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+--- Thread: Arcanist Roleplay (/showthread.php?tid=14784)
Arcanist Roleplay - Oats McGoats - 12-31-2015
Hi everyone! Your friendly neighborhood Yazi here with questions about Arcanists! My partner is really confused about how Arcanists operate. I was able to answer most of her questions, but the finer points I am apparently super rough on...
1) How does Arcanist magic work? I know that they use mathematical equations related to the arrangement of different symbols and whatnot to cast spells (like badass geometry?
), but do they have to carve the symbols onto something? Do they have to touch a diagram with their palm? Do they have to say something related to the diagram? Or do they just have to… I dunno, look at the diagram?2) What purpose does the grimoire actually serve? Is it just a handicap, so they can have a visual of the symbols to help them? I.e., can they cast without the grimoire, and it’s just more difficult?
3) Speaking of carving symbols into things, I read to summon carbuncle they have to carve the summoning symbols into a crystal. Is this necessary? Are the crystals one-time use? Why is this the process? I.e., is the necessary aether stored in the crystals and used up once cast?
4) Do arcanists use solely their own aether, or do they also draw from other things? If other things, what other things? Do they have to be living? Do they have to be crystals?
5) What purpose do carbuncle serve? Are they mostly for extra firepower? Does it damage the arcanist when their carbuncle is hurt or destroyed? Is it the same carbuncle each summon?
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NEW QUESTIONS!
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6) If the crystal used for a specific carbuncle shatters, would that mean the "death" of the carbuncle? Essentially the carbuncle could not longer be summoned, and the Arcanist must now find a new crystal to create a new carbuncle?
7) Does a carbuncle have to look like a carbuncle? In other words, could the Arcanist create the carbuncle with another appearance? Say... a moogle?
(This is mostly asked from curiosity, not the desire to have a moogle carbuncle)
8) So are crystals needed to create your egi as well, using the tainted mist that enters the Summoner's body?
9) What is the significant difference between an Arcanist and a Summoner? Obviously the Summoner has the soulstone, but why can a Summoner create an egi and not an Arcanist? Does the soulstone give the caster's body the tolerance needed to absorb the primal mist and use that to create the egi?
Thanks in advance for any insight!
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Smagon - 01-01-2016
To piggyback off of this thread, I would like to ask if arcanists are only capable of summoning a carbuncle or if they can summon whatever they can design. It is my understanding that a carbuncle is just an arcane construct. I assume this means that they could just make a different construct in whatever shape they wanted.
The Limsan arcanists use a carbuncle because it is useful for their job as a customs agent. Maybe an arcanist who does not work as a customs agent can use something better suited for their tasks.
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Shoshopu - 01-01-2016
There have honestly been a lot of arcanima threads lately and I'm sure someone will link them/quote from them soon but right now I'm just gonna focus on these specific questions. Some of this is confirmed ingame but we don't know many specifics of arcanima at all and a lot of it is theoretical, headcanons, educated guesses, etc.
1) How does Arcanist magic work? I know that they use mathematical equations related to the arrangement of different symbols and whatnot to cast spells (like badass geometry?
), but do they have to carve the symbols onto something? Do they have to touch a diagram with their palm? Do they have to say something related to the diagram? Or do they just have to… I dunno, look at the diagram?Arcanima is shaping aether through geometry into spells. They cast them using their grimoires as a focus, and the grimoires contain geometries and glyphs written with special aether-conducting ink.
2) What purpose does the grimoire actually serve? Is it just a handicap, so they can have a visual of the symbols to help them? I.e., can they cast without the grimoire, and it’s just more difficult?
See above. It's a focus. I think it could be possible for an arcanist to shape magic without one if they knew the diagrams very well and could manipulate aether precisely with just the hands, but a lot of people think of the glyphs in the grimoires as circuits for the aether to travel through if that helps you imagine it.
3) Speaking of carving symbols into things, I read to summon carbuncle they have to carve the summoning symbols into a crystal. Is this necessary? Are the crystals one-time use? Why is this the process? I.e., is the necessary aether stored in the crystals and used up once cast?
The game never goes into this afaik. My headcanon is that yes, you need one, but you don't have to carve stuff INTO the crystal (the "carbuncle's ruby"), but it's the cut and size of the gem itself that shapes the carbuncle you summon with it. They don't get consumed. Channeling aether through the crystal is like filtering light through a prism or something. Aether goes in, carbuncle comes out. It is the process because it's Final Fantasy.
