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+--- Thread: [Discussion] Some Mateus Observations (/showthread.php?tid=19623)
Some Mateus Observations - Momo - 06-04-2017
Let me preface by saying a couple things in case they aren't clear:
1) I support creating a new second RP server.
2) I think our main focus should be the official designation of an RP server/
3) I recognize the splintering and chaotic nature of the RP community as a whole, and understand that the opinions of one person to the next may vary widely even in similar groups.
With all that being said, from my first experience, and the second hand experiences of others, I have come to see there is a problem on Mateus as a second community. Either before the lock of Balmung, or sometimes just after it, RPers from Balmung's community ventured onto Mateus to create new groups. Some of these RPers were new, some old, some just ready for a new adventure knowing that a new adventure was needed because of the lock, and then it seems to me there must also have been some of Balmung's outcasts.
When I say outcasts, I don't mean thrown out by the community, but rather those who have bad experiences here, either once or on more than on occasion, and decided not only that they didn't like it here, but also that the community as a whole were all the same: terrible, rude, mean people who aren't out to RP but rather to ostracize. As a Balmung native, and someone who has RPed here since 1.0 (basically since it wasn't Balmung back then of course), I know this not to be true for the most part, and also to not take the community on RPC as rule of law for general RPers in our community.
I wouldn't have even brought this up were it not for experiencing these folks within the first hour of being on Mateus, and directly in main chat. I think Balmung was brought up innocuously on some subject, and more than one person expressed that they "don't like Balmung, and maybe Balmung RPers shouldn't be welcome here". Naturally this event caused many who are native Balmung RPers to react not so well, considering that much of Mateus will soon be made up of Balmung it didn't make a lot of sense to have this attitude.
After that event I sort of shrugged it off, the LS leaders quieted the rhetoric and we moved on, though I certainly felt less welcome and only logged on maybe a couple more times and then not at all on that character after the incident, realizing that my fire for the server kinda died after that at least for now. That was a couple weeks ago now, and though I haven't touched back with the community there, I have been hearing from others who have dug themselves into this community a little more, that they have experienced much the same and more than once on the Discord server this time.
The above are just a few experiences from those who are trying to move onto Mateus from Balmung, but aren't feeling welcome. I guess I was hoping that more opinions on this could be shared, more experiences good or bad, so we can get some of this bad blood out of the system at least in this corner of the world, and move onto to having Mateus be a possible place of future great RP.
*Mod edit: This thread's title has been altered.Â
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - foxfirestorm - 06-04-2017
That title is slightly misleading, just going to say that up front. There is no wicked origin, nor is there any wicked attempts either. When I started this building process I had several characters on Balmung and, to be clear, my original home was Besaid, which yes, became Balmung.
My reasons for doing what I did, what I started, was because I saw the flashing yellow light going "Warning! Balmung is reaching mass critical levels! Find a means to help it!" And that is what started this.
While I can not speak for Mateus as a whole, nor will I, and I do thank you for your kind words at the end, but I like to remind that Rome isn't built in a day. We are going to have rough seas, massive storms, and possible clashes. That is life. That is the pains of a community growing.
It is HOW people handle this, that defines not only the community, but we, as roleplayers, together. No place is paradise. There is always a dark corner and cynical people. I also will not deny that there has been some vocal minority voicing their dislike for somethings. I hate to see this, but again, that is people. There will always be the vocal minority, versus the silent majority.
Do I think that silent majority should speak up more? Yes. Will they? Probably not.
I also can't blame some of the folks snarling a bit, as they got hit by some of the toxic side and given the small town nature they are use to, they didn't know how to handle the city folk slang. Did it make it right for them to lash back? No. It doesn't-- but again people-- and we all carry on. We all move on.
In order to BUILD a better community, we HAVE to, together, get past these rough points. We have to strive for something greater. When someone gives you hell and you don't like it, turn the other cheek and walk on. Eventually things will iron themselves out. Eventually, it will get better, but it takes a community effort to make things BETTER. To make it a brighter, healthier, future for everyone.
This whole I vs them mentality needs to stop. We have to remember what we are all trying to do at the end of the day and use that to motivate ourselves. Hell, there are days I don't want to log in here, Discord, or even 14 because of all the stress I've been dealing with from the toxic, loud minority on all sides-- But you know what keeps me marching on?
