Much Ado About Elezen - Printable Version

Much Ado About Elezen - Printable Version

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Much Ado About Elezen - Solistor - 09-21-2017

So I've got a character idea that I think works, but just wanted to drop it here for some constructive criticism - ideas that are frowned upon, don't make sense, or just outright lorebreaking, among other things. Rather than him and haw about what I'm concerned about, I'll just drop a profile I filled out a while back for my old guild's forum and let y'all tear it to pieces.Â Thumbsup

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Considering changing up some details of his backstory, like how he became a gunner, but otherwise that's the basic gist of what I have in mind.

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Sounsyy - 09-21-2017

Hey there Solistor, welcome back! Most everything about the profile is pretty general enough that there's no problems just running with the idea! There were a couple of things I wanted to bring up though.

The first is timeline. You mentioned the Calamity happened when Varn was a young man and it's what forced the family to relocate to Thanalan as refugees. You also mentioned years and years passed towards the bottom and your character appears(?) older, however, the Calamity only happened 5-6 years ago (per lore). Whether or not this alters the story at all I guess depends on how old your character is intended to be now?

Assuming he is supposed to be an older character and you're looking for a replacement event to drive the Kriegspire family from the Shroud, there's only a few things that come to mind. Fifteen years ago, in 1562 6AE, the Greenwrath awakened after a small forest fire, resulting in a temporary end in the protection of the elementals. This was also the year of the Battle of Silvertear Skies, where Garlemald launched its fleet over Gridania into Mor Dhona. It was thought by many as a prelude to Eorzea's destruction, and as Gridania was now (and had been for 5 years) on the frontlines against the Garlean Empire, many chose to leave the city-state behind. Unfortunately there's not a lot of other major Gridania-altering events in recent history (besides the Calamity of course).

The second bit is regarding the railway. This is one of those things you can sorta evade or handwave, so take what you will from this. The railways we see in Thanalan were constructed following the Calamity and are based on magitek technology from the Garlond Ironworks. The innovation of the steam engine allowed Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern to increase production and profits. Amajina hires its own guard, called the Stone Torches, to watch over the railways.

Here's why I say you can handwave this fairly easily: 1) it's not uncommon for the Stone Torches to hire out help since all Ul'dahn police/military/law is mercenary anyways. 2) While there are no railways leading into southern Thanalan in canon, we do know that Amajina & Sons has had and continues to have interests in the area. It was their surveys which discovered Byregot's Strike. 3) You're talking deep south Sagolii Desert area, which traders used to traverse on their way to the coastal villages on the southernmost point of Aldenard, Cape Deadwind. There could be leftover prototype clockwork rail tracks left over from this era decades ago. Though this is kinda headcanon territory, obviously, but the idea is fun and general enough that it shouldn't cause any issues.

Hope this helps! ^^

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Solistor - 09-21-2017

Hey Sounsyy! Thanks for the feedback, I'm honestly sort of clueless when it comes to FFXIV lore. I understand general concepts, but it's the minor details (like timelines) that get me. As it were, I think the guild I was running with had a lax policy about lore stuff so I really do appreciate it.

You're correct in assuming my character is supposed to be older, and depending on lifespans and such (I think I read somewhere that all races have similar lifespans? Correct me if I'm wrong) I might have to alter his heritage anyway. I know Elezen are primarily from the Twelveswood, but are they allÂ from that region? If so, perhaps his family would have moved of their own accord for some reason, and he was just raised the way he was from the beginning. I have no experience with FFXIV lore pre-Calamity, though, so I wouldn't be able to say.

As far as the railways go, if they were built after the Calamity then he'd already be well past middle-age when he was hired on as extra security. I'd want most of his experience to be as a machinist/gunner/what have you, so unless magitek existed for us some 15-20 years before the Calamity I may have to rethink my character.

Sorry, that was a little stream-of-consciousness, but I have this habit of deleting an entire post and coming to a conclusion without explaining my thought process, which leaves people a little confused when I up and go "nvm just gonna do this instead". Which, depending on timeline fuggery, I might have to do.

