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My Wiki Page Project - Ryanti - 02-27-2013

Hey guys. Good ol' Ryanti here. So yeah... I'm very bad at asking things ^^; but.. here it goes.


So I decided to start my Wiki today. I spent a few hours in front of my PC and did most of my character's family's backstory. One of the things I always tend to gravitate to when it comes to MMO's is the history.

I am fascinated by the passage of time, and how the passage of time advances people, makes people progress, and the sensation of writing about many, many years gone by has led me to do something really ambitious for my character.

I'm not just really making the wiki about my character, but I'm also making it about the history of my character's family. (Whether or not that will be eventually a separate article is unknown at this point.) This is my first wiki I've ever made and I'm already now just beginning to realize the ambitiousness of what I'm doing.

But it isn't like I don't want to be ambitious, quite the opposite. It's just, I realized that I sacrificed being able to complete an assignment tonight so I could post the information I could. I realized that, y'know, I'm a college student. I can come up with the story, but when it comes to trying to edit the whole thing in regards to certain tasks, I can only do so much because I have to manage time appropriately.

Here's the link to the wiki:

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ryanti_Veanysus

Now, I'm a relative newcomer to the Final Fantasy XIV history and lore. I've only recently begun to dig in it. I managed to get a hold of the vague timeline, and have recently read the detailed timeline you guys have here.

With that being said, I've written down a great lil'... idea, of what I want to do with the family, mostly about the history of it and the effect it has in the every day lives of Eorzea.

But.. I don't know how it 'sounds'. Basically.. I don't know what... 'fits'. My philosophy is to bend the lore as much as I can before it breaks. That's what I'm trying to do with this.

I'm also trying to make this storyline interesting, and openly accessible for anyone to participate, even to play family members if so desired. I want it to be able to be a story where it would be easy for others to either get interested or participate or get involved somehow if they want to be involved with my character IC in that form or fashion, or intertwine history.

But I need help.

So.. I guess, if anyone would volunteer to look this over in the least, and tell me what I can do to make it sound more appropriate to the lore? What I can do to make it better? Or help me work out the cobwebs and allow these ideas to blossom into something spectacular?

I feel like I'm a little... overwhelmed, and I need a little bit of guidance and advice and just, y'know... a hand to grab me if this thing starts swallowing me whole.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Gospel Gestalt - 03-04-2013

Alright, finally took some time to look this over and I'll try to be as clean and kind about this as possible. This history is sloppy and I don't think this will work for your character because it pushes and even breaks the lore in some regards.

However, I will break down and provide why they bend or break the lore and hopefully try and guide you to a more balanced and socially acceptable character.

:::Remember that this is only constructive criticism!:::

--

The bad:

First: The character's lineage. You state your family has Allagan blood. Even if it's a rumor, it's a poor one, even to jokingly hint at. The Allagan Empire existed long before any of the races even were known or discovered. We also do not know if the Allagans are even related to any of the current races. The only revealed Allagans to have existed in our time (The 16/17th century) has been Nael van Darnus and Allagan emperor, King Xandes. (Which was revealed as an ARR spoiler in a past dev letter by Yoshi P.)

I honestly feel trying to claim having a lineage to a race, that for the most part long died out, even before any of the other races even reached Eorzea is a weak link.

Second: The Second is ties to the Syndacite. The Syndacite is comprised of "six" and only six members.

The current living members of the Syndicate are as follows.

Chairman, Lord Lolorito of the East Aldenard Trading Company.
Prince, Teledji Adeledji of the Mirage Trust.
Director, Eolande of Frondale's Phrontistery.
Prior, Dewlala of Milvaneth Sacrarium.
Chief foreman, Fyrgeiss of Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern.
Flame General, Raubahn Aldynn, ex-champion of the Coliseum.

Flame General Raubahn Aldynn being the newest member of these, it's completely unknown when and how the other members got their seats. General Raubahn also has close ties to the current Sultana Nanamo Ul Namo, but the relations among the rest of the Syndicate is quite poor.

Third: Another thing you should probably understand is that Ul'dah and Limsa's relationship is actually quite poor. Having a family that has ties to both is bad because the Barricudas and The Syndacite are the most powerful sects within their respective nations. If you insisted on having one though it would either be one or the other and as I stated above. Having any ties with The Syndacite just really wouldn't work.

