcomers will not get to explore Ishgard.

Sorry, I really needed to steam this off. I just... I just don't get it. I don't want to have access to the Ishgard's Scenario without first becoming a Blade of Light, but at least let me through the freaking gate Frustrated...!

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Chris Ganale - 03-14-2015

I want to say TOR did that with Hutt Cartel expansion. But my main was already 50 and had cleared main story anyway.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Spethah - 03-14-2015

Welcome to "This game has an actual story and making you skip it will present confusion and spoilers". 

I'm happy this is being done. I hate people that skip pretty key content because "WOW NEW STUFF YEAH". This game has an actual story and one that progresses over time, unlike WoW where it's kinda to the side and the game is much more focused on the "oooh levels and raids and rolling pandas!". When we look at FFXIV's story, Ishgard doesn't want anything to do with you UNTIL 2.4 to which there's a sudden waver from them. 2.5 is making the wave bigger and I'm going to guess that 2.55 is where Ishgard caves in and actually lets us "Warrior's of Light" to enter. Without that waver, Ishgurrdurr said "get out". 

"But Rayyyy SE can just used a skip button!" - To which I say "well if the new kids want to be really confused over a rather interesting and different story then go right ahead. Don't go crying to squeenix when you find its not a good idea". Sadly SE (which is a Japanese company who heavily values story to the point of making Lightning Returns a 8 hour movie it was for me okay dont hate) won't do that because of said confusion. 


Again, I'm happy this is being done. 


As for games that did it and were successful, TOR did it and was quite successful. Then again I and a good umber of people were at 50 already when it came out so I just sat there and waited. 

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Nirri - 03-14-2015

Quote:I'm happy this is being done. I hate people that skip pretty key content because "WOW NEW STUFF YEAH". This game has an actual story and one that progresses over time, unlike WoW where it's kinda to the side and the game is much more focused on the "oooh levels and raids and rolling pandas!". When we look at FFXIV's story, Ishgard doesn't want anything to do with you UNTIL 2.4 to which there's a sudden waver from them. 2.5 is making the wave bigger and I'm going to guess that 2.55 is where Ishgard caves in and actually lets us "Warrior's of Light" to enter. Without that waver, Ishgurrdurr said "get out".

^^ This and that!

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Ashren Dotharl - 03-14-2015

It wouldn't make sense for them to open the gates to every tom, dick, and harry right off the bat, then for you to go through the MSQ and them to repeatedly tell you that you're not allowed in during the lvl 30-40 questline in Coerthas, or any of the content involving the Templars from 2.4 and 2.5 where they basically say "we like you, but you're not allowed inside."

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Blue - 03-14-2015

(03-14-2015, 11:30 PM)Ralyon Wrote: Welcome to "This game has an actual story and making you skip it will present confusion and spoilers". 

I'm happy this is being done. I hate people that skip pretty key content because "WOW NEW STUFF YEAH". This game has an actual story and one that progresses over time, unlike WoW where it's kinda to the side and the game is much more focused on the "oooh levels and raids and rolling pandas!". When we look at FFXIV's story, Ishgard doesn't want anything to do with you UNTIL 2.4 to which there's a sudden waver from them. 2.5 is making the wave bigger and I'm going to guess that 2.55 is where Ishgard caves in and actually lets us "Warrior's of Light" to enter. Without that waver, Ishgurrdurr said "get out". 

"But Rayyyy SE can just used a skip button!" - To which I say "well if the new kids want to be really confused over a rather interesting and different story then go right ahead. Don't go crying to squeenix when you find its not a good idea". Sadly SE (which is a Japanese company who heavily values story to the point of making Lightning Returns a 8 hour movie it was for me okay dont hate) won't do that because of said confusion. 


Again, I'm happy this is being done. 


As for games that did it and were successful, TOR did it and was quite successful. Then again I and a good umber of people were at 50 already when it came out so I just sat there and waited. 

It's not that I wanted to skip it. It's more than I've always wanted a gun job in XIV, and for that I've holded back on doing the MSQ, planning to do it as a gunner when it'd be released. In FFXI, I wanted to go through the main scenario (city missions) as a Blue Mage, so I've bought the expansion, got in Aht Urhgan, unlocked BLU, and then went back to do the city missions.

I'm just not used to expansions being branches of the previous version of the game rather than things of their own.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Chris Ganale - 03-14-2015

It is true that I want to do MSQ with both Yuuna and Ghost as gunners because those are their primary combat arms fields, but dammit, if I'm not able to... /sigh I'll just put up with it.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Marisa - 03-14-2015

World of Warcraft (aka the mmo by which all mmos are compared) often did this. You had to be a specific level and complete lengthy quest lines to access Dalaran or the Shrines in Panderia.   