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Valence - 09-21-2017

All races have similar lifespans yes, except the elezens that tend to spread a little longer over the years. They get out of their teens a bit past twenty for example.Â

You can find Wildwood and Duskwight elezens in the Shroud yes, but also Ishgardian elezens in... Ishgard/Coerthas. Their ancestors left the Twelveswood 1000 years ago, which was before the Pact of Gelmorra, so before any distinction could be made between wilwoods and duskwights. They are thus, I believe, a "subrace" of their own now.

This doesn't mean that they all live exclusively here though. For example, Carvallain is one of the famous and powerful captains in the Thalassocracy of Limsa, and he's elezen. Another somewhat influential elezen, Niellefresne, was a necromancer and lived in Ul'dah, and was the lover of F'lhaminn (Minfillia adoptive mother).Â

So, reasons can be pretty common for people to move around the world really.

Magitek has existed for over 50 years now when Garlemald invented the Ceruleum engine. Thing is though, it was exclusively found in garlean hands until Cid Garlond defected just before the Calamity, so pretty recently. The arrival of Magitek in Eorzea proper by other means that garlean invasion and the subsequent magitek/industrial revolution is just starting, with airships rivaling each other and all manner of Garlond made magitek contraptions.

Machinist is an extremely new and specific job created by lord Stephaniven, the heir of House Haillenarte in Ishgard. He created for that purpose the Skysteel Manufactory and tries to spread that new art all around Ishgard (often as a mean to tip the balance between the knights of the aristocracy, and the proles of the Brume and/or commoners).Â

Machinist however is specific and requires the use of a Magitek aetherotransformer to process the body excess aether into levin aspected energy channeled directly into the gun to create various pyrotechnics and whatnot.

Guns though, have existed for ages, way before Magitek was even a thing. Most were flintlock and are widely used, especially by the pirates and scoundrels of Limsa (but are illegal to carry in the city). The NPC trainer for the machinist job, Rotsnstahl, is a flintlock specialist roegadyn experienced in that regard. Another thing to note is that the musketeer guild is a thing in Limsa, and was briefly portrayed in 1.0.

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Sounsyy - 09-21-2017

(09-21-2017, 12:54 PM)Solistor Wrote: You're correct in assuming my character is supposed to be older, and depending on lifespans and such (I think I read somewhere that all races have similar lifespans? Correct me if I'm wrong) I might have to alter his heritage anyway.

The Races of Man all have a biological lifespan about as long as we do IRL. The Elezen have a slightly extended lifespan (as well as a delayed development and puberty). The Encyclopedia Eorzea cites this extension as being somewhere between one- or two-tenths longer than their fellow man. So if a person of a differing race can biologically live anywhere from 80-100 years, an Elezen can biologically live anywhere from 90-110 or 100-120 years old. This, of course, is with best health, avoiding environmental dangers, war, etc. Most people in Eorzea don't get to live out their full lifespans though, and many would consider a man over 50 or 60 to be quite old.

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Sources
- More Elezen Lore

Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:The Wildwood Elezen are long of limb, with males and females oft reaching heights of greater than eighty and seventy-seven ilms, respectively. With lifespans one- or two-tenths again as long as their fellow races, their physical maturity is somewhat delayed. It is not uncommon for Wildwood children to look up to their Hyuran friends in their early teens, only to rapidly outstrip them around the age of twenty. Owing in part to their large ears, they possess a sense of hearing keener than that of the other races. The Wildwood Elezen also display a natural affinity for magic, with great mages hailing from this clan seen throughout history.

Las Vegas Fanfest Lore Panel 2014 Wrote:Q: What are the age scales of every race? How long do they live and how long does it take them to become an adult?

Fernehalwes: Okay, yeah I asked about this and I was told that age-scale wise the five races biologically they can live about- they have the same lifespan as we do here on earth. They can live one hundred, one hundred and twenty biologically. The thing is, here we have modern medicine, we have jobs that don't take us on to the battlefield, we have food in refrigerators not sitting in a barrel. And so we can live that long, whereas, in Eorzea its a much harsher realm. I mean you've got raptors roaming the jungle. "I need to go out and pick an ogre pumpkin!" "Oh sorry, daddy got eaten by a raptor as he was picking our dinner pumpkin so it looks like we're having nothing for dinner tonight." And so daddy dies of raptor and children die of starvation because they couldn't get the pumpkin.

