+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') (/showthread.php?tid=11487)
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 04:47 AM)Nakoli Chalahko Wrote:(05-08-2015, 04:40 AM)Blue Wrote: The lore is what the game provides, not what the RP community decides.Which Ferne has stated, categorically, is that only one person became a White Mage through the WHM job quest.
yup. Lore =! Game mechanics. Those are two very different things
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 04:50 AM)KitKat Wrote: And who's to say that there aren't more White Mages than the WoL? A little blurb in a job quest? How many of you actually Roleplay out your job quests? Did all of you Paladins get set up by Jenlyns and then redeem him when he learned the error of his ways? Did all our Alchemists try to resurrect that one woman? Did our Dragoons become the Azure Dragoon?
Why, then, is it okay to utterly disregard other job quests but not White Mage?
The Devs. The Devs said it.
White Mage Lore is the only class that is barred by a separate race of demi-gods who can decide whether or not someone becomes one or not. And they've decided no one gets to be one except the protectors of the shroud, the Padjal. The ELEMENTALS have banned people from being White Mages, period. And the Devs have stated only the WoL ever becomes one.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - KitKat - 05-08-2015
But you're disregarding the same thing from other quests, just like I pointed out. Things that the "devs said".
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Blue - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 04:43 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: We disregard it because we aren't playing the outside of Eorzea, Echo having, Blessing of Hydaelyn, Warrior of Light Chosen one. We're playing other people in the world. The side characters. Not every single Eorzean is from outside of Eorzea and THAT's who we're deciding to play - the rest of the population. That's completely lore appropriate, I have no idea what your getting at here?
I don't argue why you disregard it. I argue that you shouldn't use "lore" as a shield against those who don't disregard it. They are not breaking the lore, they are doing what the GM (the videogame) is telling them they can do.
Use any other word, but not "lore" or "canon". That is unfair and makes people feel bad when they shouldn't. Common etiquette =/= What the game dictates/allows.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 04:54 AM)Blue Wrote:(05-08-2015, 04:43 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: We disregard it because we aren't playing the outside of Eorzea, Echo having, Blessing of Hydaelyn, Warrior of Light Chosen one. We're playing other people in the world. The side characters. Not every single Eorzean is from outside of Eorzea and THAT's who we're deciding to play - the rest of the population. That's completely lore appropriate, I have no idea what your getting at here?
I don't argue why you disregard it. I argue that you shouldn't use "lore" as a shield against those who don't disregard it. They are not breaking the lore, they are doing what the GM (the videogame) is telling them they can do.
Use any other word, but not "lore" or "canon". That is unfair and makes people feel bad when they shouldn't. Common etiquette =/= What the game dictates/allows.
Again, Lore =! Game mechanics.
They've came out and said the Lightening Event wasn't Canon. There's no such thing as the Echo bonus in lore, etc etc. The devs are the Word of God. They write the lore, they tell us what to follow. It's that simple.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 04:53 AM)KitKat Wrote: But you're disregarding the same thing from other quests, just like I pointed out. Things that the "devs said".
There are no other quests except the main quest that allows people to become White Mages and due to the nature of the class (where the Elementals have banned people from being WHMs) a lot of people believe you can't play one, and that quest is for the WoL only, which the devs have said. I don't understand what you mean.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - KitKat - 05-08-2015
So, these paladins and dragoons and monks have all gotten their soul stones through other means?
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
Yes. Paladins easily become paladins because of the lore by just... talking to the Sultansworn. They accept ANYONE who wants to be one, calling them "Free Paladins." Paladin is actually the EASIEST job lore-wise to say you are, hence why you see so many. Dragoons go through trials in Ishguard to become one and anyone can undertake the trials, however only ONE person can be the "Azure Dragoon" who holds the eye of Nidhogg (Which I don't believe any roleplayer has ever claimed to be honestly).
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Blue - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 04:55 AM)ArmachiA Wrote:(05-08-2015, 04:54 AM)Blue Wrote:(05-08-2015, 04:43 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: We disregard it because we aren't playing the outside of Eorzea, Echo having, Blessing of Hydaelyn, Warrior of Light Chosen one. We're playing other people in the world. The side characters. Not every single Eorzean is from outside of Eorzea and THAT's who we're deciding to play - the rest of the population. That's completely lore appropriate, I have no idea what your getting at here?
