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+--- Thread: Art Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=1554)
Re: Art Discussion - Mtoto Wamoto - 01-06-2013
I wasn't going to comment earlier due to the fact that I had already said my piece. However, because I stated several times that the things I had posted were works in progress (translate to subject to change if that better suits your tastes) I find it insulting that you go on to call what I'm doing plagiarism. YES, I did use another artists work as influence and inspiration(Akihiko Yoshida's, the artist of FFXIV, to be exact). YES I did use the poses in the respected art works as a base because I wanted to do FANART for my friends. I'm drawing from the pieces I'm looking at, I'm not drawing on. If anyone were to have asked, "Hey Mtoto, these character poses and the art style look familiar. Why so?" I would have responded with the simple answer that the art I used for reference came from an artist I respect and admire and that his art style is one I wish to be able to grow to be like.
I understand that plagiarism is wrong. Stealing is wrong. Blatantly copying someone else's work is wrong. However, in my finished pieces, there are major deviations from anything posted on here. I have yet to post any real final work here or anywhere else.
I don't feel what I'm doing is plagiarism because
a.) I'm not doing this and claiming I came up with the source material.
b.) artists in the past have done this same process, yet does that discredit them? - see:
![[Image: snowwhite.jpg]](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/12/snowwhite.jpg)
![[Image: disneyreuse08.jpg]](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/12/disneyreuse08.jpg)
c.) I'm doing this as FAN SERVICE to my friends. It's not meant to be used for commercial use or use to put into a portfolio or anything of that nature.
And just to add on to what I was saying earlier about my earlier picture being a work in progress, here is a more finalized (READ STILL WORK TO BE DONE) line art of Zolku.
![[Image: WB7q6.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/WB7q6.jpg)
And again, here is the reference I used -
[img=center]http://matteomazzali.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/1974art_archer.jpg?w=600&h=770[/img]
I have nothing else to say on the matter aside from the fact that I won't be posting anymore work in progress pieces on here any longer.
Also, get off your high horse. Your pompous aura of arrogance is belittling and your quick assumptions based off of things that have yet to be finished shows that you are quick to judge a person before even speaking to them in a civil manner. Next time you have a problem with how I draw, take it up with me via PM. No need to drag the rest of the community underfoot.
Re: Art Discussion - Folken - 01-06-2013
Here's some more.
Mtoto Wamoto Wrote:[img=center]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/004/8/c/zesiro_ghalib_by_aristotleami-d5q6303.png[/img]
![[Image: mjC7e.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/mjC7e.jpg)
Re: Art Discussion - Kylin - 01-06-2013
[size=xx-smal]I hate baby-sitting threads when I need to be working on the site redesign
[/size]I'm not an artist. I don't pretend to know a thing about it in the slightest. My best ever art piece was the piece I made for Gerik for his bday (lulz). But I do know a thing or two about diplomacy. There are some artists who are just waay too hostile in their critiques to other pieces and artists, just like there are some RPers who are waay too hostile in their critiques toward other RP styles. People need to understand that it's human nature to NOT want to be criticized. As such, criticism is an art in and of itself. Coming out and saying "it sucks, you need to change it" is a recipe for disaster. It's not the critique people are up in arms about. It's the way it came out. I'm going to give an example of how this particular critique could have been handled without any hurt feelings, drama, or any other craziness. The below does not necessarily reflect my own stance. It's merely an example of how people SHOULD handle these kinds of things in my opinion.
What should have transpired Wrote:Wow, Mtoto. I can't wait to see the finished product. I hope this is okay, but can I offer you a couple of hopefully helpful tips? I think that particular piece could end up being misinterpreted by some as just mirroring another existing piece. I think it would be a lot better and more unique if you changed the stance up and, as a result, also change the way the folds in the clothing are. Heck, you may even take it a step further and change the outfit completely if you're feeling daring. By changing the pose, I mean something kinda akin to this:
Spoiler: show
Again, looking forward to the final piece. Keep at it. :afro:
![[Image: RH0i5.png]](http://i.imgur.com/RH0i5.png)
I really wish people understood that it's not what you say, it's how you say it. On the Internet, it's made worse since tone is mostly lost and you have to go a bit further to create a positive tone.
That's all I'll say on the matter. This goes toward criticisms of any nature, whether it's art or something else.
Re: Art Discussion - Aysun - 01-06-2013
I think it wouldn't have been such a bickering match if it'd been brought up more tactfully.
Finally, it's not really our place to say what has been plagiarized. The artists of the original works can decide that.
Re: Art Discussion - Isilme - 01-06-2013
Unless the artist in question is charging for the pics he's producing, or copying art that is only available to those who pay a fee (Obviously not, as they're freely posted here), then I don't see the problem.
He's copying poses and gear. So what? You are complaining about something he is producing entirely free, and for his own amusement.
It's roughly equivalent to complaining about someone playing a game of GTA IV with cheats on. It's not worth drama.
Re: Art Discussion - Aysun - 01-06-2013
Isilme, The poses are identical. The clothing is near identical. The only thing that is different is the color scheme and character faces. On DA he has all these finished works posted with no credits to the original poses there either.
It may be fanart, it may be practice, but you can't just claim it as your own if it's not.. People were raving about his talent and such when it wasn't really his own idea. That's why it's plagiarism.
Re: Art Discussion - Zesiro Ghalib - 01-06-2013
Aysun Wrote:I think it wouldn't have been such a bickering match if it'd been brought up more tactfully.