On top of that you have wars and people are fighting Ishgard, I wouldn't expect most people would live longer than like thirty years. That's the thing, so you get an average lifespan that is a lot shorter, y'know in the forties, fifties. I mean there was the one quest about, back in 1.0... there was the Lalafell that was put in the Oubliette in Ul'dah, and he was in there praying and because he was this zen thing and he focused and he slowed his breathing and he lived for hundreds of years or whatever. Other than that people aren't going to live that long.

That said, Elezen actually do have a longer lifespan than the other four races. And this also appears in the- when they go from child to puberty to adulthood. So which is why you'll see in the- in 1.0 there was a bunch of Elezen children that appeared in some of the quests and they appear again in 2.0, and they're still children. And you think well it's been five years why are they still children? It's because again that childhood for Elezen can last much longer. And they end up living longer as well. Um, but for the most part it's pretty much just the same as us, but with more... fatality.

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(09-21-2017, 12:54 PM)Solistor Wrote: I know Elezen are primarily from the Twelveswood, but are they allÂ from that region? If so, perhaps his family would have moved of their own accord for some reason, and he was just raised the way he was from the beginning. I have no experience with FFXIV lore pre-Calamity, though, so I wouldn't be able to say.

They are not! In Eorzea, Elezen are most commonly found in the Coerthas and Twelveswood regions. That said, there are many Elezen who live in Thanalan and La Noscea. Elezen seafarers were among Limsa Lominsa's founding crew, and several Elezen families have risen to great prominence in Ul'dah, one even sat on the Syndicate until the Calamity five years ago.

So whether you wanted your family to start in the Shroud or elsewhere is all right! If you have any questions about something pre-Calamity though, feel free to ask. It's not a topic that a lot of people have a good grasp on, so I'm more than happy to help. (I really need to get working on a pre-Calamity timeline. >< )

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(09-21-2017, 12:54 PM)Solistor Wrote: As far as the railways go, if they were built after the Calamity then he'd already be well past middle-age when he was hired on as extra security. I'd want most of his experience to be as a machinist/gunner/what have you, so unless magitek existed for us some 15-20 years before the Calamity I may have to rethink my character.

Magitek was first introduced to Eorzea circa the Year 1562-1563, roughly 15 years ago from the present day when Cid nan Garlond and several of his engineers defected from the Garlean Empire and founded the Garlond Ironworks. They since been recreating and reverse engineering new magitek creations and gifting them to the Eorzean Alliance.

That said, Eorzean firearms have long pre-dated magitek. Both Limsa Lominsa and Ishgard have been developing firearms for decades, if not longer. Lominsans use (loosely) flintlock pistols and long barreled muskets. Rounded ball ammunition ignited with firesand. The Ishgardians borrowed a lot of Lominsan technology in their fight against the dragons and adapted Lominsan firearms and cannons to their own similar designs, though they utilized ceruleum and firesand with their munitions.

In Limsa, the pistol and musket became a staple of seafarers and the navy. Limsa has strict gun control regulations though, making it hard to smuggle rifle out of the city on the black market, but not impossible.

In Ishgard, however, the musket fell out of favor long ago. Not so much because of its ineffectiveness, but because they dressed their marksmen so gaudily that they were easily spotted by both dragons and enemy archers alike. The modern revival at House Haillenarte's Skysteel Manufactory takes Lominsan firearms and combines them with magitek technology from Garlond Ironworks, and combines them with an Ishgardian invention of the aetherotransformer, which applies Lightning-aspected aether to their bullets.

- Machinist Lore

That said, there's absolutely nothing that says he couldn't have found a black market musket, an old Ishgardian firearm, a pre-Imperial Garlean revolver, or even an actual Garlean magitek rifle from some highwaymen. Just because magitek wasn't widespread in Eorzea doesn't mean someone couldn't have stolen it from Garlean troops and tried to sell it somewhere for a profit. So the option is definitely open for you to still be an old desert gunslinger if you want to be!