I don't argue why you disregard it. I argue that you shouldn't use "lore" as a shield against those who don't disregard it. They are not breaking the lore, they are doing what the GM (the videogame) is telling them they can do.
Use any other word, but not "lore" or "canon". That is unfair and makes people feel bad when they shouldn't. Common etiquette =/= What the game dictates/allows.
Again, Lore =! Game mechanics.
They've came out and said the Lightening Event wasn't Canon. There's no such thing as the Echo bonus in lore, etc etc. The devs are the Word of God. They write the lore, they tell us what to follow. It's that simple.
Exactly, and they tell us that you can be any job you can unlock. To disregard what the NPCs and quests give us is, as you said, a decision you (the community) made, and not something the Devs imposed. As I've said before, the game also says we are not from Eorzea and that we should be new to all its customs (that's why NPCs always explain everything and act like we don't know anything beforehand when talking of any aspect of Eorzea). The moment you decide to not respect even this one line, you are breaking the lore.
AND THAT'S FINE AND LEGIT. Because maybe you want to RP something else.
So can we please stop telling others they are breaking the lore and we aren't? Cause that is a lie. You can look at it from any direction you want, but it is how it is. We cannot dictate that someone cannot be X job, because the game allows that.
Simply walk away and move on if it bothers you that much, but don't go telling that person what they are doing is wrong. They are not. I'm probably breaking the lore more by RPing an icemancer (Jet'a is a black mage that only uses ice spells, though more elaborated, to compensate), than they are by RPing a White Mage.
Seriously, not to brag or promote, but our RP group has multiple people of certain jobs, and we have also RPd job quests, and all of the participants manage to be happy at each other and what each of us decided to do with our jobs. There is never arguments of this sort. I really wish this harmony could be expanded and reach out to the "open world", but it's sad how impossible this seems to be because IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE DON'T DO WHAT I DON'T ALLOW MY OWN CHARACTER TO DO...
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Aduu Avagnar - 05-08-2015
If we truly must have this again:
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 05:04 AM)Blue Wrote:(05-08-2015, 04:55 AM)ArmachiA Wrote:(05-08-2015, 04:54 AM)Blue Wrote:(05-08-2015, 04:43 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: We disregard it because we aren't playing the outside of Eorzea, Echo having, Blessing of Hydaelyn, Warrior of Light Chosen one. We're playing other people in the world. The side characters. Not every single Eorzean is from outside of Eorzea and THAT's who we're deciding to play - the rest of the population. That's completely lore appropriate, I have no idea what your getting at here?
I don't argue why you disregard it. I argue that you shouldn't use "lore" as a shield against those who don't disregard it. They are not breaking the lore, they are doing what the GM (the videogame) is telling them they can do.
Use any other word, but not "lore" or "canon". That is unfair and makes people feel bad when they shouldn't. Common etiquette =/= What the game dictates/allows.
Again, Lore =! Game mechanics.
They've came out and said the Lightening Event wasn't Canon. There's no such thing as the Echo bonus in lore, etc etc. The devs are the Word of God. They write the lore, they tell us what to follow. It's that simple.
Exactly, and they tell us that you can be any job you can unlock. To disregard what the NPCs and quests give us is, as you said, a decision you (the community) made, and not something the Devs imposed. As I've said before, the game also says we are not from Eorzea and that we should be new to all its customs (that's why NPCs always explain everything and act like we don't know anything beforehand when talking of any aspect of Eorzea). The moment you decide to not respect even this one line, you are breaking the lore.
AND THAT'S FINE AND LEGIT. Because maybe you want to RP something else.
So can we please stop telling others they are breaking the lore and we aren't? Cause that is a lie. You can look at it from any direction you want, but it is how it is. We cannot dictate that someone cannot be X job, because the game allows that.
Simply walk away and move on if it bothers you that much, but don't go telling that person what they are doing is wrong. They are not. I'm probably breaking the lore more by RPing an icemancer (Jet'a is a black mage that only uses ice spells, though more elaborated, to compensate), than they are by RPing a White Mage.
Seriously, not to brag or promote, but our RP group has multiple people of certain jobs, and we have also RPd job quests, and all of the participants manage to be happy at each other and what each of us decided to do with our jobs. There is never arguments of this sort. I really wish this harmony could be expanded and reach out to the "open world", but it's sad how impossible this seems to be because IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE DON'T DO WHAT I DON'T ALLOW MY OWN CHARACTER TO DO...
