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+--- Thread: Community Full of Cliques (/showthread.php?tid=17938)
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Valence - 12-31-2016
Honestly, watching this whole thread unfold... Makes me think people sometimes only deal in absolutes. It's either white or black.
Well I for one, and call that unpopular opinion if you will, I find there is truth in both sides of the fence. The advices given by mosts are solid and I don't think many disagree with that.
I'm also sure that experiences vary and some have had more luck than others.
I also know for a fact like the exact same way some people play the game better than others when it comes to PuGs and dungeons and stuff, well, some people are also better at finding contacts and their place than others.
And that's okay. As long as you are willing to improve and make things move in the right way, half the way is done. Then... yes, it depends on your own skills. Telling people they have to move their asses and that's only their fault they aren't finding anything is... while more or less true, also a bit harsh in itself.
You don't tell someone suffering from occasional depression to move their ass simply because you could do it. You don't tell someone crippled to perform the exact same jump you did simply because you could.
But, you can tell them alternatives. You can show them possible ways that are more affordable to their specific case.
I saw a lot of comments on that you can't know why someone ignored you. That they could be RPing in a closed circle, or didn't see you under a wall of text, or other possibilities. That's definitely true.
You can't also know why someone isn't the social butterfly you are. Some fling their social anxiety for every reason possible in a very disingenuous manner, and a lot others actually have issues like that. Telling them to move their ass or die is not going to do much except alienating them. Sometimes people are seeing through it through a privileged lens that doesn't do justice to what it actually is for others.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Alderique - 12-31-2016
It takes a lot of time and effort to build enough of a reputation that people will welcome you into their play, and sometimes even invite you directly or pursue you. We form social circles and trusted groups, that's how people are.
It can be super frustrating, and there are plenty of times when you will feel like you are awful and nobody wants to play with you. But Overall, Balmung RP is very large and very diverse, and there are tons of people looking for others to play with.
As for myself, I'm a bit selective about who I will spend extended amounts of time with. I try to be open with folks, especially in large-scale event RP, but I will only spend extensive time if I like the writer, the character, and see a willingness to be consistent and follow-through with me. Not all RP connections work either--we all flake, we all lose touch. This is fine, it happens. Just keep pressing forward.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - ArmachiA - 12-31-2016
There's just... so many reasons for everything in this discussion, that's why both sides get frustrated. There are HUNDREDS of reasons why someone did get RP or didn't get RP or got into a group fast or didn't. It's ridiculously hard to judge an entire community based on actions that are case by case. It's almost impossible to diagnose and cure said issues when there are so many. This isn't one thing ("I feel like I'm not welcome") this is a plethora of things that look like one thing. We just... don't know how to help here because we'd have to look at your case specifically and there's no way to DO that without screenshots or some kind of evidence as to what actually happened. The best we can give you is "Keep trying."
I'm not very active in the community myself. I have my own little bubble in my FC and I stick to that. Most would say my behavior is extremely cliquish. The truth is, as the GM of my guild, writing and organizing stories takes so much of my in game time (And out of game time - with meetings between all the Storytellers, helpers, and villains. Lore discussion and research to see what works and what doesn't, making sure members of the guild feel the story is open, addressing questions from members about advancing the plot, etc etc) between that and raiding I just don't have TIME to go outside of that circle. I'm hella open to new people, but most of the new people I meet are people my FC members have already met and just introduced me to. Does that make me a bad person because I can't really go out and make myself available to new people? I dunno, but that's my lot in this game.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Virella - 12-31-2016
(12-31-2016, 01:49 PM)Valence Wrote: You can't also know why someone isn't the social butterfly you are. Some fling their social anxiety for every reason possible in a very disingenuous manner, and a lot others actually have issues like that. Telling them to move their ass or die is not going to do much except alienating them. Sometimes people are seeing through it through a privileged lens that doesn't do justice to what it actually is for others.As someone with social phobia and actually cooping with it (because honestly, you will never get 'over it'), that is exactly what needs to be told to people: that they need to stop fucking hiding and get out there. Not everyone is out there to get you.
You ain't going to achieve jack shit in roleplay, or in real life, if you're going to be coddled constantly. The fact people bring this up and use it an excuse for people to hide behind is utterly disgusting to me, and in fact you're just enabling their social anxiety by stating this nonsense. Privileged lens? C'mon man, every person has issues. Is it harsh to say? Yes, but it is better then constantly enabling and talking their behaviour 'right'.
