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+--- Thread: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') (/showthread.php?tid=11487)
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Aaron - 05-07-2015
(05-07-2015, 09:21 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:I've met some. It was pretty ridiculous.Â(05-07-2015, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote: Just another two cents. As a person who has a knack for writing descriptive lore myself and has even studied the lore of many sources (Anime, All the star wars and to a lesser extent, some FF games) I noticed no lore is ever 100% non ambiguous. A lot of gray areas are left open to promote imagination of the stories setting.Â
So the lore addicts are in themselves really are setting themselves up for failure if they're trying to stick 100% to lore as that's the thing, there's always a gray area somewhere.
I keep seeing this argument be made and it's pretty much.. not how Lore people think. There are some parts of lore that we believe are 100% confirmed (That some people obviously don't believe - I.E WHite mage) but most of the time you can't follow lore 100%. It's impossible, there's not enough lore.
Basically what we do is Inductive logic to see if SOMETHING would be possible.
By using other pieces of evidence in lore, people decide on their own if the gray areas would be possible.
Using the Miqote Dragoon thing: Using inductive logic - Miqote came over to Eorzea awhile ago, before Ishguard closed their doors. Some will make the logical leap that Miqote dragoon can happen because of that - which there is evidence to support. And some may decide it's not a thing.
MOST Lore people are like that, I've actually never met someone who thought lore compliance meant "Sticking with the lore 100%" because it's not logically sound.
Not gonna say their names though because im not that kinda evil lol
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - KitKat - 05-08-2015
(05-07-2015, 11:44 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
I'm a pretty staunch advocate for allowing players to RP as a White Mage. My post history can attest to that. I do not actually play one, however. This opinion is more a broad generalization than actual truth.
In all honesty, this whole argument is like politics. Too many people lean too far in one direction and are unwilling to meet in the middle. You know, for all my bluster about roleplaying as a White Mage, I actually consider myself more on the lore nazi side of the fence. My point is that there is a middle ground, a ceasefire zone if you will. We should all strive to congregate around there so we have more people we can have pretendy fun times with. Sure, there will be outliers: people so strict on the lore that they won't budge, and people so liberal with the lore that they're basically Kryptonian.
Most of us should be able to reasonably meet in the middle.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Gone. - 05-08-2015
Meeting somewhere in the middle is a nice thought, but it takes the willingness of both parties to make that happen. Unfortunately I don't see that happening here.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
Isn't, "I'm gonna do what I want and you do what you want and we won't bug each other" meeting in the middle? Seems like a fair compromise to me.
Cuz I hate to tell you "Players should be able to play White Mages" isn't a middle ground. It's the opposite of my belief that they shouldn't.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - KitKat - 05-08-2015
It's not meeting in the middle. It's refusing to even meet in the first place.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - V'aleera - 05-08-2015
In an attempt to move this discussion away from the off-topic WHM argument that's brewing up again (which I think should be had, but in it's own thread and not this one), I am going to make a statement directed to the original topic that people are free to agree or disagree with:
If there is a kind of RP you do not like, the onus is on you to avoid it. You are not entitled to having your beliefs regarding lore or roleplay catered to. No one is obligated to filter their ideas to suit your tastes. The only roleplay you have a right to restrict and limit is your own.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Aduu Avagnar - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 01:56 AM)KitKat Wrote: It's not meeting in the middle. It's refusing to even meet in the first place.OK, what then, is the offering of meeting in the middle by the person who is wanting to play the concept that the person does not believe is supported by the lore?
as I do meet in the middle. If they can make it plausible to be, then sure go for it. but /they/ have to make it plausible.
and I agree with Intaki. And I will personally avoid people who I don't believe mesh with my ideal of the Lore. I think the issue is that people take the 'you can rp what you want' and believe it to mean 'people have to rp with you whilst you rp what you want' which is patently not true.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Gone. - 05-08-2015
A willingness to entertain questions as to 'why' while providing the necessary plausibility. At least that's what I'd try and do.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
Which is done 95% of the time, except in the case of White Mage specifically.
Because there are many many people who believe the lore does. not. budge on it and they are perfectly within their right to believe that. You're telling people who are open to a Miqote Dragoon or a Black Mage (Which is VERY difficult in lore to pull off) because of those grey areas, that they also have to be open to White Mage when they believe the lore very explicitly says that PC's cannot be one. There is no grey area.
