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+--- Thread: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) (/showthread.php?tid=18808)
Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - lalabells - 03-10-2017
I'm currently trying to figure out a good backstory / job that could fit for my lalafell, with her potentionally being a traveler / aspiring weaver. As I pondered over the choices I kept wondering over Weavers and their place in Ul'dah and elsewhere. I know Weavers can potentially enjoy a lot of luxuries assuming their craft is successful, but how are they treated outside of Ul'Dah?
Better yet, how is fashion ( glamours are optional ) treated in Eorzea's society? Are there middle-class or even lower class citizens who indulge in it?
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Amnesic - 03-10-2017
I can't give too much advice, but I would think Weavers would be generally respected/wanted anywhere where people treasure fashionable clothing or where repairs are needed. Generally, there's rich people in any city that you could easily link up with if you have a certain level of finesse. If you are relatively good at repairs, anywhere there's working people you can get some respect repairing their clothing well.
With fashion in Eorzea, I figure that there will likely be people from any class who will indulge it either to look better than others, appear higher in social status than they are, or merely because they like the looks. Appearing higher in society seems to be a generally more common thing among people; the "being at the top makes life easier, why wouldn't you want to be there" kind of mentality exists.
On the terms of glamour, I figure it's something that the higher-class indulge in, but I'm willing to believe middle-class who are insecure in their appearance might go for it as well.
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Aya - 03-10-2017
I don't think you'd be off-the-mark at all to take on any sort of fashion or glamour! I know that quite a few weavers take this approach, and I absolutely love it. Its not much of a stretch to imagine a fashion world that is not unlike our own, though on a much smaller scale
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Parvacake - 03-11-2017
I think it can be utilized for all social classes though I imagine the lower class/refugees may have a much harder struggle. In the starting MSQ for Ul'dah you see a refugee who struggles to even pay for a decent cut of meat for her and her family!
Perhaps your lala strives to make affordable fashion for the lower classes? Traveling around finding new ideas and bits of inspiration to utilize?
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Nako Vesh - 03-12-2017
Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe glamours fall on the side of magic rather than the physical act of crafting garments. Garment making encompasses many, many different possible career paths for your RP. You could specialize in making certain types of material, patterns, menswear, womenswear, childrenswear, accessories, tailoring, alterations, embroidery, knitting, crochet, etc. The list could go on for days, and with glamours there's likely an aetheric specialization to consider.
From what I remember there isn't a ton of word on fashion in the other two city-states. Limsa and Gridania seem to view clothing in a more utilitarian mindset than Ul'dah, but that isn't to say there wouldn't be a market for it.
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - LiadansWhisper - 03-12-2017
I believe Glamours are magic, yes. But fashion itself? Everyone wants to be fashionable.
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Nebbs - 03-12-2017
I think you can pitch the success level where you like and probably get some RP back-story in there too.
Such as:
I had a job as an intern with a famous fashion designer. Every thing was nice until they then showcased my designs as their own. Apparently they have been doing this to young designers for years.
I took a job with some shady sorts and ended up chained to a bench repairing old military outfits that were then sold on. I managed to escape when the place was raided.
I spent a nice summer recovering from an illness in a little out of the way village. I pitched in to help with their summer festivities by creating a summer look for them from what they had. All donated scraps of cloth and old clothing and Ia small number of the ladies and I fashioned the summer costumes. It was one of the best summers I have had.
I once made a fire robe for a mage. I had to make a special thread that he enchanted, and then as I wove the cloth he bound fire elemental magic into it. I lost three looms and had blisters for weeks following that little job. Still he paid me well for the trouble.
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Shuck - 03-12-2017
I've got a question here.
Why would someone aspiring to be a weaver travel anywhere but to and from their master's shop? Given the state of things in Eorzea, it's safe to assume that apprenticeship is the primary method of education.
What are they roaming around for? What can't they learn in the shop?