The silent majority. The ones who DM message me from Balmung, Siren, even Mateus and thank me for all the work we are doing. Thanking /US/ for breathing life into such a low pop-server that it couldn't even defeat a lvl 52 Odin several months ago and a few days ago, people chopped Odin down in a snap.
Anyways, long story short--
Yes, we have rough waters to ride. Yes we have storms to face. We have growing pains to deal with. But it is how we, as a community, handle these things, is what will break or make this place. I also don't mean "a community" as in "Mateus", but as a community of "Roleplayers". I have taken my hands pretty much off the reigns. Growth is happening and if you don't like something, we have enough people where folks can go branch off.
We also have the Hydaelyn forums, which can host information and events as well. We have the tools, we just as a community have to use them.
And so I leave that with a message I wrote to the RPC after a mess that broke out over a combat system style of all things-- and was poorly worded when placed up by someone who was just trying to help:
Also, I like to remind everyone. Things are not easy right now. We are not a governing body, we are a community. We are a community of roleplayes, all here to have fun and enjoy ourselves. Those in the moderating positions. In Co positions. We are people. Players. Individuals. We are here to assist, but we are not the all-knowing-government.
We also, as a community, have to remember. It isn't about Mateus, Siren, Fairy, Balmung, or whatever server you come from. It is about us, as a roleplay community. We are the beating heart of 14, we are in this all together. The segregation needs to stop, we get enough of that in real life, we don't need to have it on a video game of all things. A video game which we all enjoy and love. A community which we all enjoy and love.
Please keep things in perspective and remember what we are here to do. To have FUN. I love you guys and yes, things are rough right now, but remember these things and remember that we, as a growing community either in this linkshell or in the others we may go to, carry that growth with us. We are the guides to a tomorrow and the guides for a greater future.
Thank you.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Momo - 06-04-2017
You don't hold the reigns of the community, but you and the groups you helped create, do hold the reigns for the spaces that you created. Instead of encouraging this kind of vocal minority to continue, and not doing more than saying "Oh please stop" or a slap on the wrist, it is in the fragile first moments of growth that you take a certain stand and a possible ban from chats where the community is trying taking root. A simple: "That opinion is not welcome here, we want you be part of our community, but we don't want opinions that divide numbers as we try to come together and grow."
I understand as well as anyone, and support as much as anyone when I can, but I am not here to come and help with ideas and adding new things to a community that will be met with disdain because of where I came from, especially when it isn't a statement of "Well on Balmung we ____".
Let me say, I haven't actually given up on the community or anything that dramatic, but that doesn't mean I didn't feel a dramatic decrease in the fire to help build and create new opportunities, which is what I was trying to voice. You are correct in saying that Balmung is not a wicked origin (that was me being fiscisous), we have vocal minorities too, some right here on this site, but we are rooted, and a strong community which cannot be soured by a few voices except for those who don't care to listen, so that is the difference between our communities and the reason I brought this up.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - ArmachiA - 06-04-2017
I'm sure there is smack talk by exBalmung players over whatever drama they were a part of and still salty over, but I hope they know they are shooting themselves in the foot here by telling the only RP server right now that its members aren't welcome there. Maybe if there were more servers one could get away with disparaging remarks toward a server but Mateus needs Balmungs support if it wants a chance to survive.
I still support Mateus because a few Salty Susans shouldn't ruin the effort trying to be made here, but they should know they are only hurting themselves.
Also, I saw someone make those remarks about how "Balmung wasn't welcome." On the official forums and someone actually DID step in and told them to cut that shit out.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Luna Sona - 06-04-2017
I think everyone else has said anything that needs to be said, but you do seem a bit biased and dramatic. "Wicked origin" is quite melodramatic. You also said you haven't quit the server or anything dramatic, but in the original post say you haven't logged on to the server in weeks. I do understand it sucks to feel ostracized but the way you wrote this post seems a tad extra.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Momo - 06-04-2017
(06-04-2017, 02:13 PM)Luna Sona Wrote: I think everyone else has said anything that needs to be said, but you do seem a bit biased and dramatic. "Wicked origin" is quite melodramatic. You also said you haven't quit the server or anything dramatic, but in the original post say you haven't logged on to the server in weeks. I do understand it sucks to feel ostracized but the way you wrote this post seems a tad extra.
