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+--- Thread: [Discussion] Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. (/showthread.php?tid=20448)
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Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Arashin Kujqai - 08-26-2017
I know there's been talk about how to handle introvert characters or how to describe specifics of a character that are minor in detail but I was curious about two in particular areas that have always given me a "huh..." moment.
The first being, how do you explain your weapons when you carry them (assuming you do). Some of which seem overly large or aren't truly connected to anything. Best example I can think of is having an axe on your back but you're shirtless(so no straps or anything to latch it onto). Assuming it's relevant to your character, do you emote or mention it every session or etc? Or do you just leave it on your back and hope people assume you have an invisible strap around you?
The other is more or less similar to the often introvert questions but I was still curious regardless. How do you RP a.. "mean" character? I mean, being shy, introvert, or openly blunt is one thing, but what about a character that is an introvert but also an aggressive asshat? I know it's common to keep in mind that you =/= your character but I wondered how comfortable people will be to start a session with someone so quiet and then when they do walkup, they get aggressive IC treatment. It feels like a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" kinda deal. You finally get someone to walkup but you fear of putting them off from how the character naturally is. Thoughts?
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Yandros - 08-26-2017
Planning. Â Lots and lots of planning. Â Open OOC communication, and more planning.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Hutarin - 08-26-2017
Being an archer, D'lyhhia carries her bow slung across her chest from her shoulder. Her quiver also hangs from her shoulder, but off her back. It wouldn't be the best way to carry it in real life, in fact I shudder at thinking about all the rubbing the string might endure from her walking, but whatever its a game and I tend to wave that. As for mentioning it? I don't always unless its brought up or if she's interacting with it.
I currently don't play any "mean" characters, so don't really have an input, cept as Yandors said: OOC communication! Its a key when role-playing, especially when playing an asshole and/or villain.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Silmanos - 08-26-2017
I've had two characters that have used larger weapons, both a great sword and a lance. For both of them the respective characters always wore a harness or scabbard ((depending on blade)) across their back, though neither of them walked around shirtless. My current character's choice of weapons are a bit simpler. Emrys is normally seen with a grimoire which is attached by a strap to his belt, and for the occasional time he wears a blade it's in a scabbard attached to a sword belt. As for bringing it up in RP? It doesn't too much unless there is cause for it, such as putting the weapon away or drawing it. Every so often it gets mentioned outside of that, but that's due to either feeling threatened or being nervous.
In regards to the 'mean' character, they are indeed difficult. I will also echo the requirement of OOC communication, as it will play a big part here to make sure people don't mistake your intentions. My own character can be extremely stand offish and cold, you just have to handle things carefully and in a tasteful way. That said you should never feel like you have to break character at any point.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Teadrinker - 08-26-2017
(08-26-2017, 05:47 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: The first being, how do you explain your weapons when you carry them (assuming you do). Some of which seem overly large or aren't truly connected to anything. Best example I can think of is having an axe on your back but you're shirtless(so no straps or anything to latch it onto). Assuming it's relevant to your character, do you emote or mention it every session or etc? Or do you just leave it on your back and hope people assume you have an invisible strap around you?
I have never met a person who has needed that level of explanation to explain the game's graphics in RP in 3-4 years. There's usually a really understandable suspension of disbelief that "maybe a strap just isn't animated there."
TL;DR No explanation required.
(08-26-2017, 05:47 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: The other is more or less similar to the often introvert questions but I was still curious regardless. How do you RP a.. "mean" character? I mean, being shy, introvert, or openly blunt is one thing, but what about a character that is an introvert but also an aggressive asshat? I know it's common to keep in mind that you =/= your character but I wondered how comfortable people will be to start a session with someone so quiet and then when they do walkup, they get aggressive IC treatment. It feels like a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" kinda deal. You finally get someone to walkup but you fear of putting them off from how the character naturally is. Thoughts?
This is a subject that's been discussed a few times. Pretty much if your character is going to act standoffish and reject attempts at communication and make no attempts at communication then the lack of RP is the player's own fault.