4) Do arcanists use solely their own aether, or do they also draw from other things? If other things, what other things? Do they have to be living? Do they have to be crystals?
They use their own aether and they channel it through the diagrams. I think they could use crystals if they wanted to, though. You can be creative with this.
5) What purpose do carbuncle serve? Are they mostly for extra firepower? Does it damage the arcanist when their carbuncle is hurt or destroyed? Is it the same carbuncle each summon?
Mealvaan's Gate, the Arcanist's Guild, is the also the customs office of Limsa Lominsa. Carbuncles, I imagine, are used like drug dogs and the like. You could get creative with this since they seem to have some sentience to them, like a dog or something. The carbuncle being hurt doesn't hurt the user, it's a different entity. I like to think each crystal's carbuncle is unique and could be the same one with each summoning, especially since downstairs int he Arcanist's Guild they appear to be training carbuncles. if your carbuncle couldn't retain memories this would be useless, unless they're just practicing controlling carbuncles and not actually training the carbuncles.
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Sounsyy - 01-01-2016
(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 1) How does Arcanist magic work? I know that they use mathematical equations related to the arrangement of different symbols and whatnot to cast spells (like badass geometry?
Thubyrgeim Wrote:The roots of arcanima can be traced back to the esoteric calculations practiced by the people of the south sea isles. It was their efforts to express the nature of aether in mathematical terms that gave rise to the exacting science that we practice today. These definitive formalas are represented by "arcane geometries"--patterns that allow arcanists to manipulate aetheric energy and produce specific effects. The ability to shape this energy also allow practitioners to manifest arcane entities known collectively as "Carbuncle." This is perhaps the most defining power attributed to the art of arcanima.
Lodestone Wrote:Adepts of the art of arcanum derive their might from symbols of power born of geometric techniques hailing from across the southern seas. Held within occult grimoires, these symbols lend shape to the arcanist's aether, thereby allowing him to produce myriad powerful spells. Using the selfsame symbols to unlock the latent power contained within gemstones, arcanists are also able to summon forth the familiar known as Carbuncle to carry out their bidding.
Anonymous Arcanist Wrote:For an arcanist to weave his spells, he must conjure in his mind the image of distinct mystical diagrams known as arcane geometries. These geometries are inscribed upon the pages of a grimoire, such as the one you constructed at my request. The most important aspect of any grimoire is the quality of the ink used to illustrate its pages. Geometries drawn with ink that is especially conductive to the flow of aether allow the arcanist to more effectively channel his magical strength.
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(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 2) What purpose does the grimoire actually serve? Is it just a handicap, so they can have a visual of the symbols to help them? I.e., can they cast without the grimoire, and it’s just more difficult?
Theoretically, an Arcanist could cast without the grimoire, but their spell would be incredibly weak. The grimoire acts as both a focus and an amplifier for their magic. The glyphs drawn in the book lend shape to the spell, but its the ink in which they are drawn that channels the aether more effectively. Certain metals (gold, silver, electrum) are prized for their aether-conductive qualities. The better quality the ink, the easier aether is channeled through the grimoire. Without the book the Arcanist can neither visualize the desired symbol nor have a focus to channel his/her magic through, effectively crippling their spell potency.
Anonymous Arcanist Wrote:For an arcanist to weave his spells, he must conjure in his mind the image of distinct mystical diagrams known as arcane geometries. These geometries are inscribed upon the pages of a grimoire, such as the one you constructed at my request. The most important aspect of any grimoire is the quality of the ink used to illustrate its pages. Geometries drawn with ink that is especially conductive to the flow of aether allow the arcanist to more effectively channel his magical strength.
Serendipity Wrote:Silver was historically prized for its beauty. Ancient peoples even believed it to possess magical properties. Although they did not completely understand the natural process involved, they were in fact correct. It's difficult to explain to someone without an extensive background in the relevant fields, but let's just say that silver is really, really good at channeling aether.
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(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 3) Speaking of carving symbols into things, I read to summon carbuncle they have to carve the summoning symbols into a crystal. Is this necessary? Are the crystals one-time use? Why is this the process? I.e., is the necessary aether stored in the crystals and used up once cast?