I haven't logged in, or made much of an effort to, in part because I would have needed that fire I lost to do so during a pre-expansion push to get things done on my main on Balmung. After the expansion is in full swing, I may have more down time to go back to it, but that also hasn't stopped me from getting word from people who are still there and receiving this kind of treatment.
Also: I'm an RPer, there are few things even in real life that don't sound melodramatic when they come out. It isn't intentionally extra, in the words of Nina Bonina zos Galvus Brown: "Sue me".
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Luna Sona - 06-04-2017
(06-04-2017, 02:21 PM)Momo Wrote:(06-04-2017, 02:13 PM)Luna Sona Wrote: I think everyone else has said anything that needs to be said, but you do seem a bit biased and dramatic. "Wicked origin" is quite melodramatic. You also said you haven't quit the server or anything dramatic, but in the original post say you haven't logged on to the server in weeks. I do understand it sucks to feel ostracized but the way you wrote this post seems a tad extra.
I haven't logged in, or made much of an effort to, in part because I would have needed that fire I lost to do so during a pre-expansion push to get things done on my main on Balmung. After the expansion is in full swing, I may have more down time to go back to it, but that also hasn't stopped me from getting word from people who are still there and receiving this kind of treatment.
Also: I'm an RPer, there are few things even in real life that don't sound melodramatic when they come out. It isn't intentionally extra, in the words of Nina Bonina zos Galvus Brown: "Sue me".
I'm not sure being a RPer has anything to do with it, seems more like a personality thing, but okay. If you want honest, productive discussion titles like that seem click-baity and hostile.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Greenley - 06-04-2017
(06-04-2017, 01:34 PM)foxfirestorm Wrote: Do I think that silent majority should speak up more? Yes. Will they? Probably not.
I'm going to express some concern I have with this. I was there silently browsing during the text fight rules "drama" and while it got a bit heated, people weren't name calling, they weren't making threats that I saw (do correct me if I'm wrong as I was working at the time and my attention was divided). The chat was still silenced until people were allegedly "calmed down" and any further discussion seemed to me to be discouraged.Â
By the very nature of Text Tone, any time people disagree it is going to read as heated. Seeing the chat locked down because people are debating -- or hell, even harmlessly bickering -- doesn't exactly make me want to waste my time speaking up when someone slams Balmung or for any other reason, because I have no desire to be wrist-slapped and silenced like I'm part of a kindergarten classroom.Â
To note, I'm new, not from Balmung. I have no dog in this fight beyond the fact I want to be part if a community and I don't want it to be toxic. I am very willing to contribute to that mindset but not if it means having a finger waved at me for making things "tense."
I don't think it's fair to judge us (general us) for being silent and then when we aren't, to silence us because the way we debate doesn't fit the mold of a one or two or three people's idea of what a "calm" debate entails.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Momo - 06-04-2017
(06-04-2017, 02:27 PM)Luna Sona Wrote:(06-04-2017, 02:21 PM)Momo Wrote:(06-04-2017, 02:13 PM)Luna Sona Wrote: I think everyone else has said anything that needs to be said, but you do seem a bit biased and dramatic. "Wicked origin" is quite melodramatic. You also said you haven't quit the server or anything dramatic, but in the original post say you haven't logged on to the server in weeks. I do understand it sucks to feel ostracized but the way you wrote this post seems a tad extra.
I haven't logged in, or made much of an effort to, in part because I would have needed that fire I lost to do so during a pre-expansion push to get things done on my main on Balmung. After the expansion is in full swing, I may have more down time to go back to it, but that also hasn't stopped me from getting word from people who are still there and receiving this kind of treatment.
Also: I'm an RPer, there are few things even in real life that don't sound melodramatic when they come out. It isn't intentionally extra, in the words of Nina Bonina zos Galvus Brown: "Sue me".
I'm not sure being a RPer has anything to do with it, seems more like a personality thing, but okay. If you want honest, productive discussion titles like that seem click-baity and hostile.