A way around this is OOC communication. Your character is more than welcome to have this kind of personality as long as you're not relying on stranger walkups and things like that. Post a thread in making connections and try to plan a reason for both characters to run into each other that your character IS motivated to be a part of. This reason should exist. If it doesn't then it might be time to go back to the drawing board.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Arashin Kujqai - 08-27-2017
^ It was more implied to be with stranger walkups. I feel as though mentioning OOCly how a character is might metagame a little bit? Idk, like telling someone "Don't worry he's just grumpy" gives them some form of key to change around how the session goes based off that info alone.
As for the replies to the imaginary strap, I guess it doesn't need to be brought up unless it needs to... Otherwise, it floating over your back is awkward lol.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Firefly - 08-27-2017
(08-27-2017, 03:37 AM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: As for the replies to the imaginary strap, I guess it doesn't need to be brought up unless it needs to... Otherwise, it floating over your back is awkward lol.
Most, if not all weapons (save katanas) in the game have the same problem; just hanging off your belt with no scabbard.
The best way around this is to just RP and assume everyone having a scabbard/sheath for their hip-based weapons, and a carry strap for the larger weapons.
Alternatively, you can forgo the invisible backstraps and just RP your character carrying the things, which would technically be more realistic; but it's Final Fantasy, so I recommend the backstraps for convenience's sake/not having to emote that your character's literally walking around carrying a giant sword or polearm in their hands in civilian areas.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Teadrinker - 08-27-2017
(08-27-2017, 03:37 AM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: ^ It was more implied to be with stranger walkups. I feel as though mentioning OOCly how a character is might metagame a little bit? Idk, like telling someone "Don't worry he's just grumpy" gives them some form of key to change around how the session goes based off that info alone.
I'm of the mind that it's better for people to know what they're getting into. Communicating in general just prevents people from getting upset about something down the line that was easily addressed in the beginning. RPing a character like this is rife with pitfalls and I frankly don't suggest it unless you've got a thick skin and good communication skills.
Example: "Why didn't you tell me he just wasn't going to want to get to know anybody at all I wouldn't have wasted my time."
or
"Why didn't I know they had an inclination towards doing bad/evil to my character etc?"
I've had players place their characters behind a "try to get to know me" wall so thick that I gauged that it honestly wasn't going to be an interesting or rewarding use of my time to try and RP with them. Maybe someone else will be down for that kind of thing but it's usually not my cup of tea. Good thing for me and the other guy that I knew beforehand, eh?
The line between actually metagaming IC knowledge and just giving a player an OOC heads up that a character is a jerk is very thick and should be used to prevent issues. It's no more "metagame" than someone putting an alignment on a wiki. If I know a character is a truly evil/mean SOB I'm not gonna throw my cinnamon roll into their path if I have no interest in her getting squashed by them. It's just better for everyone if you put up the right signs to indicate these things so players do not engage in rp they don't ultimately want.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - ArmachiA - 08-27-2017
I got nothing for the weapon thing but, I have a friend who plays an asshole pretty well, at least as well as you can play one while still having people want to talk to you. First, he warns people about his characters attitude, as soon as his character smarts off he send a tell apologizing and explaining it not him (True, he's like one of the nicest people oocly).
Second, he lets the wall down a little more than those kind of people do oocly, in order to give a hook for another character to attach themselves to. People will ask, he'll make an asshole remark but he'll answer the question, unless it's too personal. Usually people end up asking "Why are you being an asshole?" his usual response is that he isn't being an asshole, that you're the one who came up to him and wanted to be all friendly for no reason. Watching from the outside, it seems to work remarkably well. He lets down the wall enough to continue a convo, to make people interested, but at the same time still maintains that snarky, lone wolf persona.
