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The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - Printable Version

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The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-15-2015

Legit Talk Thread

Hello all, I feel there has been a recent trend on RPC towards sanitizing discussion. Discussions have seemed to break off into two categories, either hugbox threads where no one disagrees with anything. Or threads with 'disagreement' which are heavily moderated, as people snipe at each other passive aggressively, since speaking their mind would cause them to be warned.

So this is the legit talk thread about that issue. Here are the rules of the legit talk thread.

1) You can only talk about people DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY who have posted in this thread. Posting in this thread puts you under the purview of the legit talk thread.

2) If you post in this thread, your first post must include a disclaimer that you understand the rules.

3) You can say whatever you want that does not violate the overall rules of the website. If you think I'm being a fucking idiot for thinking how I do, I'd rather just hear it.

4) No Images AT ALL. No empty quoting, no single word responses.

5) You are not allowed to respond to a post for thirty minutes after it is posted. Sit back, have a cup of tea, think about what is being said, and then post. Sometimes I feel these threads are a race to the bottom, with people trying to get in the last word before the thread is closed.

Here is the disclaimer you should add to your first post

Quote:I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

The first question I will ask is:
What do you think of this thread? Do you agree with what I think has happened in the RPC community? Was the RPC community always this way?

Remember, please do not respond for 30 minutes.
Edit: You can respond to a /Post/ in thirty minutes, so you can discuss the content of my post now, but not Franz's. Give it some time to absorb.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - Unnamed Mercenary - 05-15-2015

Quote:I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

If I say anything calling you it, it's against the forum rules. Since you've had some issues with the elaborated version, I'll mark the important part in red from the "old" ones. By them, I'm not supposed to admit in the thread I think it's stupid for you to try to bait people.

Quote:1. Respect: "Be Excellent to Each Other." Please respect all fellow posters and role-players on these boards. That means no flame wars, no discrimination, no godmoding, no metagaming, no harassment, and no snarky attitudes. Additionally, don't call out individuals or groups by name on the forums for their actions; if you want to discuss the actions without mentioning those performing them, however, that's acceptable. Part of our respect for you is that we will never display ads, use third-party analytics tools, send you unsolicited e-mail, or provide your e-mail address to a third party except as required by law.

edit: dammit. My computer clock deceived me. Ignore for 4 more minutes.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - g0ne - 05-15-2015

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith.

Well, first off, I think this is a very valid and important thread you've posted up. Very critical, if I must say so, considering the RPC as of late. And I really hope that the thread maintains a healthy, good discussion, and doesn't derail like many others because I see it being a very well thought idea.

Secondly, I have to agree with you completely about the situation of the RPC as of late. There's the happy threads (and to be honest I like them, I post on them) and then there's the discussion threads. Now, I've said this countless times, discussion, heck, even argument is not a negative thing. It's people sharing their opinions and supporting their views with solid debate. Discussion or argument does not equate to anything aggressive, or personal. It's merely the views and opinions of a person, and since each individual is unique, yes, views and opinions differ. That does not mean it has to turn out into a volatile and readily combustible battlefield. 

I think we need to accept that every person is different and that our opinions and views are not an obligation upon others. The same goes for others. Sure, listen to their side of the argument, but no one's forcing you to accept it. And so, there's no need to go aggressive or hostile or lash out. Listen to things with a calm head. No one's forcing their values on you. But it's also very important that you respect others, and their values and principles, as well. Very important. 

Lastly, I'll be honest. When I first came here, I was really really happy. I thought this was one of the best communities I had ever seen on the Internet. But lately, even I'm scared. Because the RPC is like a home to all of us. And we're trying our best to portray a negative image of this home, and try to set it aflame. So, we have to figure out what's going wrong, and make this the awesome community it has the greatest potential of being.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - Melodia - 05-15-2015

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith.

The thread is a valid one. I think it's healthy to sit down and discuss things in a more meta sense about the community and the site. So I think the thread has merit. Now....how the moderators may see it is a different thing.