There's a difference in acknowledging it, and enabling it. Stop enabling social anxiety and social phobia. It's very harmful to those people and you're really not helping by letting them use it as an excuse and not a reason.
Edit: Also my excuses if this was not your intention to come across, I'm getting slightly drunk, English is not my native language, and I'm just generally sick and tired by people using any disorder as an excuse and not a reason.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Max - 12-31-2016
I understand the whole social anxiety can inhibit interaction thing but then poses the question of whether or not they should even be roleplaying (or, at least, expect to be roleplayed with)
I mean. RPing is social at its core. It takes two to tango. Enabling this type of behavior is only going to serve as a detriment to the community.
If you can't find RP because all you do is sit in the QS all day and are too shy to participate then that isn't the community's problem, it's your problem.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Kilieit - 12-31-2016
Assuming that the matters which Valence raises are truly at play here (which I don't doubt, really, as my second post in this thread suggests)...
I think it's important to remember that you can't take thoughts (that are caused by a disorder and not by reality), and then attack people based on them, tell them they're treating you unfairly, that they're toxic and cliqueish... when the only reason you feel bad is because your brain is messing up. You can't expect people to be OK with being called all those things when they haven't done anything.
The problem lies in your brain.
Not in the person you're attacking.
It's not fair to attack people for things that are outside of their control.
I have all the sympathy for people who find it difficult (believe it or not, I'm one of them - if you're in any of my Discord servers you'll know how often I whinge about wanting to RP but not being able to because my crappy brain won't let me) but... in these cases where anxiety really is affecting things, it needs to be called what it is, which is an internal issue caused by internal problems. No one gains anything from shoving the blame onto another when they don't deserve it.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - ArmachiA - 12-31-2016
I have severe panic disorder ama.
But seriously, I'm diagnosed and take pills for it. I understand the concern, and can empathize to an extent, but if they have social anxiety why are they partaking in a VERY social activity?
As someone who deals with severe anxiety to the point I get panic attacks, I actually don't like being coddled and abhore it when people start treating me with kid gloves once they find out.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Valence - 12-31-2016
Yes, I'm not especially speaking about the OP here. I thought were were long gone into generalities, however hard it is to do over such topics.
(12-31-2016, 02:54 PM)Virella Wrote: As someone with social phobia and actually cooping with it (because honestly, you will never get 'over it'), that is exactly what needs to be told to people: that they need to stop fucking hiding and get out there. Not everyone is out there to get you.
You ain't going to achieve jack shit in roleplay, or in real life, if you're going to be coddled constantly. The fact people bring this up and use it an excuse for people to hide behind is utterly disgusting to me, and in fact you're just enabling their social anxiety by stating this nonsense. Privileged lens? C'mon man, every person has issues. Is it harsh to say? Yes, but it is better then constantly enabling and talking their behaviour 'right'.
There's a difference in acknowledging it, and enabling it. Stop enabling social anxiety and social phobia. It's very harmful to those people and you're really not helping by letting them use it as an excuse and not a reason.
Edit: Also my excuses if this was not your intention to come across, I'm getting slightly drunk, English is not my native language, and I'm just generally sick and tired by people using any disorder as an excuse and not a reason.
Uh yeah, let's calm down a little with the blanket accusations. Case in point of what I was saying just above. We don't live in a world seen through a binary lens and you might want respectfully to re-read what I wrote - I'm not saying that with any malicious intent. I'm sure I specifically mentioned that some fling their social anxiety and disorders in very disingenuous manners at every occasion possible when they don't get it their way.
You are not the only one with a certain degree of social phobia IRL! I know perfectly well how it can be crippling, and the amount of efforts you have to do to always get the better of it.
That is why I said that being proactive and encouraging people to move their asses is good, but not the way you do it, I believe. I just have to look at the results everywhere you wrote that way, and it doesn't seem very successful, despite the potentially good intentions, if you don't mind me saying that. Maybe I'm wrong though?
(12-31-2016, 03:58 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: I have severe panic disorder ama.
But seriously, I'm diagnosed and take pills for it. I understand the concern, and can empathize to an extent, but if they have social anxiety why are they partaking in a VERY social activity?