As for the railway not existing until post-Calamity, Varn could've still been a pugilist/gunslinger guard of any one of a number of trading concerns, companies, consortiums, or chocobo caravans! Like I was saying before, traders used to trek through the Sagolii Desert to trade with the villages in Cape Deadwind to the south, or to the hamlets across Eorzea. And later on he might've gotten picked up by Amajina & Sons to help guard their railways.

Figured I'd drop in the names of some of the more prominent travelling trading companies. Feel free to use, feel free to make up your own! These aren't all the ones out there by far.

-East Aldenard Trading Company (based in Ul'dah, trades all over the world, owned by Lolorito)
-Jolly Raptor (shipping company based in Ul'dah owned by the EATC)
-Ashgana's Exporters (based in Ul'dah, formerly owned by the late Master Ashgana)
-Baert Trading Company (based in Ul'dah, a disreputable and cutthroat company)
-Ashcrown Consortium (based in Ul'dah now formerly Gridania, regulates crystal trade)
-Seventy-seven Caravans (branches in Ul'dah and Limsa Lominsa primarily, trades with Meracydia)
-Black Rabbit Traders (based in Gridania, owned by Maisenta Hawke, trades with Ul'dah mostly)
-Brugaire Consortium (based in Limsa, largest merchant outfitters in Limsa)
-Gigas Forge (based in Limsa, arms dealers who trade with the Far East)
-Straight Edge Traders (South Seas arms dealers who trade with the EATC)
-Woolvale Arms (foreign arms dealers who trade with the EATC)

Hope this helps! ^^

Edit:

(09-21-2017, 02:57 PM)Valence Wrote: For example, Carvallain is one of the famous and powerful captains in the Thalassocracy of Limsa, and he's elezen. Another somewhat influential elezen, Niellefresne, was a necromancer and lived in Ul'dah...

To be fair, Carvallain de Gorgagne is Ishgardian, former eldest son and heir to House Durendaire. That said, it doesn't discount there are in fact plenty of Elezen in Limsa who are Lominsan natives. Several of Carvallain's crew, in fact, as well as his "bride to be."

As for Niellefresne, he is not a necromancer. He's a goldsmith, in fact, fifteen years ago he was one of the most famous and influential goldsmiths in Ul'dah. It wasn't until his hairbrained scheme to gain popularity and show Ul'dahn citizens they needed to stand up to Garlemald got an Ala Mhigan double-agent (Minfilia's father) killed, who had news critical to Ul'dah's survival, that he attempted to use Heartstrike, a dagger which legend claimed if used by a thaumaturge could temporarily restore the dead to life. The dagger, however, was the possession of Lord Lolorito, owner of the goldsmiths' guild. So when Niellefresne took the dagger and was killed by a Syndicate assassin, foul play was laid on Niellefresne, and Nielle's father, who was guildmaster of Eshtaime's Lapidaries at the time, was fired and the position fell to a Lalafell named Yuyune, who was later replaced by Serendipity, the current guildmaster.

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Solistor - 09-21-2017

(09-21-2017, 02:57 PM)Valence and Sounsyy Wrote: Valuable and useful lore info

Oh wow, thank you so much! With all that in mind, here's what I'm thinking:

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New HistoryFrom his gruff demeanor to the lines on his face, it's plain to all that this man's seen his fair share of shit. More than just age, however, Varn's temperament embodies the sort of lawbringing frontiersman told of in stories by the desertfolk. No guff, no mercy for the wicked. The Kriegspire family's lived in the Thanalan deserts for as long as Varn can remember, and beyond as well, most like. The family lived primarily in Ul'dah, as Varn's father Olbant was a pugilist of the city's arena, but his mother Vivienne mostly lent her potent thaumaturgy to various EATC caravans. As such, Varn's upbringing was mostly with his father, but on rare occasions he got to see his mother. Naturally, Olbant taught him how to defend himself - and perhaps a few flashier moves just for kicks. During Varn's teen years, however, Olbant succumbed to a fatal blow on the Bloodsands, in a fight with a particularly violent Noxius. For a time, Varn was sad, but that sadness turned to anger as Vivienne didn't even take time out of her schedule to fill the void left by Olbant. Varn started picking fights to vent this anger, but Olbant's teachings proved resilient even after his demise.Â