I have been in this community for a year now. I've seen a lot of things. A lot of things. Hell....the page is up at my work every single day all day. Only time I am not on is when it's the weekend. I've seen great forum rp, interesting discussions, and even seen some new folks come and thrive. I've also seen some things that downright shocked me...some of the negativity....brashness toward a subject....it's surprising is all. This is my first MMO ever. My first foray into rp in a game like this. So some of the negative stuff shocks me at times.

I've not aided in things though. I am introspective enough to know that at times I've tossed lit matches onto gasoline here. Said things that have either hurt my standing in the community or have put me at odds with folks I don't want to be at odds with. There're people right now who don't speak to me that I wish to whatever God is out there would, but I can't force them, and know I've made my bed and need to lie in it. But I digress....my point is....I have been part of that negativity.

I wouldn't say the recent threads are bad. I find them to be fun...sometimes when getting into a heavy discussion about Au Ra or housing or White Mages....a simple hug thread or compliment thread can be a nice relief. Like a caucus at work when the Unions and I are having a heated discussion. That little break helps refocus....so I look at those threads like that. Have to be able to have some fun while we're here or we may all just butt heads a lot. And I like that the site offers a lot of options....some are not into forum rp. Some don't care for heavy lore discussions. And others don't do screenshots, etc. But the variety of threads and subjects allows for us all to co-exist and share the site.

That's my two cents. I enjoy the community and the site.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 01:00 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: If I say anything calling you it, it's against the forum rules. Since you've had some issues with the elaborated version, I'll mark the important part in red from the "old" ones. By them, I'm not supposed to admit in the thread I think it's stupid for you to try to bait people.

Quote:1. Respect: "Be Excellent to Each Other." Please respect all fellow posters and role-players on these boards. That means no flame wars, no discrimination, no godmoding, no metagaming, no harassment, and no snarky attitudes. Additionally, don't call out individuals or groups by name on the forums for their actions; if you want to discuss the actions without mentioning those performing them, however, that's acceptable. Part of our respect for you is that we will never display ads, use third-party analytics tools, send you unsolicited e-mail, or provide your e-mail address to a third party except as required by law.

edit: dammit. My computer clock deceived me. Ignore for 4 more minutes.

Thanks for hopping in Merc.

Yes, I understand that that rule could lead to a violation of the site rules. If that happens, we shall see what happens, no? I view this as a test bed, and a way to discuss certain issues. I make no secret of the fact that I'm uncomfortable with some of those rules, and that I think they can create, in the long run, more hostility instead of less.

Do you think if I don't agree with the rules of this website, I just shouldn't post here? I'm asking this honestly. Do you think every member should agree to every rule?

Also this has already illuminated an issue, the site clock is 4 minutes behind GMT.

Eleni, I'll respond to your post in a little bit, but thank you for joining us.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 01:02 PM)Eleni Wrote: I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith.

Well, first off, I think this is a very valid and important thread you've posted up. Very critical, if I must say so, considering the RPC as of late. And I really hope that the thread maintains a healthy, good discussion, and doesn't derail like many others because I see it being a very well thought idea.

Secondly, I have to agree with you completely about the situation of the RPC as of late. There's the happy threads (and to be honest I like them, I post on them) and then there's the discussion threads. Now, I've said this countless times, discussion, heck, even argument is not a negative thing. It's people sharing their opinions and supporting their views with solid debate. Discussion or argument does not equate to anything aggressive, or personal. It's merely the views and opinions of a person, and since each individual is unique, yes, views and opinions differ. That does not mean it has to turn out into a volatile and readily combustible battlefield. 

I think we need to accept that every person is different and that our opinions and views are not an obligation upon others. The same goes for others. Sure, listen to their side of the argument, but no one's forcing you to accept it. And so, there's no need to go aggressive or hostile or lash out. Listen to things with a calm head. No one's forcing their values on you. But it's also very important that you respect others, and their values and principles, as well. Very important. 

