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Ishgard, Highlanders, and Knights, oh my! - 0range - 12-15-2015
Fair warning, the first few paragraphs are purely to provide a bit of background, and you're free to skip or skim them. Secondly, I'm not a major lore buff or stickler, but I like to write characters who can function without being 'that one in a million exception to the rule'.
This post can be summed up in a question: Can a highlander be Ishgardian, and even a part of the upper-class?
It's a simple and not-so-simple question, but not a question I'd describe as terribly complicated, either. I've been giddy to go to Ishgard forever. From the beginning of ARR (although I did play briefly during 1.0) I've wanted to set foot in Ishgard and I've always considered playing my character as being Ishgardian. Various details held me back from settling on whether or not I should, back in the early stages of ARR, however: There wasn't a lot of information about Ishgard at the time, I wasn't sure how far their isolation went and how plausible it was to play an Ishgardian so far from home, and they seemed to be almost entirely elezen.Â
Now, I could just be simple and play an elezen. In fact, I'd do so in a heartbeat. But there's something off about their aesthetic, to me, and I can't get over little details, like their run animation. They don't look quite right, or like their concept art depicts them, or that look simply didn't transfer itself well into the game - any number of reasons, given that you're staring at your character for so long (running, especially!), I knew the little nagging issues would grate on me.Â
A similar problem for playing a midlander. It's a female character, so the aesthetic is worth mentioning. While both male and female highlanders are fairly tall, appear physically capable, carry themselves well, etc. female midlanders are extremely dainty and princess-like, which is largely at odds with my vision of the character.Â
Well now there's a good deal more information on Ishgard, and we can even go and visit.  I've seen midlanders in Ishgard, though it seems to me they're all part of the lower class? I don't think I've seen any highlanders, however. My character is a knight. This is a large part of my interest in Ishgard. It's finally a city estate that really appeals to me on a cultural, societal, and visual level. I adore heavily medieval-themed settings, and while I'm not religious myself, I think religion (especially such as Ishgard's flawed, false church) is really neat in fiction.
I've chatted with a friend of mine about this stuff, but I'd love some thoughts and input. One concern that comes to mind is that, much like the real world, it seems to me knights are from the nobility. That complicates matters further, I should think (though I'm in no way opposed to roleplaying the character as nobility, in fact I almost count on it - a minor noble, perhaps, but noble nonetheless. Well-read, good upbringing, etc.). How does a highlander from Ishgard stand up? How does one being a knight work out, furthermore? Would a midlander work instead, or do you think all roads but elezen are problematic? Even should a midlander work, do you think it would be bad form to play the character as a midlander ICly while using a highlander visually?Â
I'd really appreciate advice, suggestions, or, if you don't see an issue, a thumbs up! All-in-all I'm more concerned as to whether people will write off my character at a glance, or whether they're likely to be fine with it.
RE: Ishgard, Highlanders, and Knights, oh my! - Oli! - 12-15-2015
Knights, and in particular Dragoons, seem to be taken from all walks of life; Ishgardian officials look for lots of angry children from the Brume with nothing to lose to turn into Dragoons.
As for class structure, Hyur only seem to reach the Merchant Class, from what we can see. It's possible as a hyur to be very wealthy, but if you have any political power, you're an Elezen.
RE: Ishgard, Highlanders, and Knights, oh my! - Unnamed Mercenary - 12-15-2015
This should be interesting to follow! I'm a bad loremonger and often don't have the links to sources to back up my claims, but I can search for them if needed. (Or yield to the better loremongerS).
Quote: How does a highlander from Ishgard stand up?
If you're talking about born and raised in Ishgard, by Highlander parents, possibly problematic. Not impossible, but likely rare. Most Highlanders are typically Ala Mhigan, from Gyr Abania, or have grown up outside of Ishgard. It should be noted that Ishgard is believed to be probably around 60%-ish Elezen, with Midlanders being the next largest group. Due to the Autumn War, where Ala Mhigo attempted to take over Eorzea, there would likely be some people who'd make generalizations about your Highlander regardless of heritage or parents. Now, you could actually use that to your advantage. Perhaps your Highlander's parents were taken as prisoners after the war. Maybe one snuck into Ishgard before their gates closed to foreigners (which is somewhere between after Autumn War, and prior to the Calimity). ...maybe Ishgard -did- have a handful of Highlander nobles. Personally, I think you've got some workroom. (Maybe they just think the family is some extra-large Midlanders).