Third, his character isn't like that 100% of the time. In order for all characters to work, they need to feel real and complex and a lot of people who play assholes tend to play "anime" assholes, who just sit in a corner with their arms crossed making snarky remarks before rolling their eyes and walking away. This doesn't work. At all. No one is going to want to deal with that. Figure out why your character is so guarded, but also give them reasons not to be. Maybe they aren't as guarded when their drunk, or they actually do have empathy toward other people in bad situations. Making them have some kind of a heart sometimes goes a looonngg way in keeping characters interested in yours. For example, I had my character go to him to make him a special blend of tea. He was off-putting at first, until my character tripped and spilled it all over the floor. She thought he was going to yell, but instead he laughed and helped her clean it up. It was such a subversion of expectation, it added a lot of interesting depth to his character. It was their first meeting, and really cemented how they'd bond in the future.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Arashin Kujqai - 08-27-2017
(08-27-2017, 08:37 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: I got nothing for the weapon thing but, I have a friend who plays an asshole pretty well, at least as well as you can play one while still having people want to talk to you. First, he warns people about his characters attitude, as soon as his character smarts off he send a tell apologizing and explaining it not him (True, he's like one of the nicest people oocly).I guess I'm running into writer's block then. Part of me envisions how to act in some scenarios but I'm usually generally a nice person so when I think of situations like that... I kinda have difficulty imagining an appropriate response that doesn't come off as too heroic or nice. Definitely don't plan on having the edgy anime characterâ„¢ lol. More like menacingly intimidating and blunt but with honor.
Second, he lets the wall down a little more than those kind of people do oocly, in order to give a hook for another character to attach themselves to. People will ask, he'll make an asshole remark but he'll answer the question, unless it's too personal. Usually people end up asking "Why are you being an asshole?" his usual response is that he isn't being an asshole, that you're the one who came up to him and wanted to be all friendly for no reason. Watching from the outside, it seems to work remarkably well. He lets down the wall enough to continue a convo, to make people interested, but at the same time still maintains that snarky, lone wolf persona.
Third, his character isn't like that 100% of the time. In order for all characters to work, they need to feel real and complex and a lot of people who play assholes tend to play "anime" assholes, who just sit in a corner with their arms crossed making snarky remarks before rolling their eyes and walking away. This doesn't work. At all. No one is going to want to deal with that. Figure out why your character is so guarded, but also give them reasons not to be. Maybe they aren't as guarded when their drunk, or they actually do have empathy toward other people in bad situations. Making them have some kind of a heart sometimes goes a looonngg way in keeping characters interested in yours. For example, I had my character go to him to make him a special blend of tea. He was off-putting at first, until my character tripped and spilled it all over the floor. She thought he was going to yell, but instead he laughed and helped her clean it up. It was such a subversion of expectation, it added a lot of interesting depth to his character. It was their first meeting, and really cemented how they'd bond in the future.
Taking a bit of what Tea said, it seems like the best way to word it is just to generalize the personality but not be too specific about what they'll be dealing with.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Valence - 08-28-2017
Take it with a grain of salt of course, but when you try to play and portray a liar for example, it's usually better to be a good liar, or at least have enough confidence in what your character says that it will work perfectly fine. When you want to play a politician, it's usually best not to be too shabby at politics. Want to play a knowledgeable scholar and teacher? Better to know at least a bit of the lore you are trying to cover.
I think to play a grey or assholish character you have to firstly be very good at separating IC from OOC - and not just the usual way, you also have to enjoy seeing your character creating conflict, at least a bit, and if it's not your thing, well, it's okay - and secondly be able to portray a realistic one. I mean, I like creating conflict, but I also know my limits: if it starts painting my character in a corner or just make it look awful OOCly when she doesn't deserve it, I might start to not like it. So yeah, know your limits and all.
Ultimately I say, nothing better than a few trials perhaps? With friends and people you know at first, that you will have told beforehand? It's not because you aren't necessarily fit for a certain kind of role that you have to close yourself to it. I used to play relatively introverted characters before, or erudites, militants and whatnot. It was more or less safe territory to me. But it was also a reflection of some of the traits I had IRL, at least in part. I decided at some point to try other types of characters. I have tried an old mentor, I have also tried the scoundrel/rogue type (which I still more or less follow right now), which implies a decent amount of extroversion and a general outlawish outlook that generally runs counter to the righteous or true neutral archetypes I used before.