However, you could possibly get away with saying you had a member with The Barricudas at one time, but seeing as how your character has more ties with Ul'dah than Limsa. I think it would be safer to focus on Ul'dah.

Fourth: Next we have that your family is listed as "A Merchant Empire" and you list all these businesses and what not that technically do not exist in the game. How do you explain this and how do you possibly expect other characters to know or even safely acknowledge that your characters family owns and operates something like that? I feel something like this would conflict especially with the most seasoned of RPers who are crafters or just adventurers who know their way around the towns.

I mostly bring this up because for the most part, the market is pretty much in lock down by The Syndacite and is only becoming stronger. An example would be The Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern. This guild on its own pretty much owns the entire mining industry in Eorzea. The father has 2 sons and a daughter, with the family business being passed down to the sons and the daughter marrying a rich noble from Gridania to expand their reach in other places. The daughter specifically stating that she was going to build a museum in honor of the lost city: Sil'dih.


--

Now with that venting out of the way, let's see about the good and salvageable things with your characters history.

The Good:

First: Most of this stems only from your characters "Lineage" and not the actual character itself. So the good is that you can still adjust your background without it effecting your main character.

Second: It's still perfectly okay to have a "rich" and successful family in Ul'dah without having crazy ties to all the key figures in the game. There are still aristocratic families within Ul'dah and you can probably get away with still being a wealthy little group. You mentioned the whole tupperware business in your wiki. You could probably slip by if you focus purely on that being the key reason for your families success. It would just be a matter of finding a way to properly and safely explaining it to other people in an actual IC scenario.

More people would be willing to accept your character as not being insane and will take him more seriously if you stick to just one strong source of income as opposed to having ten dozen.

Seeing how your wiki is mostly just lineage stuff. This is about as much advice as I can offer. I'd really recommend revamping it to give a more focused history to help explain and solidify why your family gained success in the tupperware business. Also in terms of Lineage length, I would say that you don't need to go back so far. Just focus on the parents and grandparents and leave it at that. Sometimes less is more. If you wanted to, you could try explaining that your grandfather or great grandfather was a miner or goldsmith and eventually got the idea (Maybe from his wife?) to start designing or fashioning silverware with the wealth and yields he accumulated through mining? That way you could explain how the business was founded and could go up the family tree explaining how the recent family has served to improve and maintain the tupperware thing.

And that's all I got.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Ellie - 03-05-2013

It seems a little weird that Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah would have a bad relationship, especially for Ul'dah, considering that Limsa is such a large port city and Ul'dah is the center of trade. Seems like it'd be horrible business for one to not want anything to do with another, which might matter to Ul'dah more than it would to Limsa.

Was there something in the lore that I'm missing, Gospel?

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Mtoto Wamoto - 03-05-2013

(03-05-2013, 12:06 AM)Ellie Wrote: It seems a little weird that Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah would have a bad relationship, especially for Ul'dah, considering that Limsa is such a large port city and Ul'dah is the center of trade. Seems like it'd be horrible business for one to not want anything to do with another, which might matter to Ul'dah more than it would to Limsa.

Was there something in the lore that I'm missing, Gospel?

The Grand Company quests in 1.0 give rise to the ongoing feud between the two city-states. Limsa, while a naval power, seeks to become a military power on the mainland of Aldernard, going so far as to push on Vesper Bay and conduct pirate raids on the coast to disrupt Ul'dah's trade. The threat of the Garleans is really the only thing holding Limsa from just storming Thanalan and plundering Ul'dah.

You also have to realize that outside of the Grand Companies and their leaders, the three nations hold a very loose bond, and many of their ties are connected more to economic stability such as the relationship between Gridania and Ul'dah, where the former is in debt to the latter.

Gospel can go into more detail than I can, but that's really the gist of it.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Rhio - 03-05-2013

From my recollection, it's less that Ul'dah and Limsa hate one another and more that both of them see the other as a necessary evil they'd like to be rid of. Limsa needs a market but can't serve as one as effective as Ul'dah, and Ul'dah would rather be in charge of all aspects of supply. The conflicts in 1.0 between the Flames and the Maelstrom make it clear that both sides are willing to kick quite a lot of dirt at one another if they think they can actually get away with it.

The city-states of Eorzea, as a rule, do not like one another all that much. There's a strong Greek feeling to them, wherein your city is the good one and the group a few miles down the road is outright evil. That having been said, having a place in both cities is entirely plausible, but you'd be seen as something of an outsider in either.