As someone who deals with severe anxiety to the point I get panic attacks, I actually don't like being coddled and abhore it when people start treating me with kid gloves once they find out.
Same here really. You seem to only see in black and white what I said above. I never, ever, said that you have to take kids gloves with social anxiety. You both are really putting words in my mouth.
I don't think that anyone with any kind of ailment really enjoys being considered differently than others.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Kage - 12-31-2016
If everyone is misunderstanding your intentions, you might want to revisit the idea that you have failed to properly communicate your point. Chances are more likely that you didn't do a good job of getting your point across than everyone else misunderstanding you.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Faye - 12-31-2016
(12-18-2016, 09:16 PM)Faye Wrote: As a person who does have severe social anxiety (hi, yes, hello), I still understand that no one is obligated to approach me or respond to me and that I am not entitled to RP from anyone. I understand that I more than most people have to remind myself not to take out my frustrations and others and understand that they have their own problems and that the world does not revolve around me. I understand that every time I am unnoticed or ignored is not an intentional or malicious act, and that even when it is, I cannot and should not paint the entire community with a generality based on a few sparse interactions. I know that as a person who struggles with these things, I cannot let myself fall into a downward spiral of getting discouraged and pointing my finger at others.
In short, I have to manage, and I know that, and no one else is responsible if I fail in that. The people who take their RP to party so that they don't aggravate any conditions they might have and hurt themselves emotionally or physically, so they don't miss an RP event they would enjoy, so they don't blow up or bail on their friends? They're managing. The people who have a meltdown or fall into despair because someone does not reply to their post? They're not managing. That's the key difference here. And no, your "management" should not involve forcing anyone else to sacrifice theirs.
Just gonna repeat a thing I said earlier in this thread. It can be hard to make lasting connections, find the RP that you're looking for, and settle into your own place in the community, even without extra hurdles like social anxiety and such in your way. And I really do empathize with anyone feeling disheartened and disappointed, because we've all been there (yes, even people who presumably have "cliques" and whatnot) and because there are some valid reasons for it and problems within the community.
But blaming others and the community as a whole for the results of your own problems--even problems you can't really help like mental illness--does not help anyone. It pushes people away from you which only worsens your problem, it annoys and upsets the people around you, and it enables your issues and leaves you feeling even more negatively than before. When you have an issue like social anxiety it's very easy to take out your frustrations on others (because you obviously aren't at fault for it, but hey, someone has to take the blame, right?) so it's important to avoid doing that if you're the person suffering from it, and it's important for others not to just accept mistreatment because someone has social anxiety.
And, of course, it's useful to stop and think for a moment that maybe the people you're demonizing for not approaching you have social anxiety as well, or similar problems of their own. I think the correct way to show sensitivity to these issues is not to enable others to lash out at the community because of them. I think you can give others advice, be kind and encouraging to them and simultaneously say "hey, knock off trying to point fingers at everyone around you and take responsibility." These things aren't at odds with each other. After all, if you're feeling dissatisfied in situations like these, the only person who can make a change is you. It's not exactly helpful for anyone if people let you wallow in your own misery.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Varinh - 12-31-2016
(12-31-2016, 09:44 AM)Willow Wrote:(12-31-2016, 09:30 AM)Evaleigh Wrote: Question Has anyone ever used Party Finder to find RP contacts? Â Did that work for you?
Ooo I've actually been wondering that myself, so I think I'll try tonight and post results
Update: I'm having ridiculous amounts of success with this. Got a hit in the first five minutes and have added a handful of new folks on my friend's list. I had a quick little blurb about the character and offered a service she might be able to provide while making it sound light-hearted and fun, and I've been met with nothing but positivity. I really recommend it! (Will definitely be doing more of this in the future.)
RE: Community Full of Cliques - EliBallard - 12-31-2016
(12-31-2016, 02:54 PM)Virella Wrote:(12-31-2016, 01:49 PM)Valence Wrote: You can't also know why someone isn't the social butterfly you are. Some fling their social anxiety for every reason possible in a very disingenuous manner, and a lot others actually have issues like that. Telling them to move their ass or die is not going to do much except alienating them. Sometimes people are seeing through it through a privileged lens that doesn't do justice to what it actually is for others.As someone with social phobia and actually cooping with it (because honestly, you will never get 'over it'), that is exactly what needs to be told to people: that they need to stop fucking hiding and get out there. Not everyone is out there to get you.
