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+--- Thread: [Discussion] Question on Garleans and Nobility (/showthread.php?tid=17693)
Question on Garleans and Nobility - Lucius Ignatius - 11-09-2016
Hey there! Ive recently returned, and Ive decided I wanted to try a concept that I've seriously, SERIOUSLY wanted to do, but I didnt want to level a character again and do all those shenanigans.
Basically, I'm wondering how Garlemald's nobility works. I would /think/ its similar to Ishgard's with houses and such.. but I know Garleans are similar to Romans. Is there houses like that? Could there be more than a few noble houses that are pretty much 'general' un-named noble houses?
The question came up when I was asked what my character's 'middle' rank was. I looked at this from the FF14 Wiki:
The ranks observed so far:
Royalty:
- zos: Emperor
- yae: Member of the royal family in the line of succession.
- wir: Member of the royal family with no claim to the throne.
- van: Legatus
- tol: Tribunus laticlavius or Tribunus militum
- sas: Tribunus angusticlavius or Praefectus castrorum
- rem: Primus pilus or Pilus prior
- quo: Primi ordines or Centurion
- pyr: Optio, Tesserarius or Decurion
- oen: Duplicarius or Legionarius
- nan: Chief engineer or engineer
- mal: Primus medicus or senior magitek technician
- lux: Chief medicus or magitek technician
- kir: Senior medicus or senior technician
- jen: Medicus or technician
- iyl: Dictator or Princeps senatus
- het: Consul, Praetor, Tribunus plebis, Aedilis, or Quaestor
- goe: Censor
- dus: Lictor
- fae
- eir
Would my character have to have the 'wir' rank to be considered nobility? Im not trying to be related to the emporer, or that specific family. I just want to have my own unofficial noble house. Similar to a keeper clan or tribe. Is this doable without lore-breaking?
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Yssen - 11-09-2016
You do not have to have the wir title to be nobility. It simply denotes relation to the imperial family. Nael van Darnus was from a long and prestigious noble family, but was not related to the imperial family. Similarly Cid Garlond is also from a prestigious/noble family, and is not related to the emperor. Nero is from a rival family to Cid's, so it can be assumed that there are noble houses past the imperial family. I think House Darnus is actually mentioned by name somewhere too.
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Lucius Ignatius - 11-09-2016
Interesting... what would one of a noble house have as a middle-rank then? Or would it fall to what the characters profession is in combat or trade, perhaps? Sorry if its a silly question. @-@
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Yssen - 11-09-2016
(11-09-2016, 08:54 AM)Lucius Ignatius Wrote: Interesting... what would one of a noble house have as a middle-rank then? Or would it fall to what the characters profession is in combat or trade, perhaps? Sorry if its a silly question. @-@
The Imperial titles seems to have more to do with with one's function in the empire rather than any for of heredity. Nael was a legatus and of House Darnus, hence Nael van Darnus. Cid's father was a highly regarded and important magitek engineer. The exception here is the imperial family, but even this makes sense to a degree. Zos for the emperor, Yae effectively means something like crown prince, and Wir is for imperial family not in direct line of succession.Â
A similar fictional system exists in ASOIAF with the Targaryens. All Targaryens are princes, but only some Targaryens are in line for the throne. A primary example there would be Prince Aemon the Dragon Knight. Aemon is a Targaryen prince, but unable to be in line for the throne due to his status as a knight of the Kingsguard.Â
We can safely speculate that a similar situation exists here, if somewhat modified. Particularly with the reveal that Zelos yae Galvus is the replacement governor of Ala Mhigo. They are both of the imperial family and in the line of succession for the throne. They are also the legatus of a legion, but I am guessing that whole "crowned prince" status overwrites the van title. Incidentally, the fact that this dude IS a crowned imperial prince and we are supposed to deal with them to free Ala Mhigo just SCREAMS trap to me. Like super big, we are about to be invaded trap.
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Seriphyn - 11-09-2016
Houses are a generic worldwide thing, it would appear. Ul'dah has them, Ishgard, as does Garlemald, and so forth.