Onto constructive criticism beyond that.

Thus far, Ryanti's family history definitely feels like the story that the family tells itself. This is not a bad thing. The question is how much of it is absolute fact and how much of it is based entirely upon the endless ego of a large family resting on past laurels. If his family claims to be descended from the Allagan Empire with a long string of genius members, that's great, but it's also the sort of thing that's relying on historical records which are spotty at best and nonexistent at worst. Note that the possibility that these claims are complete nonsense doesn't remove the pressure of being an heir from Ryanti in the slightest, since veracity isn't the first priority of most old money.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Aysun - 03-05-2013

I guess I'll just point out the simplest of oddities I noticed.

He's a Miqo'te, right? Assuming his line is pure (which I'd expect if he is noble, as well as SE saying that interbreeding within the races is uncommon), his ancestors would be from the migratory group that came to Eorzea during Fifth Umbral Era, presumably long after the Allagans reign in the Third Astral Era.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Ryanti - 03-05-2013

(03-05-2013, 01:19 AM)Aysun Wrote: I guess I'll just point out the simplest of oddities I noticed.

He's a Miqo'te, right? Assuming his line is pure (which I'd expect if he is noble or something), his ancestors would be from the migratory group that came to Eorzea during Fifth Umbral Era, presumably long after the Allagans reign in the Third Astral Era.

He's from a Hyurian bloodline. He ended up with that because his father found love in a Miqo'te. Didn't get the best feedback from his parents from doing that.

Also, I haven't put Ryanti's history down on paper, but that's definitely going to be the vocal point, not his family. I didn't think I got that across before.

Anyway, feedback's been noted, though I warn it'll take longer to fix. If not because of creative processes, because things got frozen off my hands, and it's covered in blisters so it makes it moderately painful to type. Also, because college. Which is eating up all of my time.

Brainstorming is welcome too if you wish. It would help me with time management.

Also, I really want to do something Allagan. Because I have always been fascinated with the supremely advanced vanished ancient empire archetype.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Aysun - 03-05-2013

(03-05-2013, 01:24 AM)Ryanti Wrote:
(03-05-2013, 01:19 AM)Aysun Wrote: I guess I'll just point out the simplest of oddities I noticed.

He's a Miqo'te, right? Assuming his line is pure (which I'd expect if he is noble or something), his ancestors would be from the migratory group that came to Eorzea during Fifth Umbral Era, presumably long after the Allagans reign in the Third Astral Era.

He's from a Hyurian bloodline. He ended up with that because his father found love in a Miqo'te. Didn't get the best feedback from his parents from doing that.

Also, I haven't put Ryanti's  history down on paper, but that's definitely going to be the vocal point, not his family. I didn't think I got that across before.

Anyway, feedback's been noted, though I warn it'll take longer to fix. If not because of creative processes, because things got frozen off my hands, and it's covered in blisters so it makes it moderately painful to type.

Brainstorming is welcome too if you wish. It would help me with time management.

Also, I really want to do something Allagan. Because I have always been fascinated with the supremely advanced vanished ancient empire archetype.

I probably would have seen that if I read the whole thing. Sorry. Smile
Though I guess being from Hyur lineage is just as bad, because they came even later! But anyway. If you're very interested in Allagan, why not be a scholarly sort who's studying them/fascinated by them? Which would be interesting because I think most characters do not ICly know much/anything about the Allagans.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Folken - 03-05-2013

(03-05-2013, 01:24 AM)Ryanti Wrote: Also, I really want to do something Allagan. Because I have always been fascinated with the supremely advanced vanished ancient empire archetype.

A better option then would to play a character who has a fascination with the Allagan empire, studying it, trying to find out everything they could about the long lost civilization. 

Being a descendant just screams Gary Stu-y to me. But it's your call.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Merri - 03-05-2013

Also, alongside everything that has been mentioned about the Allagan Empire, it was mentioned that house Darnus and it's bloodline was pretty much the keepers of Allagan lore and knowledge on Hydaelyn. I think SE even went so far as to say that house Darnus is the only confirmed bloodline to still exist that has roots with the Allagans.