Lastly, I'll be honest. When I first came here, I was really really happy. I thought this was one of the best communities I had ever seen on the Internet. But lately, even I'm scared. Because the RPC is like a home to all of us. And we're trying our best to portray a negative image of this home, and try to set it aflame. So, we have to figure out what's going wrong, and make this the awesome community it has the greatest potential of being.

I agree with most of this.

I do want to bring up one point you said and elaborate on it though. I don't think this community is bad, or it has gone way downhill. I've been here for about 18 months (little longer) and I feel like in reality it hasn't changed all that much.

People still used to get mad about certain threads, topics would get closed, and people would argue strongly. However it was never viewed as a great cancer, or things going to shit.

It was just how it was, sometimes people get mad and disagree about things. I don't think there is any way to prevent it from time to time.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - g0ne - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 01:51 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(05-15-2015, 01:02 PM)Eleni Wrote: I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith.

Well, first off, I think this is a very valid and important thread you've posted up. Very critical, if I must say so, considering the RPC as of late. And I really hope that the thread maintains a healthy, good discussion, and doesn't derail like many others because I see it being a very well thought idea.

Secondly, I have to agree with you completely about the situation of the RPC as of late. There's the happy threads (and to be honest I like them, I post on them) and then there's the discussion threads. Now, I've said this countless times, discussion, heck, even argument is not a negative thing. It's people sharing their opinions and supporting their views with solid debate. Discussion or argument does not equate to anything aggressive, or personal. It's merely the views and opinions of a person, and since each individual is unique, yes, views and opinions differ. That does not mean it has to turn out into a volatile and readily combustible battlefield. 

I think we need to accept that every person is different and that our opinions and views are not an obligation upon others. The same goes for others. Sure, listen to their side of the argument, but no one's forcing you to accept it. And so, there's no need to go aggressive or hostile or lash out. Listen to things with a calm head. No one's forcing their values on you. But it's also very important that you respect others, and their values and principles, as well. Very important. 

Lastly, I'll be honest. When I first came here, I was really really happy. I thought this was one of the best communities I had ever seen on the Internet. But lately, even I'm scared. Because the RPC is like a home to all of us. And we're trying our best to portray a negative image of this home, and try to set it aflame. So, we have to figure out what's going wrong, and make this the awesome community it has the greatest potential of being.

I agree with most of this.

I do want to bring up one point you said and elaborate on it though. I don't think this community is bad, or it has gone way downhill. I've been here for about 18 months (little longer) and I feel like in reality it hasn't changed all that much.

People still used to get mad about certain threads, topics would get closed, and people would argue strongly. However it was never viewed as a great cancer, or things going to shit.

It was just how it was, sometimes people get mad and disagree about things. I don't think there is any way to prevent it from time to time.

No. I'm not saying that the community is bad. I would never say that. I said that it's one the best communities I've seen, and I do believe that. I've seen and met and gotten to know lots of awesome people here. I mean it. 

But when I first joined I didn't notice so many threads full of discussion wars. Maybe it's just me but recently I've felt like there's been more of an influx of aggression and threads are going haywire more. 

I, however, will stand with my opinion that we seemed to have gotten scarier. And that were scaring people away. New and old alike. Maybe scaring isn't the correct term but something along those lines.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - OttoVann - 05-15-2015

Someone real talk me, I'm on my phone so I can't be too verbose.

Editing in a thought of mine

In that thread I made about people who are nasty outside the RPC, certain people came into the thread with nothing to add, but also with a clear and concerted effort to derail it because they didn't like it (and they very are guilty of being nasty about users here on other sites, so likely felt threatened by the thread). I'm not terribly upset by the closing of the thread, but I am surprised, as an outsider looking in, that someone can seemingly push mods around like that into closing threads they don't like. The site is great otherwise, and despite that still is.