You ain't going to achieve jack shit in roleplay, or in real life, if you're going to be coddled constantly. The fact people bring this up and use it an excuse for people to hide behind is utterly disgusting to me, and in fact you're just enabling their social anxiety by stating this nonsense. Privileged lens? C'mon man, every person has issues. Is it harsh to say? Yes, but it is better then constantly enabling and talking their behaviour 'right'.
There's a difference in acknowledging it, and enabling it. Stop enabling social anxiety and social phobia. It's very harmful to those people and you're really not helping by letting them use it as an excuse and not a reason.
Edit: Also my excuses if this was not your intention to come across, I'm getting slightly drunk, English is not my native language, and I'm just generally sick and tired by people using any disorder as an excuse and not a reason.
People handle anxiety and disorders in different ways and unless you're a medical professional shouldn't tell them they're doing it wrong. I'll agree that the OP came in frustrated and somewhat accusatory, but she likely just needed to vent and things weren't helped by your post on the first page that came off -way- more aggressive than anyone else or was necessary.
You talked about how threads like this are damaging to community, but I feel that people chasing others away for legitimate concerns is more damaging, even if you're 'sick of hearing them'. You can just not read the threads.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - RavieRaptor - 01-01-2017
(12-31-2016, 09:43 AM)Virella Wrote: I think these threads are very damaging to the community in truth. They scare off new roleplayers potentially, they make certain people look entitled. It is a complete mess on both sides of the fence. The thread name alone already made people wanting to go for the OP throats due to her statement of basically going 'You're all dicks, fuck you for not giving me RP, you damn cliques' attitude if you don't read into further. I know now that it wasn't her intention. And if your new to the RPC? You're just going to be given the impression the community is a huge clique. While it is not.I never accused anyone. Thank you. You just keep saying "oh you think youre oligated to get rp." I Never mentioned this AT ALL. If anything you seem to be attacking me for bringing this up. It was a simple rant that people could've avoided.
These type of threads are just... not helping. They set the RP community in a very bad daylight, while I'm certain most roleplayers on Balmung don't even use the RPC, let alone check it regularly.
I really think this could have been a good discussion (and it still is to some degree), if the OP didn't start pointing accusations from the start. If it was a "LF help finding RP" thread? Even a change in the title alone would have gotten a lot better and more positive replies. You reap what you sow.
Also, no, I have no experience using party finder to look for roleplay. I do however seen people use it to promote their events; what I do think is a cool thing to do, and from what I've heard its quite successful.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - RavieRaptor - 01-01-2017
(01-01-2017, 12:13 AM)RavieRaptor Wrote:I also have social anxiety and depression. But i try to approach people despite this. I dont hide behind it. You're being very blunt, yes, but you're also being aggressive and mean to someone for no reason.(12-31-2016, 09:43 AM)Virella Wrote: I think these threads are very damaging to the community in truth. They scare off new roleplayers potentially, they make certain people look entitled. It is a complete mess on both sides of the fence. The thread name alone already made people wanting to go for the OP throats due to her statement of basically going 'You're all dicks, fuck you for not giving me RP, you damn cliques' attitude if you don't read into further. I know now that it wasn't her intention. And if your new to the RPC? You're just going to be given the impression the community is a huge clique. While it is not.I never accused anyone. Thank you. You just keep saying "oh you think youre oligated to get rp." I Never mentioned this AT ALL. If anything you seem to be attacking me for bringing this up. It was a simple rant that people could've avoided.
These type of threads are just... not helping. They set the RP community in a very bad daylight, while I'm certain most roleplayers on Balmung don't even use the RPC, let alone check it regularly.
I really think this could have been a good discussion (and it still is to some degree), if the OP didn't start pointing accusations from the start. If it was a "LF help finding RP" thread? Even a change in the title alone would have gotten a lot better and more positive replies. You reap what you sow.
Also, no, I have no experience using party finder to look for roleplay. I do however seen people use it to promote their events; what I do think is a cool thing to do, and from what I've heard its quite successful.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - LiadansWhisper - 01-01-2017
(01-01-2017, 12:22 AM)RavieRaptor Wrote: You're being very blunt, yes, but you're also being aggressive and mean to someone for no reason.
I'm just going to mention here that Virella is not, if I remember correctly, a native English speaker. I'm not even sure if English is her second, third, or fourth language.