Which leads me to believe the Allagans may have been Elezen, seeing as we can assume Darnus was elezen based on his body structure. It was mentioned that Elezen were the original inhabitants of Eorzea (and they were not happy with the Miqo'te and Hyur creeping up on their territory~) if my mind serves me correctly, and it seems there are lots of Allagan Ruins in Eorzea. Pure speculation, however.

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Kylin - 03-05-2013

I think it's pretty cool you want to give such an extensive story behind your family Cool . I know first-hand that doing such is no easy feat. My House Mavanix history took a tremendous amount of effort, time, and thought to complete, so I know it's quite a challenge. Just be mindful of some of the things people have already mentioned so you don't put yourself in a corner or make it difficult to be taken seriously. You'll notice that I kept away from mentioning things like the Syndicate, Sultana, or other NPC structures created by SE. While House Mavanix was certainly influential and powerful, it was important to keep their influence away from potential lore-breaking aspects in the game. While it's not mentioned in the wiki much, there are IC chats in game where I have made it clear that the house had to get permission from certain more powerful establishments in Eorzea's lore to go about their excavations and so on. And the end of the wiki profile/storyline is a prime example of how one can indirectly use powerful SE made NPCs without breaking lore--it was Ul'dahn officials who dissolved House Mavanix due to the bad name it was giving Ul'dahn nobles from all of its deception that came to light. This also makes it abundantly clear that the house had no power/influence over more powerful figures likes the Syndicate, something I think is important to establish in these kind of stories.

That being said, I'll give you my personal experience on the whole thing in hopes that it helps you somehow. Please note that House Mavanix no longer exists. The big public storyline that played out before the end of 1.0 resulted in their downfall, and the revelation that my primary characters actually belonged to another noble family (House Felstar). There's a very good reason I went about this IC "reset," and I'll explain that in a bit.

The first thing I did when I set out on this project was establish the current era of House Mavanix. This was the easiest part because I already had my main character's immediate family planned out. So it was easy to know who the reigning patriarch was (his father), and establish what House Mavanix was all about. I set the family's roots around artifacts, as I figured this would give rise to numerous interactive RP possibilities down the line. So the family was essentially the owners of a museum called the Avalon Heritage Museum. They had a small excavation team that worked on finding artifacts to add to said museum. Originally, this was meant to be the only real source of the family's wealth. But when one starts creating a more in depth history, things start to get added in along the way xD.

Anywho...once I established the very basics of the current era, I decided to go all the way back to the first era and start working toward the current era from there. The first thing I had to do was establish how far back to go. I didn't want to go too far back for fear of not having enough lore to make things believable. But I wanted a strong lineage that spanned back a decent amount of time. I ultimately went with a 200 year history, as lore kinda starts getting more sketchy 250-300 years in the past in regards to Ul'dahn and Sil'dihn lore (or at least at the time of my creating the history). So I went to work in starting the founding of House Mavanix ~200 years ago. I needed to tie it into the whole museum/excavation concept as well. So Joachim Mavanix (a foreign military man turned lower class miner upon arriving to Eorzea) was born, though much of his history remained purposely mysterious.The rest is history and can be viewed in the wiki profile. Those who read it will notice that there are a lot of murky details the further you go back in the history. This is a natural vibe I wanted to create, as the same is true in real life. The further back one goes in history, the more hazy certain details become.

Once the founding era and current era were hashed out, it was merely a matter of filling in the middle. This is where things get a bit more fun, as there are plenty of oppurtunities to have side stuff going on such as internal family drama, external threats, etc. Long story short, like many of my stories, a lot of the in between content was made up as I went along. This is where concepts such as the Mavanix Academy (still used by other RPers in some of their own backgrounds ^^) and Margarah (fashion line that I've grown very fond of) were born. Other enemies were also formulated along the way, including a breakaway portion of the family called "Decretum Umbra," who served as a major antagonist for the Outer Heaven RP shell back in the day. And then I just found ways to tie it all together into a neat little package. The one thing to keep in mind here is that I don't like throwaway characters. Every character I ever make (and people here will testify that there were a lot of 'em xD) has a purpose. Every character has a story and should be given enough attention to reflect that. Treating characters as throwaways and simple filler will only cheapen the entire history/story. Every character needs to be viewed as a unique entity of their own rather than just someone who exists solely to fill in a gap. I think I succeeded pretty well at doing this, and those who actually followed the full history of the family (wiki and in game) can probably attest to that.