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Faye - 11-09-2016
'Wir' is just the title for those with royal blood. You can be nobility without being royalty, and I would strongly encourage anyone not to give their character a royal bloodline, because that's verging too far into special snowflake territory for most people's liking. As Yssen mentioned, the titles seem to be focused on your character's role within the Empire itself rather than their lineage. Basically, your title tells what you character can do for the Empire. Garlemald is very focused on their military and the progress of their country. So for choosing your character's title, I'd recommend just figuring out what job your character would actually hold within Garlemald. In the event he just sits around as the heir to a noble family, I'd imagine he would not have a high title or much respect, because with what we know of Garlemald, I would not be surprised if they value military success and aiding Garlemald more highly than anyone's heredity.
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Caspar - 11-09-2016
It's probably true, but to an extent. Since Gaius is characterized as being unusual for promoting Rhitahtyn to Praefectus Castrorum, it may be that there is no written rule preventing non-native and vassal new citizens from rising higher in the ranks, but unspoken racism limits their advancement.
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Seriphyn - 11-09-2016
(11-09-2016, 02:22 PM)Caspar Wrote: It's probably true, but to an extent. Since Gaius is characterized as being unusual for promoting Rhitahtyn to Praefectus Castrorum, it may be that there is no written rule preventing non-native and vassal new citizens from rising higher in the ranks, but unspoken racism limits  their advancement.
Incidentally, Prafecteus Castrorum is the highest rank a non-pureblood can reach.
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Caspar - 11-09-2016
What I'm currently about is whether a promoted citizen has a mechanism to continue to rise in rank or if Gaius was totally unprecedented. Like, could Rhitatyn eventually get there through continued service or did he essentially jump way out of his box?
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Lucius Ignatius - 11-09-2016
(11-09-2016, 12:55 PM)Faye Wrote: 'Wir' is just the title for those with royal blood. You can be nobility without being royalty, and I would strongly encourage anyone not to give their character a royal bloodline, because that's verging too far into special snowflake territory for most people's liking. As Yssen mentioned, the titles seem to be focused on your character's role within the Empire itself rather than their lineage. Basically, your title tells what you character can do for the Empire. Garlemald is very focused on their military and the progress of their country. So for choosing your character's title, I'd recommend just figuring out what job your character would actually hold within Garlemald. In the event he just sits around as the heir to a noble family, I'd imagine he would not have a high title or much respect, because with what we know of Garlemald, I would not be surprised if they value military success and aiding Garlemald more highly than anyone's heredity.
Ah, this answers everything perfectly for me. XD Of course the discussion helps as well, but I wanted to be sure I wasnt accidently stepping too far with that rank. It appears I was, so it wont be a rank Ill be using. I always like to be certain of my lore before diving in.
It just appeared to me that wir would be the title for /nobles/ and royalty, but that appears not to be the case. Thank you Faye!Edit: Reading into some of the roman definitions of the ranks, I think /tol/ might be what I am looking for. I am aiming for Lucius to be a young man of nobility, has a rich family, etc. Kind of like a batman character that uses magitek devices and spying. For a lack of better comparison.
"The post was created by the Marian reforms. Its holder stood just below the legatus legionis, the legion's commander, and above the other five tribuni angusticlavii (and later the praefectus castrorum). The position was the first step of the traditional cursus honorum, the formalized sequence of public offices held by Roman nobles of the senatorial class (conversely, the tribuni angusticlavii were knights). Thus the tribunus laticlavius would usually be a young man who might belong to one of the richest families in Rome or be a close friend to the legionary commander. After two or three years in the army he would go back to Rome and be given a government job, usually a quaestorship." - Wikipedia
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Sounsyy - 11-09-2016
Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:Imperial Court
The Garlean royalty are all of the line of Galvus. In addition to the aforementioned "zos," the term "yae" refers to male members of the royal family in the line of succession, as well as the Emperor's wife and mother. There also exists the title of "wir," or those who have no claim to the throne such as female heirs and their spouses. It is believed that all members of the royal family dwell within the extravagant imperial palace in Garlemald, and have decadent villas outside of the city.
Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:The Senate
The Senate ruled Garlemald during the days of the Republic, and while since diminished, still serves as an advisory role to the emperor and his court. Members range from upper level public officials, titled "fae," to the highest-ranking princeps senatus- "iyl." The Senate also holds the power to remove the magistrates - the consul, praetor, tribunus plebis, aedilis, and quaestor. However, it has yet to use this right.
A large image of the completed Garlean Social Hierarchy Chart can be found here! This one covers the titles in far more detail than the compilation from Gubal. Note that the lore book lists ordinary citizens as "Bas" whereas Gubal lists them as "Ban." "Ban" is a typo.
Lodestone: Nael van Darnus Wrote:van Darnus boasts distinguished parentage in his sire, a founding figure of the Garlean Empire.
Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:The VIIth Imperial Legion
Having existed since days of the Garlemald Republic, the VIIth Legion became legend for its ferocity during the campaigns to unify Ilsabard. The first legatus was the father of Eula and Nael van Darnus, and remains a lauded national hero to this day.
These quotes above give us some insight into how House Darnus achieved Garlean nobility in the transition from Republic to Empire, but I just spent the last half hour combing google for some text I seem to recall from the 1.0 Lodestone suggesting that many of Garlemald's current "nobility" are members of the original founding Republic families. While this, in all likelihood, is not a requirement for nobility it could be a tidbit you consider when creating your own House of Garlemald.
It's then just a matter of deciding what position your character would hold in the Garlean hierarchy- and remember, if multiple titles apply to a single person, the higher title is always taken.
More lore on Garlemald and its history and military found outside of the lore book's pages can be found in this Garlean Lore Compilation. Hope this helps! ^^
RE: Question on Garleans and Nobility - Lucius Ignatius - 11-09-2016
(11-09-2016, 09:16 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:That is great! Thank you so much Sounsyy!Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:Imperial Court
The Garlean royalty are all of the line of Galvus. In addition to the aforementioned "zos," the term "yae" refeers to male members of the royal family in the line of succession, as well as the Emperor's wife and mother. There also exists the title of "wir," or those who have no claim to the throne such as female heirs and their spouses. It is believed that all members of the royal family dwell within the extravagant imperial palace in Garlemald, and have decadent villas outside of the city.
Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:The Senate
The Senate ruled Garlemald during the days of the Republic, and while since diminished, still serves as an advisory role to the emperor and his court. Members range from upper level public officials, titled "fae," to the highest-ranking princeps senatus- "iyl." The Senate also holds the power to remove the magistrates - the consul, praetor, tribunus plebis, aedilis, and quaestor. However, it has yet to use this right.
A large image of the completed Garlean Social Hierarchy Chart can be found here! This one covers the titles in far more detail than the compilation from Gubal. Note that the lore book lists ordinary citizens as "Bas" whereas Gubal lists them as "Ban." We believe "Bas" is a typo.
Lodestone: Nael van Darnus Wrote:van Darnus boasts distinguished parentage in his sire, a founding figure of the Garlean Empire.Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:The VIIth Imperial Legion
Having existed since days of the Garlemald Republic, the VIIth Legion became legend for its ferocity during the campaigns to unify Ilsabard. The first legatus was the father of Eula and Nael van Darnus, and remains a lauded national hero to this day.
These quotes above give us some insight into how House Darnus achieved Garlean nobility in the transition from Republic to Empire, but I just spent the last half hour combing google for some text I seem to recall from the 1.0 Lodestone suggesting that many of Garlemald's current "nobility" are members of the original founding Republic families. While this, in all likelihood, is not a requirement for nobility it could be a tidbit you consider when creating your own House of Garlemald.
It's then just a matter of deciding what position your character would hold in the Garlean hierarchy- and remember, if multiple titles apply to a single person, the higher title is always taken.
More lore on Garlemald and its history and military found outside of the lore book's pages can be found in this Garlean Lore Compilation. Hope this helps! ^^