Finally, it's not really our place to say what has been plagiarized. The artists of the original works can decide that.
You just said it wasn't your place to say.
Re: Art Discussion - Aysun - 01-06-2013
Zesiro Ghalib Wrote:Aysun Wrote:I think it wouldn't have been such a bickering match if it'd been brought up more tactfully.
Finally, it's not really our place to say what has been plagiarized. The artists of the original works can decide that.
You just said it wasn't your place to say.
Yea I totally talked myself in a circle there. However, finding that these finished works have no credit given on DA either and that it's more than one instance has convinced me otherwise. x_x
Re: Art Discussion - Mtoto Wamoto - 01-06-2013
I wasn't aware I had to credit artists based on pose. To that end, I've changed it to reflect that. However, there is a reason I don't sig any of these or put a water mark on them.
Re: Art Discussion - Yssen - 01-06-2013
In my experience, those looking for a coup de grace are precisely those trying to win an argument.
The wise general considers the cost of victory before seeking it. What did you hope to gain here exactly? Are you pleased with the results? What was the goal? Help me out here, what was the point?
I would advise you tone down the zeal a bit. It has blinded you to some key points here your really have missed.
Re: Art Discussion - Folken - 01-06-2013
It's so baffling how people cannot see the insult in this process of drawing.
So let me put it in a way you all could hopefully easier understand.
Say you wrote a story for your respective RP character, or hell, even a well thought out backstory which you meticulously typed and wrote. And then you come across someone who has copied what you wrote verbatim. The only differences are that they changed the names and that's it.
How would that make you feel, hmm? And then you confront the person who stole your work and they simply say "It was just for my friends! So they could read it! I wasn't going to get it published or sell it!" And yet it still sits there, posted under someone else's name.
That is exactly what this is. Just because it's not for profit doesn't make it any less wrong.
Mtoto, you have talent, it's apparent. So stop doing this to yourself, you're a better artist than that man. You see a pose you like? Fine, use it, but add yourself to the picture. Make it truly yours, not by just changing a few small details here and there. Experiment and learn, then you'll get good enough you won't have to rely on references so much.
One of my favorite artists is Yoji Shinkawa, I adore his art style, and yet, I experiment and I try to emulate his style sometimes. This doesn't mean I copy one of his characters or drawings. I look at his stuff and then try my hand at his style on my own piece. In the end, I've experimented, learned, and grown to be a better artist for it. All done without replicating a piece of his, but instead creating something of my own that emulates his artistic vision.
Re: Art Discussion - Aysun - 01-06-2013
I wish you would have said it like that from the beginning.
Re: Art Discussion - Eva - 01-06-2013
My view has shifted a bit with the new information and I'm glad to see that Mtoto is offering credit to the original artist in those instances.
However my opinion remains unchanged that it's kind of tactless in the way this was brought up. A PM to the artist to address these concerns rather than a public outcry would have saved a lot of senseless drama and confusion.
Re: Art Discussion - Zesiro Ghalib - 01-06-2013
Mtoto Wamoto Wrote:I wasn't going to comment earlier due to the fact that I had already said my piece. However, because I stated several times that the things I had posted were works in progress (translate to subject to change if that better suits your tastes) I find it insulting that you go on to call what I'm doing plagiarism. YES, I did use another artists work as influence and inspiration(Akihiko Yoshida's, the artist of FFXIV, to be exact). YES I did use the poses in the respected art works as a base because I wanted to do FANART for my friends. I'm drawing from the pieces I'm looking at, I'm not drawing on. If anyone were to have asked, "Hey Mtoto, these character poses and the art style look familiar. Why so?" I would have responded with the simple answer that the art I used for reference came from an artist I respect and admire and that his art style is one I wish to be able to grow to be like.
I understand that plagiarism is wrong. Stealing is wrong. Blatantly copying someone else's work is wrong. However, in my finished pieces, there are major deviations from anything posted on here. I have yet to post any real final work here or anywhere else.
I don't feel what I'm doing is plagiarism because
a.) I'm not doing this and claiming I came up with the source material.
b.) artists in the past have done this same process, yet does that discredit them? - see:
c.) I'm doing this as FAN SERVICE to my friends. It's not meant to be used for commercial use or use to put into a portfolio or anything of that nature.
And just to add on to what I was saying earlier about my earlier picture being a work in progress, here is a more finalized (READ STILL WORK TO BE DONE) line art of Zolku.
And again, here is the reference I used -
[img=center]http://matteomazzali.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/1974art_archer.jpg?w=600&h=770[/img]
I have nothing else to say on the matter aside from the fact that I won't be posting anymore work in progress pieces on here any longer.
Also, get off your high horse. Your pompous aura of arrogance is belittling and your quick assumptions based off of things that have yet to be finished shows that you are quick to judge a person before even speaking to them in a civil manner. Next time you have a problem with how I draw, take it up with me via PM. No need to drag the rest of the community underfoot.
For those that missed. As it seems some have.
Re: Art Discussion - Folken - 01-06-2013
Mtoto Wamoto Wrote:b.) artists in the past have done this same process, yet does that discredit them? - see:
I'll add this is a very poor example to use to prove your point, as Disney owns both of those, they are within their rights to do exactly that. Is it lazy? certainly, but it's not plagiarism because they contractually own the rights to all that material.