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Blue Magic - Printable Version

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Blue Magic - Stacesune - 01-09-2017

I first apologize if this is something that has already been discussed or answered before. I did give a show of searching the forum before making my (first) post, but it turned up a lot of random posts and probably shows I'm kinda dink at using forum searches, so early apologies.

Onto the topic at hand, if you know what a blue mage is you can skip this first bit. For those of you who have not seen the wonders of the blue mage, I want you to go buy FF9 on steam right now and fall in love with Quina. Blue magic is a unique form of magic where the user learns to use the magic of an enemy, unique to their kind only, through various means (being hit with the spell enough times, eating them, etc.) Such spells such as the Cactuar's 1000 needles, or the Marlboro's Bad Breath, are just examples of what they learn, and then through whatever means manage to replicate in future battles.

I've began work on a new character, having manages to server hop over to Balmung finally, and while I know the class may probably never see the light of day due to game limitations, I wonder if lorewise the capability of someone learning how to replicate the spells of certain enemies is supported, via direct magical capability or through use of magical implements, or perhaps even through an altered version of what summoners do. AND, if so, to what extent would you say it would be limited? For example (But not intent) could they even mimic certain powers of the primals such as Ifrit's Hellfire, if they had the grasp and capability?

Just mostly wanting to see what I have to work with before I dump a lot of backstory and plot into my upcoming character.

RE: Blue Magic - Solenne - 01-09-2017

There are some people who theorize that the second new job in the upcoming expansion will be blue mage, actually, so this idea might work even better than you think. But even if that doesn't turn out to be the case (and I'm pretty sure we're going to find out for certain during the EU Fan Fest in February), I still wouldn't consider it lore-breaking to play a character who learns new magical skills via observation like a blue mage. If your mage character is particularly clever and willing to get hit with some unpleasant magic in the name of science, I see no reason why they couldn't pull it off. Wink

RE: Blue Magic - Stacesune - 01-09-2017

(01-09-2017, 04:47 AM)Solenne Wrote: There are some people who theorize that the second new job in the upcoming expansion will be blue mage, actually, so this idea might work even better than you think. But even if that doesn't turn out to be the case (and I'm pretty sure we're going to find out for certain during the EU Fan Fest in February), I still wouldn't consider it lore-breaking to play a character who learns new magical skills via observation like a blue mage. If your mage character is particularly clever and willing to get hit with some unpleasant magic in the name of science, I see no reason why they couldn't pull it off. Wink

Part of my intent, yes. I'm essentially making a.. Well "Monster Hunter/Scholar" who not only intends to experience the magic himself, but study the creature using the magic to fully grasp the way they use their spells for reproduction. I suppose its easiest to say an Arcanist who decided to learn his own brand of magic. Plausibly with some less than approved augmentations to himself, of course... I mean, who hasn't wanted to play a scientist who comes off completely pleasant then suddenly reveals he's not all right in the head ;D

And of course, I do take into consideration how taxing certain spells will be for them to recast. I mean, a Goblin Punch is one thing, but copying bad breath can drain a man, and hooooboy lets not talk about if he tries to copy Primal spells.

RE: Blue Magic - Valence - 01-09-2017

If you really want to dabble in your classic blue magic FF trope, I'm afraid we don't really have anything in lore right now as far as I know. But as suggested above you can wait for the next fanfest and see if the next revealed job for 4.0 will be blue mage. That way if it's the case, then you might have a safer framework to work with, even if you will still lack most of the specific history, classquests and lore specifically tied to the class in Eorzea. For that, you will unfortunately have to wait for 4.0, if blue mage is confirmed that is.

However as you say, summoners tend to learn their spells and magicks when directly or indirectly confronting primals, or primal essences. That's not exactly blue magic as they don't learn it by being hit though, and their learning is limited to primals only, not your average everyday (or less everyday) creature of Eorzea.

A summoner could totally mimic Ifrit hellfire, since we know for certain that at least the WoL can mimic Bahamut's Deathflare and Painflare when they get frustrated that the Elder Primal is too much to chew when it comes to directly summon him. We also know that Tristan, the antagonist of the SMN quests, replicates Ifrit various abilities. Since we know that lesser primals like Ifrit, Garuda and Titan can be summoned as gimped versions of themselves (Egis), I don't think it's too much of a stretch to conclude that their abilities should not be a huge deal to learn for summoners. It becomes way harder with bigger primals that you can't directly summon, being too powerful for that and out of reach (for now).

Then you have the unconventional Allagan road I think. We know for example that Ultilma Weapon was able to directly syphon primals and store their energies, spells and abilities in its aetherochemical tanks and advanced computers. And cast them at will, as shown in the assault on the Praetorium when facing Gaius in control of the Ultima. Well, that's super advanced prototype allagan tech though, so... It might not be the most accessible thing ever, but that's a possible mechanic lore wise.

RE: Blue Magic - Stacesune - 01-09-2017

(01-09-2017, 05:03 AM)Valence Wrote: -Snip-

I confess to not having really focused on a lot of classes outside of MNK and DRG to date so I was far from aware of that. Thank you for that. Knowing that its accessible, even if probably impractical compared to the easier route of just being a summoner Tongue, means I have at the least a place to base my moving forward with until the class itself is released in game.

RE: Blue Magic - Jana - 01-09-2017

The level 50 SMN skill, Inkindle, let's the summoned Egi use that primal's supermove. It's not quite the same as the summoner themselves casting it like during a trance with Bahamut's Akh Morn/Deathflare, but it's worth taking note of.