Well the short answer is, I couldn't have been able to tell if I could portray such characters faithfully or not before I tried. So I tried, and it worked out. I'm generally more or less confident in my skills (unlike my social abilities IRL which are kind of the opposite angst), so it's not too much of a problem for me, and I guess it can boil down a lot to that too.
It's also a normal thing that the first sequences you play for a new characters to be or feel sloppy. A new character will rarely fit like a glove at first.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Akeno Asukai - 08-29-2017
(08-26-2017, 05:47 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote:The first being, how do you explain your weapons when you carry them (assuming you do). Some of which seem overly large or aren't truly connected to anything. Best example I can think of is having an axe on your back but you're shirtless(so no straps or anything to latch it onto). Assuming it's relevant to your character, do you emote or mention it every session or etc? Or do you just leave it on your back and hope people assume you have an invisible strap around you?
For me personally this is a no-brainer: I will always assume a persons weapon has some for of attachment. For the example you used, I will ICly presume there are straps in place and will generally include them in an emote by way of "weapon strapped to one's back". It's vague and doesn't really state openly there's something across the person's chest or shoulders, but that the weapon is held on through some means -- I don't know if they're magical or not by looking at you, but since I rely on a degree of realism I presume there are straps.
     The same holds true for my own character, whose weapons are often times hidden beneath her overcoat/armor, when the placement of weapons becomes visible. However, I imagine this varies between people -- I know there are some who use aether/magic to keep their weapon attached. This leads to small, sometimes visible aura's around the weapon itself. I don't see it often, to be fair/honest.
Quote:The other is more or less similar to the often introvert questions but I was still curious regardless. How do you RP a.. "mean" character? I mean, being shy, introvert, or openly blunt is one thing, but what about a character that is an introvert but also an aggressive asshat? I know it's common to keep in mind that you =/= your character but I wondered how comfortable people will be to start a session with someone so quiet and then when they do walkup, they get aggressive IC treatment. It feels like a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" kinda deal. You finally get someone to walkup but you fear of putting them off from how the character naturally is. Thoughts?
I have had a few issues with some people who've taken my characters actions to heart, believing them to stem from a place outside of the environment. It can be quite frustrating when playing a character who is mean and you do have to rely on the understanding of others. Not everyone is overly joyed to interact with a character who is aggressive or mean-spirited.Â
     Take my lovely Hingashi Clan Lord, Akeno -- she's quite the bigot however, she understands that aligning herself with Eorzean sell-swords, strategists and researchers is necessary for the time being. This however, has made walk-up extremely difficult for me and I've managed to lead myself into several poor encounters (in which people become aggressive out of character, some even going so far as to question why anybody would want to interact with such a "horrible" character). Communication is definitely key and I often try to warn people, especially if the RP progresses to the point that her true nature is revealed. Unfortunately, in my case, there is not a lot of walk-up involved. Generally, RP for me comes from friends who know me out of character and have known me for quite some time.Â
TL;DR
Playing a mean-spirited character can be rough and a person may experience a drought in walk-ups. It simply varies from the type of aggression or bitterness they have. A caustic character can still be quite fun, especially in the right environment.
     Take my lovely Hingashi Clan Lord, Akeno -- she's quite the bigot however, she understands that aligning herself with Eorzean sell-swords, strategists and researchers is necessary for the time being. This however, has made walk-up extremely difficult for me and I've managed to lead myself into several poor encounters (in which people become aggressive out of character, some even going so far as to question why anybody would want to interact with such a "horrible" character). Communication is definitely key and I often try to warn people, especially if the RP progresses to the point that her true nature is revealed. Unfortunately, in my case, there is not a lot of walk-up involved. Generally, RP for me comes from friends who know me out of character and have known me for quite some time.Â
TL;DR
Playing a mean-spirited character can be rough and a person may experience a drought in walk-ups. It simply varies from the type of aggression or bitterness they have. A caustic character can still be quite fun, especially in the right environment.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Zhavi - 08-30-2017
Regarding asshole characters and not echoing the sentiments about ooc communication: use your surroundings.