Lodestone Wrote:Using the selfsame symbols to unlock the latent power contained within gemstones, arcanists are also able to summon forth the familiar known as Carbuncle to carry out their bidding.
The gemstones and crystals used to form an Arcanist's familiar are multi-use, assuming the crystal doesn't break? Basically, every gemstone has its own supposed magical properties. More lore on this is discussed in the Goldsmithing questline. Arcanists, in particular, are able to tap into the latent aether trapped within these gemstones and mold it into a familiar, a being composed of aether in the taxonomy of a Lesser Elemental. It has a conscious of its own and must be trained to adapt to the will and bent of its master.
Peridot Carbuncle Wrote:The pain of being betrayed by her first summoned pet still fresh in her heart, Tataru vowed she would never again fall victim to the whims of a fickle familiar and commissioned the Goldsmiths' Guild to craft her an ever-loyal companion.
According to K'lyhia of the Arcanist questline, a unique geometry is still needed, in addition to the gemstone, to summon your Carbuncle familiar.
K'lyhia Wrote:The arcane entity given form by the topaz geometry excels in defensive techniques.
The ability to summon the Carbuncle familiar seems to be a trait originating from the magick's origin, Summoning, which used the aether of defeated primals to create a proto-summon, and later scholars of Nym, who were able to create faeries to do their bidding and bind them to soulstones.
Las Vegas Lore Panel Wrote:Q: To follow up on a question from the stream earlier- the taxonomy that fairies fall into. Is there an origin to how they become fairies of Scholars. Were they fairies and then bound to scholars? or did the scholars create them?
MCKF: Yes, the second one. Fairies again, while they fall under the taxonomy of elementals, they are actually beings that were created. They did not exist before. The Scholar would take the energies and elements from around them and would basically create these beings that were made of the elements.
Gamerescape E3 Interview Wrote:Q: At Fan Fest, we had some people very interested in the nature of faeries and we got a lot of information about that. I thought we might talk about Egi this time. We know the story is that you’re tainted by the aetherial mist that comes about in a primal’s defeat. Can you be more specific about how that works and how that comes back out in the entity you summon?
MCKF: Basically, every being is made up of aether. It’s your own aether, and that is you. By taking your aether and splitting it, you create an egi, but you still have yourself. The thing is, you’re maintaining both of these at the same time, which is why summoners can only do this with one egi at a time. If you split yourself too much, your grip on yourself is gone and you fade back into the Lifestream. That’s not to say there aren’t certain beings in the world that have a larger pool of aether; some beings can split into multiple egi, while maintaining that balance, before they die. As for how to create an egi, as you said before, you get that mist – that taint – by defeating it; it goes into you. You are creating an image of what that primal was, so without ever having seen it, you cannot create it. By attuning with their aetherial remnant, you know that primal and can attune an egi in that image. There are no new egis in 3.0, and the reason why will be explained in a way that ties back to this information, as well.
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(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 4) Do arcanists use solely their own aether, or do they also draw from other things? If other things, what other things? Do they have to be living? Do they have to be crystals?
Most of an Arcanist's spellcasting draws from their own lifeforce, similar to Thaumaturgy, but they are also able to draw from their immediate environment or others. (Aetherflow & Energy Drain respectively.) But for the majority of their spells, the arcanist channels their own aether through their grimoire - the ease of which depends on the ink and quality of the book - and shape the magic using the glyphs on the page. Different glyphs and symbols, different lines and shapes correlate to different spells.
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(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 5) What purpose do carbuncle serve? Are they mostly for extra firepower? Does it damage the arcanist when their carbuncle is hurt or destroyed? Is it the same carbuncle each summon?
The familiars are there to protect the arcanist, essentially, is their primary function. Though many seem to have a mind of their own. It does not seem to harm the arcanist when their familiar is harmed or destroyed, both in lore and game mechanics. The familiar is created into being using aether, so the casters connection with the familiar is spent upfront, and the two are not bound while summoned. Whether or not every familiar summoned is the same or not is unknown, however, considering the caster bleeds their own aether into the same gemstone to summon their familiar, I would theorize that the familiar is the same so long as it is the same gemstone. With enough soul attunement and aether poured into the peridot, topaz, emerald, or whatever gemstone, it should in theory begin remembering and recognizing the aether similar to a soulstone, that over time, develops memories and for lack of a better word a soul. This soul then resonates with people who stir the stone's memories or aether.
