This thread is rated H for Heretic Content

This thread is rated H for Heretic Content - Printable Version

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This thread is rated H for Heretic Content - hologramblue - 01-15-2018

Heretics! By which I specifically mean people of CoerthanÂ origin who are actually allied with Dravanians against Ishgard, not political inconveniences to the Ishgardian status quo who've been marked for destruction.

Things I know:

1) Any information on heretics that comes from Ishgardian sources - CCH MSQ, leves, other flavor text - is necessarily biased, first because it will discount any possible motivations or beliefs in favor of THEY JUST HATE HALONE, and secondly because Ishgardians lump a lot of different things into the "heretic" label. Some of this bias is easy to pick out. Some of it is less so, especially in things like FATE descriptions where the line between IC and OOC description can be unclear.

2) It is, at least, safe to assume that heretics are not universally people who got up one day with a raging hate-on for Halone and hankering to murder some of their countrymen. Plenty seem to have been failed by or driven out from Ishgardian society and displaced their faith onto dragons.

3) That said, many of those we get to see seem less than lucid, though I'm not sure how much of that is ARR jank (aevises in SV Hard come to mind). Drinking dragon blood and completing your transformation appears to do something to your mental state.

4) There is some kind of established heretic belief system - see the draconian rosaries, the value placed on transforming into an aevis, the images of Shiva. This info is heavily colored by Ishgard bias, because anything that seems weird and aberrant gets talked up and anything actually kind of reasonable is denied.

5) Militant heretics are, if not friends with Nidhogg's minions, then at least on good enough terms to fight together with them, as when the dude summons a wyvern at Witchdrop.

Things I know I don't know:

1) Any info from the Dragoon job quests.

Things I'd like to know:

1) Just how many heretics are there? Is defecting to the Dravanians like joining a tight-knit club where you know most people, or is it much more distributed than that? If you're not an undercover heretic and you've actually packed up and headed west, what does your daily life and social circle look like?

2) Are the militant heretics we've seen pretty representative of the whole - like, to be cool with the Dravanians, you have to commit to fighting - or are there "casual" heretics out there who just kind of live their dragon-revering lives?

3) Was worship of Shiva a thing before Iceheart showed up with her revelation, or was that story news to everyone?

4) What exactly does turning into an aevis do to you? If you don't get shanked by Ishgardians, does it leave any kind of tempering-like effect, or do you just kind of go back to normal eventually...? Do dragons actually possess hypno-vision that enthralls people? How much of this is Ishgard talking up how scary evil dragons are and how much is actually kind of shady?

5) How much face-to-face contact with dragons does the average heretic have? Is this mostly an ideology that is spread and negotiated mortal to mortal, or does(/did) the Horde have an active interest in cultivating and working with a force of Coerthan apostates?

Basically: seeking a realistic perspective on the lives of Dravanian sympathizers that allows for RPing one beyond a caricature level.

RE: This thread is rated H for Heretic Content - Sounsyy - 01-15-2018

I'm at work at the moment, but I can try to give some short answers to some of these questions for now. First off, these links might prove handy as they go over most of the lore we can infer from:

- Ishgardian Heresy and Heretical Cults
- Dragon Blood Lore
- Dragon and Dragoon Lore

1) As mentioned in my first link, this really depends on which faction of heretic your character belongs to, if any. The Faces of Mercy, for example, only know two other members of their cell and remain isolated embedded in their posts. The Bloodbearers faction appears smaller and may be closer knit, sticking mostly to the Dravanian Forelands.

2) Of the Dravanian heretics we've seen, most all have been militant. Assuming they're defecting specifically to join the dragons, they are more than likely going to Nidhogg's brood - thereby committing to Nidhogg's war of attrition against the Holy See. That said, Nidhogg goes into long periods of slumber in between periods of attacking Ishgard. The start of Heavensward marked the 9th Awakening of Nidhogg. The 8th Awakening occurring 20ish years ago. Alternatively, not all heretics worship dragons. Some are just criminals, blasphemers, or deserters and it's entirely possible some of these "heretics" would like nothing more than to just live out their lives in peace somewhere far from Ishgard.

3) Shiva worship, as we see it in Heavensward, is a newer development. Though Saint Shiva has been the matron saint of many Ishgardian heretics for some time, it wasn't until Lady Iceheart glimpsed the true nature of Shiva via the Echo that her faction of heretics really began to grow into one of the largest and most organized.

4) From Lady Heustienne, one of the Knights Dragoon, we learn that after she is forced to drink dragon blood she begins craving it, and Alberic notes that the substance will eventually claim her mind. As for turning into an aevis, at first the process is not permanent. Depending on the quality of the blood and the amount of Ratatoskr's essence in the drinkers own blood, it may take several more tries.

So the mind-altering effects of dragon blood may be real. But we can't really be sure if meeting a dragon's eyes, hearing a dragon speak, or touching a living dragon's scales can put you under a dragon's spell or not.

5) This falls into unknown territory as it's also largely dependant on which cult. Some heretics don't have dealings with dragon's at all. The Bloodbearers take their blood straight from the dragon Graoully.

Hope this helps! Sorry there's not a lot to go on since we mostly view heretics from an Ishgardian perspective.

RE: This thread is rated H for Heretic Content - hologramblue - 01-15-2018

Just the fact that there's an established variety of factions helps, actually; it's a lot easier to just make up a new faction with its own norms than to try to tease out some universal heretic culture.

Where does the very first quote on the first link come from? That speaker shares a name with Truthspeaker Huibairten from the FATE chain in the Forelands - coincidence, or did that guy have dialogue in 1.0?

RE: This thread is rated H for Heretic Content - Sounsyy - 01-15-2018

(01-15-2018, 07:12 PM)hologramblue Wrote: Where does the very first quote on the first link come from? That speaker shares a name with Truthspeaker Huibairten from the FATE chain in the Forelands - coincidence, or did that guy have dialogue in 1.0?

Hubairtien was an Elezen living in Falcon's Nest in 1.0, which is where that quote comes from.

[Image: hubairtien_ff14.jpg]

Hubairtien Wrote:A man must gaze not upon the eyes of a dragon.
A man must hearken not the words of a dragon.
A man must lay his hands not upon the flesh nor blood of a dragon.
The archbishop, his Holiness, declares thus, and thus is it law.

Presumably not the same as Truthspeaker Huibairten, leader of his band of heretics out in the Forelands.