Quote:How does one being a knight work out, furthermore?
Religious army of sorts. I'm not sure how better to put it. Knights are likely there to protect the rest of the city from the Dragonsong War. Ranks are.....too complicated for me. ._.
Quote:Would a midlander work instead, or do you think all roads but elezen are problematic? Even should a midlander work, do you think it would be bad form to play the character as a midlander ICly while using a highlander visually?
You don't need to be an Elezen, although being one would raise far fewer questions. We know Ishgard has at least Midlanders, and it's likely they've got/had Lalafell, Roegadyn and Miqo'te at some point. (That's been a debated topic here. Search for the elusive Miqo'te Dragoon). As far as RP form goes, people do that occasionally and I've never seen anyone through a fit for using one clan's model for the other, unless they keep RPing out very apparent differences. (ex: Seeker of the Sun Miqo'te eyes on a Keeper of the Moon. Dunesfol Lalafell eyelids on a Plainsfolk. Duskwight hearing and vison on Wildwood, etc)
RE: Ishgard, Highlanders, and Knights, oh my! - Sounsyy - 12-15-2015
(12-15-2015, 07:50 PM)0range Wrote: This post can be summed up in a question: Can a highlander be Ishgardian, and even a part of the upper-class?
I've seen midlanders in Ishgard, though it seems to me they're all part of the lower class? I don't think I've seen any highlanders, however. My character is a knight. This is a large part of my interest in Ishgard.
One concern that comes to mind is that, much like the real world, it seems to me knights are from the nobility. That complicates matters further, I should think (though I'm in no way opposed to roleplaying the character as nobility, in fact I almost count on it - a minor noble, perhaps, but noble nonetheless. Well-read, good upbringing, etc.). How does a highlander from Ishgard stand up? How does one being a knight work out, furthermore?
The short answer: Yes! Absolutely! You can be a Highlander Knight hailing from Ishgard!
Longer answer: While Highlanders do not make up a majority race within Ishgardian society due to close to 500 years of race wars between Elezen and invading Highlanders near Ishgard's founding, there are some present within the city-state. I do not know of any born Ishgardian Highlanders represented in game, however, as Ishgard shut the Gates of Judgement to all outsiders about 20 years ago, around the same time that Ala Mhigo fell and Gyr Abania, homeland of the Highlander tribes, fell under Garlean rule.
The Goodwill Traders Wrote:During the fall of Ala Mhigo, hundreds of refugees were forced to flee their homes, taking only what they could carry and leaving the rest of their possessions behind. Many of those who survived the exodus found refuge in the hamlets of Coerthas and Thanalan, however, were soon faced with poverty, often lacking the coin to buy clothes enough to protect them from the elements. Black Rabbit Traders has heard their cries for help, and has devised a plan to help the Ala Mhigans while ridding the Twelveswood of troublesome poachers in the process. The outfit is hiring adventurers to seek out Humblehearth poachers and slay the criminals, then bring their jerkins back to the Black Rabbit so they can fix them up and sell them to the refugees at a price they can afford.
Ishgardian Knights are actually not always nobility. Nobility by birth is tied almost directly to lineage, but any Ishgardian may advance their social status by performing noble feats, such as slaying a dragon. So while it'd be highly unlikely to find a Highlander lesser-noble House, it's within the realm of possibility for a Highlander to become a knight under a noble house, slay a dragon and claim nobility for himself. Or, you can just have a Highlander Knight employed by one of the Four High Houses, it's quite common.
House Dzemael, for example, had an entire family of Roegadyn who served under their banner. You can find Dyrstweitz retired in Costa del Sol now, but before the Calamity he was a knight under Dzemael's banner, and his father was the Count's chef. House Fortemps especially is infamous for their employment of foreign knights, artisans, and merchants. That is another avenue.