Are you feeling attacked because you think what I said may be true? I am not ruining the community on Mateus, I am making sure it is clear that there is a problem and it can't just be ignored and hope it goes away type of attitude. You don't know me, and you likely haven't met me or my characters before, so your judgement of my character isn't all that important to me, and you may be a nice RPer and person which I would be happy to believe if you claimed. I can be dramatic to get people to click on something, but if you read the actual content, it is no more than that, a dramatic title.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-04-2017
Kinda off-topic, but it's important to note there are two main Mateus discord groups.
1) Mateus RP Hub - not supposed to be moderated - server-wise use. ( https://discord.gg/HPbYNFU )
This is personally where I've seen more stuff going on. (And by that, I mean heated discussion or anti-Balmung/new people sentiments/etc). ...which, is kinda expected of what's being called an unmoderated server. But then it needs to stay unmoderated if it's gonna be advertised as such.
I'm sorta (ok, really adverse) to seeing server-wide "rules", "preferred methods", or "required conventions" here.
2) the RPC of Mateus Roleplay Mateus (RPM), which is run by Foxfirestorm, and is moderated. It started as a general hub, but is separate from the Mateus RP Hub.
I see this more like the OOC Linkshells we have here on the site. If they want their own rules/conventions, I think that's fair, just as many of the Linkshells and Free Companies already do so here.
--
What I do feel like we need to see more of is non-general group Linkshells and Free Companies. (These have been increasing, which is good!)
Just like how I don't expect every FFXIV RPer to use the RPC forums/wiki, I don't expect all the people on a particular server to be grouped up or even want to group up. Differing opinions usually means a healthy community. A server-wide hub can be dangerous when it hits a point that it stops being a small homogenous community. Rules and conventions beyond "don't metagame, don't powergame/godmod, don't be rude OOC" cannot be expected to be followed once a community reaches this point.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Luna Sona - 06-04-2017
(06-04-2017, 02:44 PM)Momo Wrote:I'm not really feeling attacked. I have no ties or personal feelings towards Mateus or Balmung. I never said you're ruining the community on Mateus so I'm not sure where that's coming from. No, I don't know you, that's correct. I've seen your posts in here and the other thread about keeping RP only on Balmung and you don't seem terribly interested in fostering a community on Mateus. I read the actual content, that's why I referenced you saying you hadn't logged onto the server in weeks. How you wrote the original post doesn't exactly come across as, "Let's help other people feel welcome on Mateus."(06-04-2017, 02:27 PM)Luna Sona Wrote:(06-04-2017, 02:21 PM)Momo Wrote:(06-04-2017, 02:13 PM)Luna Sona Wrote: I think everyone else has said anything that needs to be said, but you do seem a bit biased and dramatic. "Wicked origin" is quite melodramatic. You also said you haven't quit the server or anything dramatic, but in the original post say you haven't logged on to the server in weeks. I do understand it sucks to feel ostracized but the way you wrote this post seems a tad extra.
I haven't logged in, or made much of an effort to, in part because I would have needed that fire I lost to do so during a pre-expansion push to get things done on my main on Balmung. After the expansion is in full swing, I may have more down time to go back to it, but that also hasn't stopped me from getting word from people who are still there and receiving this kind of treatment.
Also: I'm an RPer, there are few things even in real life that don't sound melodramatic when they come out. It isn't intentionally extra, in the words of Nina Bonina zos Galvus Brown: "Sue me".
I'm not sure being a RPer has anything to do with it, seems more like a personality thing, but okay. If you want honest, productive discussion titles like that seem click-baity and hostile.
Are you feeling attack because you think what I said may be true? I am not ruining the community on Mateus, I am making sure it is clear that there is a problem and it can't just be ignored and hope it goes away type of attitude. You don't know me, and you likely haven't met me or my characters before, so your judgement of my character isn't all that important to me, and you may be a nice RPer and person which I would be happy to believe if you claimed. I can be dramatic to get people to click on something, but if you read the actual content, it is no more than that, a dramatic title.