White Mage lore is the EXCEPTION, it isn't the rule and White Mage players need to recognize it's a VERY polarizing issue (As we have seen).
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Verilys - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 03:05 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Which is done 95% of the time, except in the case of White Mage specifically.
Because there are many many people who believe the lore does. not. budge on it and they are perfectly within their right to believe that. You're telling people who are open to a Miqote Dragoon or a Black Mage (Which is VERY difficult in lore to pull off) because of those grey areas, that they also have to be open to White Mage when they believe the lore very explicitly says that PC's cannot be one. There is no grey area.
White Mage lore is the EXCEPTION, it isn't the rule and White Mage players need to recognize it's a VERY polarizing issue (As we have seen).
As a new player, I've found the discussion on the White Mage stuff very interesting, but I've been having difficulty finding explicit statements that'd conclude against players playing as one. I don't want to beat on the topic further either -- would someone be able to message me and point me towards the resources?
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
Honestly? Just read this thread for both sides of the issue (It does get heated at the end but this is the rpc so
) http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=10545
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Blue - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 03:38 AM)Verilys Wrote:(05-08-2015, 03:05 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Which is done 95% of the time, except in the case of White Mage specifically.
Because there are many many people who believe the lore does. not. budge on it and they are perfectly within their right to believe that. You're telling people who are open to a Miqote Dragoon or a Black Mage (Which is VERY difficult in lore to pull off) because of those grey areas, that they also have to be open to White Mage when they believe the lore very explicitly says that PC's cannot be one. There is no grey area.
White Mage lore is the EXCEPTION, it isn't the rule and White Mage players need to recognize it's a VERY polarizing issue (As we have seen).
As a new player, I've found the discussion on the White Mage stuff very interesting, but I've been having difficulty finding explicit statements that'd conclude against players playing as one. I don't want to beat on the topic further either -- would someone be able to message me and point me towards the resources?
The truth is the lore is not against the player playing as a white mage. There is a quest for it. Just as there are quests that say you are the WoL and other stuff. The majority of the RP community however decided to disregard that.
As a MSQ RPer I say that the community's decision is FINE and legit, but nobody should use "lore" as a shield, because the very first break in the lore is to decide to not acknowledge that you are from outside of Eorzea, one of the Warriors of Light, and a White Mage. The lore is what the game provides, not what the RP community decides. So please, let us stop using lore as a weapon for jobs, because it is utterly wrong. I am not breaking the lore by playing X job, I am breaking your personal approach at it, your own version of the lore, which is way different from the game's. I am doing something you, and perhaps the majority of the community, don't like, not something the game doesn't allow.
To give my final word in this thread, my RP group has three (or four? I forget) IC white mages as of now and several dragoons and other things (we just don't really make a big deal of it, as how someone fights in a group of fighters is not that much relevant). If you ever want to RP as a job and are looking for like-minded people, look us up. You don't have to RP the MSQ with us if you don't want to, we're very open to just do social RP as well (and we won't make mention of MSQ during it).
*Raises the shield of peace, forecasting flames and hellfire*
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - ArmachiA - 05-08-2015
We disregard it because we aren't playing the outside of Eorzea, Echo having, Blessing of Hydaelyn, Warrior of Light Chosen one. We're playing other people in the world. The side characters. Not every single Eorzean is from outside of Eorzea and THAT's who we're deciding to play - the rest of the population. That's completely lore appropriate, I have no idea what your getting at here?
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - Aduu Avagnar - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 04:40 AM)Blue Wrote: The lore is what the game provides, not what the RP community decides.Which Ferne has stated, categorically, is that only one person became a White Mage through the WHM job quest.
RE: How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy') - KitKat - 05-08-2015
And who's to say that there aren't more White Mages than the WoL? A little blurb in a job quest? How many of you actually Roleplay out your job quests? Did all of you Paladins get set up by Jenlyns and then redeem him when he learned the error of his ways? Did all our Alchemists try to resurrect that one woman? Did our Dragoons become the Azure Dragoon?
Why, then, is it okay to utterly disregard other job quests but not White Mage?