Below are some relevant lore blurbs you might find helpful, as well as links to other Ishgardian discussions and lore. Hope this helps! ^^
House Fortemps Steward Wrote:As for those sworn to House Fortemps... In addition to the knights, squires, and infantry, more than a hundred craftsmen, retainers, and other servants possessed of notable skill are pledged to our service. Given our strong position, one might expect us to have no truck with foreign merchants and sellswords. However, nothing could be further from the truth. I should think that my lord the count was quite clear on this point, but it was our hope that you and your allies would, by your deeds, help us to convince the other High Houses of the wisdom of opening the Gates of Judgement to all - among other things.
Dyrstweitz Wrote:A hearty hail to you, adventurer. I am Dyrstweitz, son of Dyrstweitz. I serve House Dzemael, as did my father and his father before him. Like them, I have sworn a solemn oath to protect the count's lands and holdings from any and all that would do them harm. Originally designed to provide protection against air and land attacks from the Wyrmking's horde, construction on the Darkhold began several generations ago when Count Dzemael, fifty-third of his line and lord of House Dzemael - greatest of the four high houses of Ishgard - discovered a hidden network of caves while foxing near the Nail.
You might also be interested in Haimirich, Captain of Oschon's Raiders who is a Highlander under the employ of House Fortemps.
House Fortemps Knight Wrote:Indeed, the count has but recently seen fit to hire foreign sellswords for their experience and knowledge of other lands. You are to work with Oschon's Raiders, one such company under our banner. Their captain, Haimirich, can be found between jobs at the Forgotten Knight. No doubt he is enjoying the excellent ale. Whatever his profession, I do think Haimirich a man of honor. I have even joined him for a cup at the Forgotten Knight.
-Four High House Lore Compilation
-List of Known Lesser Noble Houses
-Ishgardian High House Relations and Political Assassination Lore
-Azure Dragoon & Order of the Knights Dragoon Lore
-The Heavensward and Temple Knight Lore
-Ishgardian Scholasticate, Conjury, and Thaumaturgy Lore
-Dusk, Stone, Steel, Dawn Vigil Lore
-How Has Ishgard Fed Itself?
-Halonic Funeral Lore
-Eorzean Religion Lore Masterpost (Bit in there about Ishgard and the Enchiridion)
-Eorzean Racial Lore Masterpost (Race War History section you may find interesting)
-Complete Sightseeing Lore Compilation (Ishgardian ones start at #68)
Lemme know if you have more questions! I threw in some extra Ishgard lore because, well, I already had this compilation at the ready.
RE: Ishgard, Highlanders, and Knights, oh my! - Aya - 12-15-2015
Aya is an Ala Mhigan born Highlander Ishgardian (albeit represented in game with a midlander model
).Her family escaped Gyr Abania as the Garlean invasion was preparing, and slipped in ahead of the gates closing as refugees (with relatives in the city taking them in, since I doubt Ishgard took in refugees out of the kindness of its collective heart).
RE: Ishgard, Highlanders, and Knights, oh my! - 0range - 12-15-2015
Edit: Finally had a chance to read through the replies, and I think I've got a fairly reasonable idea of how to roll with this now. Further suggestions still very much welcome, though. Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Just about to go out to dinner (lucky me!) so I haven't had a chance to read through these replies fully yet. I really appreciate the responses so far, though, and what I've gleaned from the bits I have read look very informative and helpful! So thank you for that.
Definitely some things that I considered myself, but failed to detail in my original post, so I'm glad to see them mentioned (the Autumn War, for example).
A quick addition before I go, for your consideration: my character is in her mid-late twenties and by no means would I describe her as an elite, experienced, or masterful knight. Capable, trained, and disciplined, certainly, to be a good ways more skilled in combat than, say, any shmuck with a pointy stick or a standard soldier. I think it's important to note that, because I for one am skeptical therefore as to whether such a person (still relatively young, though by no means green) would have had either the time or ability to prove herself in the eyes of others enough to ascend the social ladder.
Not impossible, but maybe think of it as more food for thought? You're welcome to disagree with my assumption on this front.
I don't go for the extremely talented fighter or all-around badass angle with my characters, I find it less interesting for myself to write about. In a nutshell, the character's still a bit fresh. Now, because I hate the characters that I roleplay and take great pleasure in their dismay, I was considering the possibility of her struggling to live up to her name. A house name, a family name, etc. Anything of that sort. Ideally, this is a role she's been born into, rather than one she chose for herself.
Ultimately, I really just wish elezen looked and moved slightly differently.Â