I just thinking having a weird title such as "Wicked Origin" is a little silly, and I don't think it has anything to do with being a RPer. It just catches people's attention.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Greenley - 06-04-2017
(06-04-2017, 02:47 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Kinda off-topic, but it's important to note there are two main Mateus discord groups.
I wasn't aware of this, so thanks for clearing that up. For clarity to my post I'm referring to the Mateus RP Hub and have no experience with the other. I apologize to Foxfire if he has nothing to do with that chat and/or the moderating of said chat.Â
I stand by the point I was making, however: If people are to speak up they must be allowed to without tiptoeing across eggshells sprinkled across a field of LEGO. To mute constructive criticism and respond "Well we're not Balmung so stfu lulz" without counterargument benefits no one in the long run except the people who want the server to just be them and their small group of friends. And if that's the case they have no place running a server-wide Discord.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Kylin - 06-04-2017
I've seen the small 'anti-Balmung' snark on occasion as well, so I completely understand the concern that stems from this thread and the other larger thread. It's even more daunting when said snark can be seen from moderation staff of the Mateus discord channel, even if the snark was unintentional.
I do think there is going to be minor pushback to the sudden and quick change that's happening on Mateus. Things are moving super fast, and the deluge of 'immigrants' from Balmung and elsewhere can be frightening to some. So it's understandable for some to be ambivalent over this. That said, I do think those who 'pushback' are very much in an extreme minority. In addition, they're going to put only themselves in a very poor predicament if they don't either get on board the train, or at least get out of its way. A handful of RPers can't stifle hoards of RPers and different styles after all, and will only discredit themselves if they try.
I think there are two trains of thoughts going on right now on both sides of the aisle. On one side, there are members of the Mateus 'old guard' who may feel like their way of life is being threatened and that they have more rights/powers than the immigrants coming in. On the other hand, you have some immigrants who may give off the impression (perhaps unintentionally) that they deserve special treatment because they've been displaced by no fault of their own. Again, both of these attitudes are extreme minorities, but still have enough power to stir the pot in such a precarious situation.
I believe everyone needs to quickly come to terms with one thing. It doesn't matter why/when/how you came to Mateus. Old guard, new guard, alts, etc... If someone joins a community, they're part of that community. This goes for any server community. End of story. If anyone doesn't like the sudden explosion in the community size from the small little village that it once was, that's what FCs/linkshells are for. They can easily make their own sub-community, build a wall around it if they feel the need, and carry on like nothing is happening. The deluge isn't going to be stopped by anyone at this point (unless SE pulls a fast one).
I can't pretend to speak for anyone in Mateus, let alone all of them. I can, however speak for my FC. We will absolutely not tolerate Balmung hate rhetoric of any sort. My origins are with Balmung, and I still to this day see it as one of my 'babies' (even if it is now a grown adult capable of taking care of itself). I only left it because I don't really have anyone left there I'd consider 'friends,' just a ton of distant acquaintances who have all moved on with their lives. The massive size of Balmung just made it difficult for me to find other groups to jive with, that's all. So I absolutely have no qualms speaking up if I'm around when/if anti-Balmung rhetoric crops up. In fact, I attempted to say a few things during that little explosion on discord but got cut off (twice) when the chat got locked down.
Also, pre-expansion lulls are usually the time that drama is more prone to erupting. So I kinda blame that on some of the tension too >.>;. Ultimately, I think the growing pain will subside within the next month or so.
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-04-2017
(06-04-2017, 03:05 PM)Greenley Wrote:(06-04-2017, 02:47 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Kinda off-topic, but it's important to note there are two main Mateus discord groups.
I wasn't aware of this, so thanks for clearing that up. For clarity to my post I'm referring to the Mateus RP Hub and have no experience with the other. I apologize to Foxfire if he has nothing to do with that chat and/or the moderating of said chat.Â
That's why I brought it up! Both groups have a lot of overlap since RPC Mateus RPM came before Mateus RP Hub. I think the person administrating both servers might be the same, but the use for each server may need to be more solidly defined for members in both!
RE: Balmung: Mateus's Wicked Origin - Virella - 06-04-2017
Luna, you're exactly the issue what the OP is talking about. I'm not sure if you're willing to see this, or just completely and utterly ignorant to the fact what you're doing. You're just creating unnecessary hostility.