Hope this helps answer your questions! ^^ I'll link a couple other related threads that you might find helpful on this subject below:
-Arcanist Lore
-Mechanics of Spell Casting
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Oats McGoats - 01-01-2016
Thank you both so much! This is great info! I will edit if I have anymore questions. :3
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Shoshopu - 01-01-2016
(01-01-2016, 12:48 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: According to K'lyhia of the Arcanist questline, a unique geometry is still needed, in addition to the gemstone, to summon your Carbuncle familiar.
K'lyhia Wrote:The arcane entity given form by the topaz geometry excels in defensive techniques.
Couldn't "the topaz geometry" just mean "the geometry of the topaz"? As in, geometric aspects of the gem itself? Like, say, a gem cut with certain facets and angles would make this specific kind of carbuncle? I never paid much attention to the cutscenes after the first time but it's not like they actually point to a grimoire page and go "this, right there, use that" is it?
You're probably right but I'm very much attached to the idea that the geometric shapes of the crystals Matters and that would be downplayed by the requirement of a grimoire or additional glyph.
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Oats McGoats - 01-01-2016
New questions added!
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Sounsyy - 01-01-2016
(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 6) If the crystal used for a specific carbuncle shatters, would that mean the "death" of the carbuncle? Essentially the carbuncle could not longer be summoned, and the Arcanist must now find a new crystal to create a new carbuncle?
I don't think its ever been shown to happen in game yet, nor has it been talked about, but that would be the theory, yes. If a crystal cracks or shatters, it can no longer contain aether and the crystal becomes unaspected or dies. So yes, they'd likely need a new gemstone to summon a new carbuncle.
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(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 7) Does a carbuncle have to look like a carbuncle? In other words, could the Arcanist create the carbuncle with another appearance? Say... a moogle?
All of the arcanist familiars we see in game appear the same, yet vary only in color based upon their gemstone - topaz, emerald, peridot, heliodor, garnet, etc. Just like all elementals and faeries look similar to one another. Most sprites and homunculi seem to vary depending upon their elemental affiliation, however, these particular lesser elementals are entirely elemental based so that may cause the slight discrepancy.
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(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 8) So are crystals needed to create your egi as well, using the tainted mist that enters the Summoner's body?
Crystals are not required for summoning that we know of. What is required is the wash of aether from a defeated primal. Then each summoner must undergo a rite to bind the egi to their will.
Y'mhitra Wrote:According to the records we recovered, the summoners of old would perform these rites in a land in which the naturally dominant element matched the aspect of the avatar they wished to call forth. Only in such a place might one sufficiently shift one's aetheric balance in the desired direction.
Now you must focus. Visualize the aether flowing through you, a vibrant current of energy transforming into living fire. Hold this image in your mind, and the raging heat of your life force shall spawn an egi wreathed in flames! Be aware, however, that this nascent entity will appear before you unbound and hostile. It is your charge to overpower the avatar, and establish yourself as its master.
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(12-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Yazi Wrote: 9) What is the significant difference between an Arcanist and a Summoner? Obviously the Summoner has the soulstone, but why can a Summoner create an egi and not an Arcanist? Does the soulstone give the caster's body the tolerance needed to absorb the primal mist and use that to create the egi?
For starters, "egi" is an Allagan word and summoning is an Allagan* art.
Y'mhitra Wrote:In the ancient tongue of the Allagan Empire, it would be known as “Ifrit-Egi,†where “egi†translates approximately to “pure†or “the essence of.†In short, you have tamed a willful manifestation of Ifrit's raging fires.
*Note:
In any case, the summoning soulstone seems to have little to connection to the actual practice. Instead, it performs only the basic function of the soulstone, which is that of a crystal that contains the memories of former summoners - hence why the Ascians want it. They can likely draw upon the memories to "remember" long forgotten primals to summon.
Further evidence that soulstones have little to do with tolerance is that Y'mhitra does not gift the PC with a soulstone until just before the Austerities of Flame ritual, well after the PC has already faced the relevant primal and became washed in their aether. She quickly mentions it merely contains memories of past summoners and that such memories may help guide when fighting/binding the egi. So, theoretically, one should not require a soulstone to summon, it just might be helpful to have one.