So after all my work and attention to detail, why would I allow it to be ICly destroyed? Why would I ICly reset my characters to be part of a different family? To put it simply, it was because of the extensive history itself that I did this. House Mavanix became an entity of its own, separate from my own characters. Its vast history completely removed my focus from my main characters (namely Kylin and Elza). My characters became 'slaves' to the family history rather than their own entities. It was almost as if my actual main characters become throwaways themselves, and I couldn't have this. As long as House Mavanix existed, they'd continue to be overshadowed by the house itself. While I enjoyed creating the extensive history and RPing parts of it out in game, a person is only capable of focusing on so much at once. And my focus shifted /away/ from my actual primary characters. Of course, I don't believe in retconning as such things can impact other characters you met along the way. So instead, I worked a storyline to ICly shift my characters away from House Mavanix entirely and free them of those shackles so to speak. While I'm now working on a history for House Felstar as well, it's going to be faaar less extensive and was purposely designed to be easy to follow. While the history technically goes slightly further back than House Mavanix, it's significantly shorter and less dramatic. The family tree is VERY straightforward and less convulted and the family members in it are all perma deceased and have no need for a full blown history behind them. If someone ICly inquires in game about "so and so Felstar," it'll be a 'make it up as you go along' approach this time around. In this way, I can keep my primary focus where it matters--with my actual primary characters.

I know doing so kind of goes against my 'not creating throwaway characters just to fill the gaps' belief, but I found that one has to make sacrifices in certain areas when it comes to these kinds of things. You either make a kickass family history at the expense of your main characters, or you make kickass main characters at the expense of your extensive history. I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather have the kickass characters myself xD.

I'm not trying to persuade you one way or the other. Just giving you my experience on it all. I greatly enjoyed creating House Mavanix and its craziness. But it cost me a lot of good interactions with other RPers with my actual main characters. I spent so much time and energy RPing out the family's history that it left Kylin and Elza in very stagnant places development-wise. It's an issue I'm striving hard to resolve in ARR right from the start.

Just be mindful of where you place all your attention in this project. Either way though, good luck ^^

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Momo - 03-07-2013

I feel like the simplest advice would be, you can use main characters from the game, but make sure that you keep yourself distant enough that character for others to still appreciate your RP without it becoming too overpowering.  Basically it is like giving yourself a handicap in the RP world to cover for the desire of being linked to a main character.  Be someone's cousin, you're still in the same family, but you aren't particularly close like a sister, or a brother (which maybe you could even pull off with some of the characters since we don't have a lot of background and frankly I don't think some of it will ever be filled in).

When I create a story for a character, I just make sure that I view it all as a scale system, as if I am balancing on one side of the scale, the world in which my character exists, and on the other is the actual world that is unchangeable by the players.  I can add things into my world, but if it starts to lean too far to one side I have to give the other side some more to balance it back.  My most current characters being introduced, and more so by the time PS3 comes out, I plan to be related to a former Syndicate member, so I get the Syndicate name in there for some base and attachment for my characters, but they aren't actually so powerful as to be in a top position which would break canon.

I suppose it comes down to, I know you like to bend almost until breaking, and I think you are doing just that, but there are some seriously involved RPers here that if you are interested in RPing with, you have to reign yourself in a bit, and play by most of the same rules everyone else does.  If you can figure a way around it (which there are, but they are lengthy and tend not to come to fruition), then by all means, but otherwise, we are all happy to RP and play in the same world, but only so much can be reasonably tolerated so that the RP world which we have created doesn't go awry.  Hoping any of the things mentioned were helpful without being hurtful, or without pushing you away.  It is clear you have some interest in building your characters and putting time in to do so, so I hope you continue to consider that your mission!  Good Luck!

RE: My Wiki Page Project - Ryanti - 06-03-2013

Okay, so.

It's been a while!

After taking in the feedback, and spending.. quite a bit of time completely redesigning Ryanti's backstory/family.. I can very well say I completely redesigned the wiki page!


It should be MUCH better now.

Once again, feel free to enter your input if you like. I'll paste the link on this page too if you're feeling lazy and don't want to go back to the first page.

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ryanti_Veanysus

I'm happy with the redesign, I hope the RPC is happy too.

(Also, if you want to have your character involved with my backstory, or family, it can happen, just ask me about it.)

EDIT: Fixed a spacing issue and an issue with boxes.