I mean, I also see this assumption that the working class (the majority of any population) wants appearance first, and function second. Which...I mean, that's just not even kind of true. Things can look good and be functional, but first, your broadest client base in this pre-industrial society is going to need this stuff to work first, then last real long, and finally, if it could look good as a bonus, that would be sweet.
Just stuff to consider.
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Amnesic - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 06:41 PM)Shuck Wrote: I've got a question here.
Why would someone aspiring to be a weaver travel anywhere but to and from their master's shop? Given the state of things in Eorzea, it's safe to assume that apprenticeship is the primary method of education.
What are they roaming around for? What can't they learn in the shop?
I mean, I also see this assumption that the working class (the majority of any population) wants appearance first, and function second. Which...I mean, that's just not even kind of true. Things can look good and be functional, but first, your broadest client base in this pre-industrial society is going to need this stuff to work first, then last real long, and finally, if it could look good as a bonus, that would be sweet.
Just stuff to consider.
Well in defense of traveling, there are a few reasons one might begin to travel.
First, they never may have had a master, they just taught themselves and they like it that way.
Second, there's a chance you might have found your master unlikable or incompatible with you as a student. No use sticking around then, just use what you've got and go from there.
Third, (falls under second, somewhat) maybe you just wanted to show off your talents and you felt expressively stunted in the workshop by your master, or that training just wasn't doing anything for you and desire to flex your imagination with the weaving.
Fourth, money. It's not likely you'll be earning much money, if at all in a workshop with a master. Money tends to drive trade as it is essential to survival in an economy; if you can't get work and as result, sustenance, you either have to change or move on somewhere else.
On the term of functionality versus fashion, there will be people at every level trying to be fashionable (entertainers, especially), but I do agree here being a person who opts for functionality rather than style in real life, the lower classes of society are more likely to spend on durable things and fashion is merely a bonus.
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Shuck - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 09:13 PM)Amnesic Wrote: Well in defense of traveling, there are a few reasons one might begin to travel.
I mean, there's no need for a defense, but ok, let's talk about this.
(03-12-2017, 09:13 PM)Amnesic Wrote: First, they never may have had a master, they just taught themselves and they like it that way.
Sure, fine. That doesn't make traveling viable in order to ply a trade that would likely find you mending things and charging people. Then comes the issue of supplies not only for your trade, but for moving from spot to spot, which brings us to...
(03-12-2017, 09:13 PM)Amnesic Wrote: Fourth, money. It's not likely you'll be earning much money, if at all in a workshop with a master. Money tends to drive trade as it is essential to survival in an economy; if you can't get work and as result, sustenance, you either have to change or move on somewhere else.
Yeah, no. See, if money is a problem, then so is food. Food is something you need to travel. So is shelter, and protection, particularly given that it's a pre-industrial society. If we're paying fare to someone to ferry you from spot to spot, where's that money coming from? How much are you producing in order to cover these expenses? Where are you producing your products? Are you just stitching this shit in an alleyway, or by the side of the road, or what?
A workshop provides a central location to keep necessary materials (rolls of fabric are kind of heavy, so are looms, spinning wheels are cumbersome, you get the idea) out of the elements/unstolen. A master's name provides your claim to being capable of fixing people's shit/producing new things much needed legitimacy.
If some grubby dude staggered up to you on the road, with a backpack full of random fabric, then waved a rusty needle at you and said "Lemme make you a dress, sweetheart", would you take him up on the offer?
If you would, you're far, far more brave than the rank-and-file citizen.
(03-12-2017, 09:13 PM)Amnesic Wrote: Second, there's a chance you might have found your master unlikable or incompatible with you as a student. No use sticking around then, just use what you've got and go from there.
Third, (falls under second, somewhat) maybe you just wanted to show off your talents and you felt expressively stunted in the workshop by your master, or that training just wasn't doing anything for you and desire to flex your imagination with the weaving.
These stand up. The latter...somewhat less. Like...where are you going, fam? Who's gonna let you just show up, and show shit off? Who're you gonna show it to?