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(01-01-2016, 01:04 PM)Shoshopu Wrote:(01-01-2016, 12:48 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: According to K'lyhia of the Arcanist questline, a unique geometry is still needed, in addition to the gemstone, to summon your Carbuncle familiar.
K'lyhia Wrote:The arcane entity given form by the topaz geometry excels in defensive techniques.
Couldn't "the topaz geometry" just mean "the geometry of the topaz"? As in, geometric aspects of the gem itself? Like, say, a gem cut with certain facets and angles would make this specific kind of carbuncle? I never paid much attention to the cutscenes after the first time but it's not like they actually point to a grimoire page and go "this, right there, use that" is it?
You're probably right but I'm very much attached to the idea that the geometric shapes of the crystals Matters and that would be downplayed by the requirement of a grimoire or additional glyph.
I like the headcanon, personally. But the text would probably say "topaz's geometry" instead of "the topaz geometry" where geometry is most often used in the questline to discuss arcane spells. Also that we don't see variations in the carbuncle's cut of jewel, all seen in game have the same shaped gem on their forehead, just of varying colors based on the specific gem. Y'mhitra describes the topaz carbuncles as a whole by saying they excel in defensive techniques, and does not further categorize varieties of topaz carbuncles that have varying traits. Which, unfortunately, all seems to point to a topaz gemstone = a defensive topaz carbuncle.
However, I was having a conversation about why in all of the arcanist's casting animations the only spells that are written into the book are the summoning spells for familiars. My speculative thoughts/headcanon is that traits like Personality, Aspect, Sentience must be added to the base summoning algorithm. For instance, the geometry to summon Eos and Selene may be exactly the same, but an addendum must be written in to the book to further describe the traits of the chosen familiar. Something similar could also be the case for the carbuncles. While the gemstone dictates its aspect and abilities, perhaps personality/self-awareness must be written in?
EDIT:
Camate Wrote:Many grimoires can be wielded by arcanists, scholars, or summoners. However, each grimoire is tailored to a single profession, which can be determined by examining its contents.-Source
Arcanist grimoires contain geometric symbols that shape and direct the power of arcanima; summoner grimoires contain incantations used to call forth and command primal egi; scholar grimoires contain a wealth of tactics and stratagems which can be applied during battle.
Each grimoire will display one of these three patterns when opened. However, we’ve heard your requests for more variety, and will relay them to the art team. Thanks for the feedback!
Hope this helps! ^^
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Jana - 01-02-2016
It's been my headcanon that the, for example, topaz's "geometry" leading to a defensive carbuncle is the crystalline structure itself, meaning the cut of the gem wouldn't matter in forming the carbuncle, only that there's a large enough gem to draw it out with aether.
I also RP as an ACN/SMN but I think Sounsyy already covered the important bits!
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Gallien Vyese - 01-03-2016
Very random question here, If some other kind of focus could be used (crystal or some other medium). Would it theoretically be possible to replace the grimoire with tattoos made of the same aether conductive ink?
RE: Arcanist Roleplay - Momo - 01-03-2016
Good question!
This subject has been discussed at some length before, which lead Nero to post some interesting hypotheses on why it wouldn't be the best idea for you to tattoo arcane geometries onto your body unless for very simple spells. Â Some of the ideas listed were:
~SMN/SCH/ACN Books are known to use both powerful aether conducting inks as well as high quality pages to properly channel aether for spells. Â These aether conducting inks would most likely be poisonous to the body if used in any large amount on the skin, and without the pages themselves, the skin may be a questionable method to conduct with, thereby being somewhat weaker.
~Geometries are visual guides, and therefor would limit the user to placing them on the body in such a way as to be able to see them, so having one on your back or legs, or even your neck, would be a hard sell as to being usable for your spell, as you can't see it, and wouldn't be able to properly channel the aether to your desired outcome.
The general consensus on this is that it is possible to do this, but as said above, would probably need a fair amount of aether to produce anything, and would be more of an emergency rather than something of steady value to these specific jobs.
I am certain there are more opinions on this, perhaps the search for an aether conducting material that could be used on the skin which wouldn't be considered a poison to the body would be something to look into? Â Good luck!