I can only encourage more users to use the looking for connections subforum, meet new people and grow.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - Desu Nee - 05-15-2015

Quote: Wrote:I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

I've said that once before, but I'm really not a person of writing long, exhaustive walls of text because I'm a really strong believer that a short, well intentioned text is better than a massive venting wall, which is more to vent the writers frustration that truly putting their point on an objective view. I post images, or "memes" a lot not because I want to derail, or to "hugbox", but because I feel people here come to have fun, enjoy themselves, set RP dates and forum rps, discuss lore and what's not. RPC is an instrument.

So I'm gonna be short with it. The problem isn't in the "hugboxes" or the "close admin acting" This is not a wild-west, and as I said, some people here are looking for fun, and to set rp, not to be sniped or passively agressively shot. Not throwing names, but I believe that, as Natalie said, the agressiveness was always here, but some events behind the curtains, as well as the expansion coming, coupled with the recent discussions going to the gutter gave a spike we're all noticing, and flailing around, and repeatly mentioning this. We got it, but this is personal issue of some users, which doesn't go into Admin's role, they're not psychiatrists, and we can't really say names because it's against the rules and what's not.


In short, talking about this constantly won't solve the issue. The persons who does this a lot need to be adressed.


I don't know though, I'm not a psychologist.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - Hyrist - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 12:34 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: The first question I will ask is:
What do you think of this thread? Do you agree with what I think has happened in the RPC community? Was the RPC community always this way?


First off, *Epic voice engaged* DISCLAIMER!


Quote:I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith


With that out of the way. I think it's an interesting idea having a talk thread. I'm not all certain what sort of topics will end up sprouting from this, but I feel as if it'll be a productive thread, non the less. The 30 minute rule is intriguing. 


So Topic on my mind.


Is anyone else as hesitant as I am to post? Most often I browse these forums and often find myself wanting to share things but for some reasons I'm like. "Well, if I share this, what's the encouragement to get them to RP with me? They'll already know." Or "Am I really ok with interjecting this opinion into an ongoing conversation? I don't want to seem rude." 

I'm always on the hint of doing something or posting something, then I just find myself taking a step back and go. "Nah." It's never anyone in particular, just an overall shyness. Heck, I've got a huge idea for RP connections but I stopped and pestered poor Freelancewizard privately to get his opinion privately before even trying to post it. 

So, does anyone else get this sort of 'cold feet' just with the RPC?

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 02:30 PM)OttoVann Wrote: Someone real talk me, I'm on my phone so I can't be too verbose.

Editing in a thought of mine

In that thread I made about people who are nasty outside the RPC, certain people came into the thread with nothing to add, but also with a clear and concerted effort to derail it because they didn't like it (and they very are guilty of being nasty about users here on other sites, so likely felt threatened by the thread). I'm not terribly upset by the closing of the thread, but I am surprised, as an outsider looking in, that someone can seemingly push mods around like that into closing threads they don't like. The site is great otherwise, and despite that still is.

I can only encourage more users to use the looking for connections subforum, meet new people and grow.

Hello Otto, please read the thread rules. Please do mention people directly or indorectly or refrain from posting in this thread.

Edit: phrases like "certain people"

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 02:47 PM)Desu Nee Wrote:
Quote: Wrote:I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

I've said that once before, but I'm really not a person of writing long, exhaustive walls of text because I'm a really strong believer that a short, well intentioned text is better than a massive venting wall, which is more to vent the writers frustration that truly putting their point on an objective view. I post images, or "memes" a lot not because I want to derail, or to "hugbox", but because I feel people here come to have fun, enjoy themselves, set RP dates and forum rps, discuss lore and what's not. RPC is an instrument.

So I'm gonna be short with it. The problem isn't in the "hugboxes" or the "close admin acting" This is not a wild-west, and as I said, some people here are looking for fun, and to set rp, not to be sniped or passively agressively shot. Not throwing names, but I believe that, as Natalie said, the agressiveness was always here, but some events behind the curtains, as well as the expansion coming, coupled with the recent discussions going to the gutter gave a spike we're all noticing, and flailing around, and repeatly mentioning this. We got it, but this is personal issue of some users, which doesn't go into Admin's role, they're not psychiatrists, and we can't really say names because it's against the rules and what's not.