Eventually the city had proved tired of his shenanigans, but rather than chastise the lad, Varn's mother proposed to hire him alongside her as a caravan bodyguard to learn him some discipline - and perhaps mend the rift that had grown between the two. At first Varn proved resistant to the idea, but after a few tours he had grown up a bit more and evened out his temper, even taking the first steps to reconciling with Vivienne. Then, she too was taken in a vicious attack on one of the caravans. Varn had managed to fight them off, but it was already too late for Vivienne. They were several hundred malms away from any sort of clinic, but something within him knew that even if they were able to get her medical help, she'd have refused it. Perhaps it was selfishness, a desire to return to her beloved, or maybe a sense of peace. Either way, it only reignited Varn's anger - except this time it was directed at the criminals. Picking up a flintlock pistol used by one of the highwaymen, Varn learned of its operation and, despite initial wariness on his employers' part, put it to effective use in defense of the caravans he escorted.

Varn had been in the steady employ of the East Aldenard Trading Company as a hired hand for nearly a decade before the advent of magitek and the Garlond Ironworks. While initially curious, Varn wasn't about to give up his steady job to chase some fool's notion. And then, another decade later, the Calamity struck. Varn was well into his middle years at this point, but miraculously he survived. It was clear the world was in turmoil now, and it was high time a little frontier justice was dispensed to those who would perpetrate it.

Whew, that turned out a bit longer than I'd anticipated! But more detail is alwaysÂ usually good, so I think I can call it done. What do you think?

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Valence - 09-22-2017

Out of curiosity, was his father a Noxius in the bloodsands? Or just a professional gladiator? This could change a lot the outlook a child would get of the thing I think.

Also if it can help, getting healed in Ul'dah doesn't come off exactly cheap. 1.0 portrays that in a very grim manner when the Phrondale doesn't accept to heal a refugee child because she has no money (and they ask a pretty juicy amount). Maybe his mother was wealthy enough with her job though. In any case, it's another possibility in Ul'dah.

(09-21-2017, 03:08 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: To be fair, Carvallain de Gorgagne is Ishgardian, former eldest son and heir to House Durendaire. That said, it doesn't discount there are in fact plenty of Elezen in Limsa who are Lominsan natives. Several of Carvallain's crew, in fact, as well as his "bride to be."

Well yes, that's why I took him as an example of elezen living somewhere else than in Gridania or Ishgard.

(09-21-2017, 03:08 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: As for Niellefresne, he is not a necromancer. He's a goldsmith, in fact, fifteen years ago he was one of the most famous and influential goldsmiths in Ul'dah. It wasn't until his hairbrained scheme to gain popularity and show Ul'dahn citizens they needed to stand up to Garlemald got an Ala Mhigan double-agent (Minfilia's father) killed, who had news critical to Ul'dah's survival, that he attempted to use Heartstrike, a dagger which legend claimed if used by a thaumaturge could temporarily restore the dead to life. The dagger, however, was the possession of Lord Lolorito, owner of the goldsmiths' guild. So when Niellefresne took the dagger and was killed by a Syndicate assassin, foul play was laid on Niellefresne, and Nielle's father, who was guildmaster of Eshtaime's Lapidaries at the time, was fired and the position fell to a Lalafell named Yuyune, who was later replaced by Serendipity, the current guildmaster.

Really? My mistake then, that's what happens when you don't have played through 1.0 and have to relay on second hand videos and wikis... :/

So yeah, he just tried to play necromancer then... Makes way more sense.

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Solistor - 09-22-2017

(09-22-2017, 04:35 AM)Valence Wrote: Out of curiosity, was his father a Noxius in the bloodsands? Or just a professional gladiator? This could change a lot the outlook a child would get of the thing I think.

Also if it can help, getting healed in Ul'dah doesn't come off exactly cheap. 1.0 portrays that in a very grim manner when the Phrondale doesn't accept to heal a refugee child because she has no money (and they ask a pretty juicy amount). Maybe his mother was wealthy enough with her job though. In any case, it's another possibility in Ul'dah.