RE: Blue Magic - Warren Castille - 01-09-2017

I know that some people have dabbled with copying a creature's aether to utilize their attacks and abilities. It's reasonable enough in the setting. That said? You risk having your concept exploded or otherwise meddled with in the event BLU happens canonically. XIV has already proven they don't mind sticking iconic jobs behind exclusive lore (think Dragoons and Dark Knights being so intrinsic to Ishgard's culture, or White Magic/Black Magic being so hamstrung with limitations on who can use them) and there's a greater-than-zero chance that your character could suddenly find itself being impossible (or just highly improbable).

Like others have mentioned, sit tight for now! We'll know in February what other job we'll be getting and you might not have to make it up.

RE: Blue Magic - Stacesune - 01-09-2017

(01-09-2017, 01:41 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I know that some people have dabbled with copying a creature's aether to utilize their attacks and abilities. It's reasonable enough in the setting. That said? You risk having your concept exploded or otherwise meddled with in the event BLU happens canonically. XIV has already proven they don't mind sticking iconic jobs behind exclusive lore (think Dragoons and Dark Knights being so intrinsic to Ishgard's culture, or White Magic/Black Magic being so hamstrung with limitations on who can use them) and there's a greater-than-zero chance that your character could suddenly find itself being impossible (or just highly improbable).

Like others have mentioned, sit tight for now! We'll know in February what other job we'll be getting and you might not have to make it up.

being the impatient bastard I am, I'll probably work on it then if BLU comes out just do a quick change of things as I doubt I'll get too deep that I can't retcon a little bit if it DOES come out next month.

RE: Blue Magic - Alderique - 01-10-2017

(01-09-2017, 11:07 PM)Stacesune Wrote:
(01-09-2017, 01:41 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I know that some people have dabbled with copying a creature's aether to utilize their attacks and abilities. It's reasonable enough in the setting. That said? You risk having your concept exploded or otherwise meddled with in the event BLU happens canonically. XIV has already proven they don't mind sticking iconic jobs behind exclusive lore (think Dragoons and Dark Knights being so intrinsic to Ishgard's culture, or White Magic/Black Magic being so hamstrung with limitations on who can use them) and there's a greater-than-zero chance that your character could suddenly find itself being impossible (or just highly improbable).

Like others have mentioned, sit tight for now! We'll know in February what other job we'll be getting and you might not have to make it up.

being the impatient bastard I am, I'll probably work on it then if BLU comes out just do a quick change of things as I doubt I'll get too deep that I can't retcon a little bit if it DOES come out next month.

Yeah, I think this is a good approach! Start toying with the idea and building your character, but be flexible in case they do reveal it, since we don't know the lore fluff of how it would work. In the event it DOESN'T come out, you'll have some ideas and direction to work with.

RE: Blue Magic - sersi - 01-10-2017

[Image: 060216.png]

RE: Blue Magic - Stacesune - 01-10-2017

Gosh Darnit Sersi xD

RE: Blue Magic - sersi - 01-10-2017

who, me? *gives innocent puppy eyes*

RE: Blue Magic - Deacon - 01-17-2017

Even if BLU doesn't come in 4.0 (I'm personally praying so fervently for Geomancer that I may accidentally summon a primal!), I think the Allagan-tech might be the best way to go RP-wise for Blue Magic.  The practical execution has already been well-expressed vis a vis SMN Egis, but even a non-SMN RP trope could work given Allagan history.

The Ultima isn't exactly Blue Magic, but Allagan magitech-esque workings could easily be the bridge/key to Blue Magic.  Garleans may have taken this and with a Sharlayan style magic study of Garlean tech, it could be where we see Blue Mages finally showing up in-game.  But the WoL/Eorzean adventurer could easily stumble upon Allagan/Ultima esque tech that supplements his/her magic abilities to absorb and redeploy enemy magics.  

This makes more sense the farther you progress in the storylines with these access points of intense interaction with Allagan tech like the Crystal Tower and even more importantly Azys Lla.  Not to mention that the accumulation of Allagan tomestones of philosophy, lore, esoteric, even mythology could easily be used RP-wise as a way to either inundate your character with Allagan absorption-tech or used as a catalyst to capture and redeploy.  My personal RP-take would be to have my character hold a cache of Allagan tombstones that are independently used to capture enemy magic and redeploy through the tombstone until such a time as the character can sufficiently lean to absorb that power into himself (i.e., introduction of Blue Mage class itself, or find a suitable NPC trainer to commandeer ala Matoya)

RE: Blue Magic - Valence - 01-17-2017

Allagan and Magitek are hardly correlated, or not as much as we would like to think. While it's true that the discovery of Allagan tech by the late emperor made is so that the Garlemald Republic suddenly made huge technological leaps, and that we see old allagan constructs like the Death Claws being revived and put back in business, we have to keep in mind that Garleans actually proved unable to understand the underlying principles of any allagan tech they stumbled upon.

The invention of Magitek is of their own doing and fueled by the apparition of the ceruleum engine, and ceruleum is a way cruder energy source than what the Allagans were capable of. Most of the allagan tech actually revolved around advanced circuitry, AI, and aetherochemical energy (the core of their tech, which hints at an understanding of the underlying physical principles behind aether itself, turned as a chemistry of sort).

It's like comparing fossil fuel to the power of the atom (or even more advanced physics you fancy).