We disregard it because those quest are only for the Warrior of Light, and we're not the Warrior of Light. And even if you were, the Devs outright stat that the job quest was done by ONE person. They said it at fanfest. So your WoL was a WHM, but in another universe someone elses was a DRG. They've SAID this.
You keep conflating Game mechanics with world lore. From the WoL POV we can do pretty much anything. But we're just ordinary people. We aren't PLAYING a WoL ( to which the devs also stated, there is only one of). We're actually playing it EXACTLY the way the devs want us too, that there's only one WoL somewhere out there. The devs said it was your character specifically or it was derplander if you choose to disregard it.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Verilys - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 04:55 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Again, Lore =! Game mechanics.
They've came out and said the Lightening Event wasn't Canon. There's no such thing as the Echo bonus in lore, etc etc. The devs are the Word of God. They write the lore, they tell us what to follow. It's that simple.
I'm typically cautious of what devs say in off-the-cuff situations, such as panels. It depends on context. I'll need to check out the live recording of where that particular quote from White Mages comes from to say anything about that one in particular, so I won't reference that in particular!
However, devs (even lore devs) will often respond from a mechanical point of view and the gameplay's overall story narrative, rather than from the lens of lore as roleplayers tend to see it. So, I'm really, really wary of saying that they're the word of god with absolute certainty. They tend to think of the game AS that main story arc; not the rest of the world, not the side characters, the people who are making their quiet living in amongst all the other stuff going on.
But as I mentioned earlier, I'm also new. So, I don't know how reliable Fernehalwes is. Other people would have a better perspective there.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - KitKat - 05-08-2015
Again, my point stands. Why is it all right for these people to get to have what they want by going about it differently than the quests but White Mages cannot? All you're trying to do here is police how this "community" plays.
By the way, these devs that you hold as the so-called "Word of God" have also explicitly stated that other groups do have access to White Magic. Are we disregarding that?
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Aduu Avagnar - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 05:04 AM)Blue Wrote: Exactly, and they tell us that you can be any job you can unlock. To disregard what the NPCs and quests give us is, as you said, a decision you (the community) made, and not something the Devs imposed. As I've said before, the game also says we are not from Eorzea and that we should be new to all its customs (that's why NPCs always explain everything and act like we don't know anything beforehand when talking of any aspect of Eorzea). The moment you decide to not respect even this one line, you are breaking the lore.
They state that you the character of the MSQ are an outsider. People can choose to RP as members of the general community and that is, surprise surprise not breaking lore.
Quote:AND THAT'S FINE AND LEGIT. Because maybe you want to RP something else.The majority of people that follow a closer lore adherence do not take part in that. We try to simply walk away and move on. But then we get shouted at for not being inclusive enough.
So can we please stop telling others they are breaking the lore and we aren't? Cause that is a lie. You can look at it from any direction you want, but it is how it is. We cannot dictate that someone cannot be X job, because the game allows that.
Simply walk away and move on if it bothers you that much, but don't go telling that person what they are doing is wrong. They are not. I'm probably breaking the lore more by RPing an icemancer (Jet'a is a black mage that only uses ice spells, though more elaborated, to compensate), than they are by RPing a White Mage.
Seriously, not to brag or promote, but our RP group has multiple people of certain jobs, and we have also RPd job quests, and all of the participants manage to be happy at each other and what each of us decided to do with our jobs. There is never arguments of this sort. I really wish this harmony could be expanded and reach out to the "open world", but it's sad how impossible this seems to be because IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE DON'T DO WHAT I DON'T ALLOW MY OWN CHARACTER TO DO...
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Aduu Avagnar - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 05:07 AM)KitKat Wrote: Again, my point stands. Why is it all right for these people to get to have what they want by going about it differently than the quests but White Mages cannot? All you're trying to do here is police how this "community" plays.please see my above post.
By the way, these devs that you hold as the so-called "Word of God" have also explicitly stated that other groups do have access to White Magic. Are we disregarding that?
they do not currently have acces to it, they are simply working to achieve said aims. Come heavensward that could all change and be the focus of the WHM quest line, but until now, only the Padjal and the MSQ WOL are the only people with it.