Granted, they weren't super strict about it. There were some workarounds you could use, such as having a warlock summon you there, or getting a mage to make a portal for you. But the only natural way to get there was through questing.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Maril - 03-14-2015

I have two alts at 50 that needs to do /all/ of it.. Granted I have 3 months but that's a soulcrushing amount of hours. I also have to gear both of them up so they can even do the stuff the MSQ requires :/ So its not just completion hour, its also hours put into farming gear on characters I have no desire to progress in PvE, because they're there for RP and nothing else. 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's just OTT.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Ashren Dotharl - 03-14-2015

(03-14-2015, 11:37 PM)Blue Wrote: I'm just not used to expansions being branches of the previous version of the game rather than things of their own.

This is how most games treat expansions, considering the very word "expansion" essentially means to expand on the source. Take Wrath of the Lich King from WoW as an example, if you wanted to play a Death Knight you had to have a character already at lvl 50+ to be able to make a brand new character that was a Death Knight. TERA is another example, if you wanted to play a Reaper you needed to have a character at around lvl 50 (I don't remember the exact level) to unlock the option to make a new character as a Reaper.

With FFXIV it's not that much different, and for all we know the NPCs to unlock the new Jobs are not located in Ishgard, they haven't released any details on this so far so as far as we know they may just have a requirement like "must have at least one class at lvl 30 to unlock any of the new Jobs" and the NPCs are located in Dragonhead or something.

(03-14-2015, 11:49 PM)Sastra Wrote: I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's jut OTT.

Not only is the game fairly alt hostile, it's also not very accommodating when it comes to RPers, which considering there is no official RP server or community is understandable to a degree. They build things from a design perspective, not in a way that makes things easily accessible and convenient for RPers.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Erik Mynhier - 03-15-2015

(03-14-2015, 11:49 PM)Sastra Wrote: I have two alts at 50 that needs to do /all/ of it.. Granted I have 3 months but that's a soulcrushing amount of hours. I also have to gear both of them up so they can even do the stuff the MSQ requires :/ So its not just completion hour, its also hours put into farming gear on characters I have no desire to progress in PvE, because they're there for RP and nothing else. 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's jut OTT.

This is why I dont play alt.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Maril - 03-15-2015

(03-15-2015, 12:02 AM)Erik Mynhier Wrote:
(03-14-2015, 11:49 PM)Sastra Wrote: I have two alts at 50 that needs to do /all/ of it.. Granted I have 3 months but that's a soulcrushing amount of hours. I also have to gear both of them up so they can even do the stuff the MSQ requires :/ So its not just completion hour, its also hours put into farming gear on characters I have no desire to progress in PvE, because they're there for RP and nothing else. 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's jut OTT.

This is why I dont play alt.
I usually do not, but of all games this is the one where my brain decided to spark a dormant case of altitis to life >.<

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Erik Mynhier - 03-15-2015

(03-15-2015, 12:05 AM)Sastra Wrote:
(03-15-2015, 12:02 AM)Erik Mynhier Wrote:
(03-14-2015, 11:49 PM)Sastra Wrote: I have two alts at 50 that needs to do /all/ of it.. Granted I have 3 months but that's a soulcrushing amount of hours. I also have to gear both of them up so they can even do the stuff the MSQ requires :/ So its not just completion hour, its also hours put into farming gear on characters I have no desire to progress in PvE, because they're there for RP and nothing else. 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's jut OTT.

This is why I dont play alt.
I usually do not, but of all games this is the one where my brain decided to spark a dormant case of altitis to life >.<

I feel you, im temped from time to time, but erik takes so much energy and effort. Also the idea of having to do the whole damn msq and all the damn updates makes me want to jump off the top of the Naval.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Warren Castille - 03-15-2015

FFXI's Chains of Promathia. That is all.

RE: Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No". - Arelian - 03-15-2015

My primary problems with this are many, honestly.

1) New players and people that plain haven't done the MSQ up to 2.55 will have a lot of post-50 content to chew through and they'll likely be well above level 50 by the time they get to Heavensward content. It seems a little counter-intuitive to design content that's meant to be done at level 50 but you're physically unable to access it until level 51+ as a new player.

2) SE is going to have to really, really incentivize doing outdated content if they expect queue times for group-related thing to remain remotely acceptable. It'd be one thing if most of that was considered "optional" but doing stuff like the Keeper of the Lake and the HM primals is going to be a treat unless the roulette's are:
  • Pruned down to only include necessary things (like the story roulette is now, but expanded slightly).
  • Highly incentivized more than the current story roulette is. 
3) It just seems silly to me to totally lock people out of what sounds like it'll be a new hub area until they reach a certain threshold. Let people go and see why they bought the expansion immediately, even if they can't take any quests or anything. I can understand locking the story content behind a gate, to a degree. You need context to really care. But locking the main new city? Why?

Of course, that's all assuming that the quest they mentioned is only completable after finishing the rest of the story up. It could very well be a gigantic catch-up/flash back quest that basically just gets you up to speed after you've hit level 50.

(03-15-2015, 12:39 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: FFXI's Chains of Promathia. That is all.
I don't remember if CoP required you to clear RotZ first. All I really remember are shitty level caps that required you to keep ALL OF YOUR GEAR FOREVER.