In short, talking about this constantly won't solve the issue. The persons who does this a lot need to be adressed.


I don't know though, I'm not a psychologist.

So how do you think these people should be identified and addressed? I tend to agree, that there can be the tendency to use controversial topics as venues to push personal agendas, or a way to get attention.

However I'm not sure how this can be discouraged. I don't think the current rules help this situation (I think they promote it in some respects). How do we encourage people in controversial threads to argue in good faith, and not just try and score e-points?

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - Desu Nee - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 06:00 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(05-15-2015, 02:47 PM)Desu Nee Wrote:
Quote: Wrote:I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

I've said that once before, but I'm really not a person of writing long, exhaustive walls of text because I'm a really strong believer that a short, well intentioned text is better than a massive venting wall, which is more to vent the writers frustration that truly putting their point on an objective view. I post images, or "memes" a lot not because I want to derail, or to "hugbox", but because I feel people here come to have fun, enjoy themselves, set RP dates and forum rps, discuss lore and what's not. RPC is an instrument.

So I'm gonna be short with it. The problem isn't in the "hugboxes" or the "close admin acting" This is not a wild-west, and as I said, some people here are looking for fun, and to set rp, not to be sniped or passively agressively shot. Not throwing names, but I believe that, as Natalie said, the agressiveness was always here, but some events behind the curtains, as well as the expansion coming, coupled with the recent discussions going to the gutter gave a spike we're all noticing, and flailing around, and repeatly mentioning this. We got it, but this is personal issue of some users, which doesn't go into Admin's role, they're not psychiatrists, and we can't really say names because it's against the rules and what's not.


In short, talking about this constantly won't solve the issue. The persons who does this a lot need to be adressed.


I don't know though, I'm not a psychologist.

So how do you think these people should be identified and addressed? I tend to agree, that there can be the tendency to use controversial topics as venues to push personal agendas, or a way to get attention.

However I'm not sure how this can be discouraged. I don't think the current rules help this situation (I think they promote it in some respects). How do we encourage people in controversial threads to argue in good faith, and not just try and score e-points?
I feel we already know some people, and obviously these people know themselves. Some people just have a short fuse, or passionate on the speech, or whatever excuse. Ultimately, we can't really control what people will do, unless there's an according punishment because we aren't the ones typing on their keyboard.

What I do believe, is that constantly making threads about it won't help.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 03:23 PM)Hyrist Wrote: So Topic on my mind.


Is anyone else as hesitant as I am to post? Most often I browse these forums and often find myself wanting to share things but for some reasons I'm like. "Well, if I share this, what's the encouragement to get them to RP with me? They'll already know." Or "Am I really ok with interjecting this opinion into an ongoing conversation? I don't want to seem rude." 

I'm always on the hint of doing something or posting something, then I just find myself taking a step back and go. "Nah." It's never anyone in particular, just an overall shyness. Heck, I've got a huge idea for RP connections but I stopped and pestered poor Freelancewizard privately to get his opinion privately before even trying to post it. 

So, does anyone else get this sort of 'cold feet' just with the RPC?

I think this is an aftereffect of the general mood people are speaking of.

I personally think you should get yourself involved in any discussion in which you think you might have something useful to say, or you just want your opinion to be known.

As for the RP bit, that's a thing I struggle with myself. Its why I currently don't really have a wiki, because I feel like it kills some of the mystery when I RP with people. Its better that they are curious as a player and as a character.

Of course you have to give them something... or they won't be interested enough to start asking questions. I have a few idea for threads helping people drop mysterious details so that other people can meet as such. I think there was a plot hooks thread in the past as well.

RE: The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules) - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 01:31 PM)Melodia Wrote: Lots of stuff.


That's my two cents. I enjoy the community and the site.

If I might ask, you say that in the past you have been part of the 'negativity'. Why do you think you took part in such things? Also what caused you to make a conscious decision to stop doing it?