I was running with the idea that his father was a professional. I read that the only fights involving Noxius are Gladiator v Noxius, so it wouldn't make sense for him to have died by one, unless that's just a headcanon. I didn't write it into his story, but I had the idea that his father's death by prisoner and his mother's death by bandits with nothing being done about either (father died in the arena, and mother died away from jurisdiction) were what spurred his desire for justice. Though, I am curious to know what you mean by that - how would it change their outlook? Sorry if this seems like an obvious question.

That could actually be a good driver for that plot point, but with the both of them earning money and, presumably, putting it towards the same things, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason they wouldn't be able to afford it. Perhaps Vivi had a little gambling problem at the arenas and that's how she met Olbant, who knows?

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Valence - 09-23-2017

Well since a Noxius is forced to fight in the Bloodsands, out of debts or penniless, or out of past crimes or accusations (like Raubahn that was taken for an imperial spy), I suppose that a son could feel some resentment about it, unlike a gladiator son that might to the contrary feel a certain pride.

I was also thinking about calamities and serious events that took place in Gridania, and besides the Calamity itself and the Greenwrath, there was also the Creeping Death pandemic that killed Â a third of the hyur there (no elezens though, it's just a hyur disease), but the main issue is that the two main accounts ingame are contradictory: one NPC says it was not so long ago, while the other says it was long ago actually. Hard to make an accurate sense of time here, but maybe Sounssy knows more?

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Sounsyy - 09-23-2017

(09-23-2017, 04:21 AM)Valence Wrote: ...there was also the Creeping Death pandemic that killed Â a third of the hyur there (no elezens though, it's just a hyur disease), but the main issue is that the two main accounts ingame are contradictory: one NPC says it was not so long ago, while the other says it was long ago actually. Hard to make an accurate sense of time here, but maybe Sounssy knows more?

The Creeping Death occurred in the Year 1322, 255 years ago. By the time a cure was found five years later by an Ul'dahn alchemist, over a third of Gridania's Hyuran population was dead, drastically altering the overall racial makeup of the city-state indefinitely.

The disease was cured but not eradicated, however. There have been the occasional minor outbreaks since. Which is why you can still find members of Gridania's Trappers' League and the Greatloam Growery taking measures to prevent future outbreaks.

[ Sources ]

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Solistor - 10-07-2017

So, after getting some quality time with MCH I've been thinking about my character and how I want to write him going forward. I think rather than making him a frontier cowboy type, I might have him be a true machinist. A lot of this decision stems from aesthetics, because this looks pretty damn cool. A lot of the smaller details like the visor open themselves up for neat interactions I could write to add some character to my, well, character. Also, the aetherotransformer would stick out like a sore thumb in any western-styled glamour I could come up with unless it was some hybridized thing, and at that point I'd rather just go full magitek.

As for the lore, I was thinking of changing him to be native Ishgardian, and lowering his age by a couple decades to align with the timeline a bit better. Varn's father worked as an engineer in the Skysteel Manufactory, and Vivienne worked closely with Olbant as an astromancer (astrologian? not entirely sure about the lore here) and served to help direct his work as far as when the dragons were expected. When Varnaumont was born, both Olbant and Vivienne were in their early 30s, which would make Varn in his mid to late 20s at present day. Of course, he learned a little of both disciplines, but took after his father more and eventually joined the Manufactory alongside him. I'm not sure when Stephanivien took over the Manufactory, but I would wager that he'd have done so before Varn was old enough to be brought on. In this version of events, both of Varn's parents are very much alive, so I would probably just shift the current look I have onto his father, who would be about the age I was originally going to have Varn be.

I do want to apologize for the sudden shift, I don't mean to cast aside all the useful information you've given me in the creation of my character. That said, if aught is amiss with my new history, please let me know.Â Thumbsup

RE: Much Ado About Elezen - Valence - 10-10-2017

More info on the Skysteel if you need:

Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:Once dedicated to the production of traditional arms and armor, House Haillenarte's Manufactory has since become a center for the research and development of ballistas, cannons, and other advanced armaments designed to fell dragons [cf, Dragonkillers]. Recently, they penned an agreement with Garlond Ironwworks allowing them to begin mass production of small-scale airships.

Stephaniven's taking over, I don't remember when exactly, but in any case machinistry is brand new and just starting to spread in Ishgard.