Whenever someone showed up to rp with Zhi, I'd give them a reason other than her to stick around. NPCs, spilled drinks, a moral quandary, money, something related to their characters' interests. That way, even though they might be put off by Zhavi's behavior (and questioning whether I, as the player, really wanted to rp), there would be clear signs saying PLEASE STAY AND RP WITH ME OMG I WILL THROW ALL THE THINGS AT YOU IF YOU JUST STICK AROUND I PROMISE YOU'LL HAVE FUN.
And then if I doubted that they were actually having fun I might send a little check up ooc message -- "zhi can be such a butt, but I really like __ about this setup, are you okay if I push with ___ happening?
"Drag 'em on an adventure (or, at the least, present the opportunity). Don't just expect them to sit there wallowing in passive aggressive asshole.
EDIT (because I can't post without 'em):
Also, personally, when building an asshole character I think it's wisest to give them reason to move. Zhavi was never just sitting around in a tavern, she was always in the middle of something, regardless of whether or not I was emoting about it. Therefore it was always easy for me to pick up and go, drag someone, whatever.
I aligned her weaknesses (and relative arrogant youth) to make it easy for her to make mistakes (GUESS WHAT WALKUP FRIEND, MISTAKEN IDENTITY TIME LET'S GO ON A HEIST), or to just have her not give a shit when a convenient person presented themselves to be used in one of her schemes.
You know, you judge the walkup character, wait a few posts to get a feel for them, then tailor something to them so you can give them something to enjoy other than a bad or standoffish personality. Create the circumstances that force the interaction that gives them something to react to and act with so they don't feel like they're forced to carry the interaction.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Narissis - 08-31-2017
Regarding items and how they're carried, I always try to weave that into the character's glamour and concept.
Razh carries his daggers on his hips, pretty much as rendered in-game. Rhaine uses Minfilia's attire for glam, and it has enough straps and things that it seems feasible for it to have a holder for her cane. Sylvain carries no weapon and instead conjures one using aether, so for him I use a padjali/kinna weapon set to hide when it's sheathed. I guess the one that might be a bit of a stretch would be Takeshi, but for him I can just handwave it as magitek shenanigans.
As far as asshole characters are concerned... the thing that's important to keep in mind is that your character treating another character like crap is not the same thing as you treating the other player like crap. If you sense that the person you're RPing with might not fully grasp this, a disclaimer in the form of a tell wouldn't go amiss.
The other thing that's really important is that your asshole character has a reason to be an asshole. While it's true that there are people IRL who really are just plain jerks, and that's not out of the question for RP, it does make it difficult for other characters to interact with them and that's a caveat that must be kept in mind when making such a character. But if your character is an asshole for a reason (or an agglomeration of reasons), then you can evaluate their reaction to any given situation based on that background. In doing this, you'll inevitably have them reveal glimpses of their inner struggles/vulnerabilities/weaknesses/etc., and this can be enough to intrigue another character sufficiently that they put up with the asshole behaviour in an effort to get to know your character better.
RE: Imaginary items and angry men, oh my. - Rosekitten - 08-31-2017
I only really detail items out if I need to. Sometimes I make mention on how her axe is being carried or a note that she has at least a pair of daggers visible. Maybe small things here and there. Nothing that in most cases you have to really worry about. The details are more important is you are getting art done and it's something different from the character model or if you need to make mention of a feature or look of the character that isn't in the game more than the details of weapons and trying to explain the game graphics.Â
Now on the note of character personalities... my own character is anti social and blunt more often than not. I do make sure to talk to most people I rp with ooc'ly so they know I'm not trying to hurt their feelings or that im just in some bad mood. Generally I'll set up encounters or events due to the fact that the character doesn't usually go out of her way to track people down. I think it's all about communication to be honest. You can play whatever type of character you want to just think about how it may come across to others and talk with people you rp with to explain some things. You'll make and keep more friends that way instead of people walking away from your rp thinking that you are just being mean just because.. (because a lot of people I have noticed over the years take ic far too seriously into their ooc thoughts and feelings).