Looking for someone to teach you new shit is a good angle, though. Go with that, OP. Be like "If I have to stitch one more pair of plain, beige slacks, I'm gonna save up, buy a gun, and blow my fucking brains out all over the shop floor. BBL, turds. Gonna go find out what color is."
(03-12-2017, 09:13 PM)Amnesic Wrote: On the term of functionality versus fashion, there will be people at every level trying to be fashionable (entertainers, especially), but I do agree here being a person who opts for functionality rather than style in real life, the lower classes of society are more likely to spend on durable things and fashion is merely a bonus.
Yeah, of course they'll be looking to be fashionable, but "want to" and "actually capable of affording to" are two different things. Even then, fancy shit tends to be like a one-time purchase, and unless you're Eorzea's first car salesman, or real-estate agent, you're not making a living off one-time purchases.
Name'a that game is volume if you're not some well-to-do jerk's personal tailor, feel me?
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Nako Vesh - 03-13-2017
(03-12-2017, 10:45 PM)Shuck Wrote: If some grubby dude staggered up to you on the road, with a backpack full of random fabric, then waved a rusty needle at you and said "Lemme make you a dress, sweetheart", would you take him up on the offer?
If you would, you're far, far more brave than the rank-and-file citizen.
Uh, maybe this is just me, but I'd enjoy the hell out of a character like that!
Aaaaand I really want to launch into a lecture about fashion here because it's something I'm really passionate about, and I see some misunderstanding here... but it would be veering a bit off topic and I might as well spare you all The Devil Wears Prada monologue. I'll just say that you don't have to grind out every gritty piece of realism here for your RP concept here. People of any echelon of society travel for their art all the time anyway. It's really no different from being a bard... You just might have to carry around a bit more junk. Like scissors and needles!
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Valence - 03-13-2017
(03-12-2017, 06:41 PM)Shuck Wrote: I've got a question here.
Why would someone aspiring to be a weaver travel anywhere but to and from their master's shop? Given the state of things in Eorzea, it's safe to assume that apprenticeship is the primary method of education.
What are they roaming around for? What can't they learn in the shop?
I mean, I also see this assumption that the working class (the majority of any population) wants appearance first, and function second. Which...I mean, that's just not even kind of true. Things can look good and be functional, but first, your broadest client base in this pre-industrial society is going to need this stuff to work first, then last real long, and finally, if it could look good as a bonus, that would be sweet.
Just stuff to consider.
I would tend to agree with your points there.
I think though that there is one thing that can validate travel for craftsmen, and it is companionship, something that almost all apprentice craftsmen used to do centuries ago where you learned your craft by going from workshop to workshop during years unti' you made a good tour of the country.
Of course it only works for apprentices.
RE: Weavers ( and fashion in general. ) - Skae - 03-13-2017
(03-13-2017, 03:47 AM)Valence Wrote:(03-12-2017, 06:41 PM)Shuck Wrote: I've got a question here.
Why would someone aspiring to be a weaver travel anywhere but to and from their master's shop? Given the state of things in Eorzea, it's safe to assume that apprenticeship is the primary method of education.
What are they roaming around for? What can't they learn in the shop?
I mean, I also see this assumption that the working class (the majority of any population) wants appearance first, and function second. Which...I mean, that's just not even kind of true. Things can look good and be functional, but first, your broadest client base in this pre-industrial society is going to need this stuff to work first, then last real long, and finally, if it could look good as a bonus, that would be sweet.
Just stuff to consider.
I would tend to agree with your points there.
I think though that there is one thing that can validate travel for craftsmen, and it is companionship, something that almost all apprentice craftsmen used to do centuries ago where you learned your craft by going from workshop to workshop during years unti' you made a good tour of the country.
Of course it only works for apprentices.
Former apprentices actually. That rank was called journeyman - a person who had finished his apprenticeship but was not yet a master. And in many parts of Europe journeymen did indeed normally travel around quite a bit.