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Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Printable Version

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Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Orlog - 06-28-2013

We have another instance of a topic popping up in previous threads. So, I thought I would finally gather my ideas and actually put them down in a thread somewhere and allow us to discuss the idea.

How concrete are racial cultures really in Eorzea? I know lore wise every race a somewhat distinctive culture, especially in the Miqo'te/Lalafell/Roegadyn category, but would such a distinct cultural trait like... let's say, tribalism with Miqo'te stand the years of instant transportation and a world that has essentially turned into the melding pot of influences?

Here's my thoughts on the matter:

I personally have a very hard time basing my characters off of lore specific to the races in FFXIV. In game, we don't actually see a lot of these traits actually come up, despite how heavily some people push on it. I made Bea to be specifically very cultured, in that she pretty much has no cultural identity. Despite being a Roegadyn, she grew up no where near the sea and in her later years spent most of her time trouncing about the forest. And despite her group preferring to work via ship, she's basically no sea legs to speak of and the salty air around the water irritates her more than makes her feel "at home" as the lore of Roegadyn would suggest.

And while there might be a few traits held on to by a race, I feel as though making a character completely embedded in (again, going back to my previous example, not really nitpicking at this one specifically, though) tribal society just doesn't really make sense for how the world is currently working.

And... as per my new policy, I'd like to note that if you disagree with me, that's alright! You're perfectly well entitled to your own opinions. But, please don't take my opinions on the matter as anything but. Smile

So, what say you, people of the forum?

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Adelpha - 06-28-2013

I'd imagine that just like the real world, this sort of thing covers a wide spectrum. Even in the face of globalization and the Internet, there are many culturally conservative/traditional families in (often less-industrialized) parts of the world that value tradition and culture very highly, where there are many others who do not. The frequency at which you'd find these culturally-conservative groups would conceivably vary based on geographic location, isolation, ease of access to foreign culture/technology, etc.

The same could easily be true in Eorzea as well; I could definitely see there being some very remote pockets of civilization that don't often come into contact with the city-states, and therefore have retained a strong cultural identity. I wouldn't imagine that it's extremely common, but I don't think it's out of the question for a character to have that sort of backstory. A character who's spent most of their life among other races would likely exhibit far less of their "traditional" cultural identity, though, sure; doubly so for characters whose family's cultural assimilation dates back a generation or more.

tl;dr: I don't think there's anything wrong with a character that exhibits traits representative of their "traditional" culture, nor do I think there's anything wrong with a character who doesn't. As long as the backstory is believable, it doesn't make a difference to me.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Orlog - 06-28-2013

(06-28-2013, 07:07 PM)Adelpha Wrote: I don't think there's anything wrong with a character that exhibits traits representative of their "traditional" culture, nor do I think there's anything wrong with a character who doesn't. As long as the backstory is believable, it doesn't make a difference to me.

Fair enough. But let's say, for instance, a character claims to be from Ul'dah, their family also from Ul'dah, but they choose to have this character exhibit very traditional culture that typically isn't around that area?

I mention this because I've seen this happen a few times and I'm not quite sure how to go about it. I agree that traditional culture isn't exactly unheard of, but, like the lore of male Miqo'te, it should be something that's not really all that common. Should we ignore all lore/worldly signs that say that this shouldn't be happening as much as it is? Or perhaps treat them as they actually are a rare gem, despite the numerous other people claiming the same kind of thing?

And to add to that: Would isolated pockets like we see in our world actually be able to exist, given the fact that there's instant transportation? Even if said people chose to stay put, there's nothing stopping others from popping up where they are whenever they please.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Adelpha - 06-28-2013

(06-28-2013, 07:14 PM)Bea Wrote: Fair enough. But let's say, for instance, a character claims to be from Ul'dah, their family also from Ul'dah, but they choose to have this character exhibit very traditional culture that typically isn't around that area?
Yeah, in that particular case, I don't think it'd make quite as much sense. Maybe there's some sort of Orthodox Miqo'te (lol?) sect in each city-state that we don't know about, but that's probably assuming an awful lot, and I generally don't like to make assumptions about the lore. If the character's backstory involves them being a city-state resident for their entire lives (or even going back multiple generations), those sorts of traits would seem pretty out of place, unless the character's parents were abnormally rigid about maintaining tradition for some reason.

(06-28-2013, 07:14 PM)Bea Wrote: Should we ignore all lore/worldly signs that say that this shouldn't be happening as much as it is? Or perhaps treat them as they actually are a rare gem, despite the numerous other people claiming the same kind of thing?
I don't have an answer to this. I actually find myself wondering the same thing about a lot of "rare" traits that are apparently quite common among RP'ed characters. Perhaps just the nature of everyone wanting to be "unique" in the same way and thereby everyone ending up being the same Wink

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Orlog - 06-28-2013

(06-28-2013, 07:19 PM)Adelpha Wrote: I don't have an answer to this. I actually find myself wondering the same thing about a lot of "rare" traits that are apparently quite common among RP'ed characters. Perhaps just the nature of everyone wanting to be "unique" in the same way and thereby everyone ending up being the same Wink

Hmm. Being normal seems to be so underrated these days. I'm going to start a rallying call to make normalcy the norm yet again. Tongue

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - FreelanceWizard - 06-28-2013

I'd argue that there's probably a clash between the city-state cultures and the racial cultures. Characters raised in the city-states are likely to be more like them and less like the traditional lore. Those raised outside of them are likely to be more like the traditional lore. Fast or instant travel isn't really an issue here, I think, because it's fairly limited (airships are only reserved for important people, adventurers can't possibly make up the vast majority of the population so we have to assume NPCs unseen in areas inaccessible, Aetherytes don't exist everywhere, etc.) and because adventurers who've assimilated to city-state culture would likely be seen as "outsiders" by traditional cultures. In a very real sense, you can never go home again. Smile

There's another angle here, too, which is that some of the lore reads like it's historical information about how the races used to be and not so much how they are now. I'm not completely swayed by this argument, but those who are can easily side-step the "traditional" ways of their race on the basis that their family, at least, hasn't held to those ways in quite some time.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Magellan - 06-28-2013

I think our real world serves as a perfectly fine example of how things would also be in Eorzea; you have minor culture shock-

Minor:

+Someone who grew up on a farm their whole life, visits a city (or city-state) for the first time.

+Someone who's never traveled outside their own country visits a land where things are run much different.

These people would be a little awestruck, a little out of their depth, a little touristy, but would in most cases be able to blend in after awhile. Then you have medium culture shock;

Medium:

+Cultures such as Eskimos, Amish, Buddhist Monks! - groups that live among us, have contact with us, yet also keep themselves apart, fighting to hold on to their traditions and beliefs.

I expect the same sort of thing would happen in Eorzea; groups of races that are fully aware of the outside world, of the greater civilization, but mostly try to keep themselves out of it, other than for trade and news. If such a person were suddenly thrust into a city-state longterm, their adjustment would be much rougher than a case of mild culture shock. Then you have major;

Major:

+Aboriginees, Bushmen, Cannibals! - those who live in very remote areas, and have had little to no exposure to 'culture'. Just like in real life, these types would suffer from major culture shock, when exposed to a slice of 'culture'.

tl; dr In the end, it doesn't matter (imo). Whether you be city slicker, country bumpkin, isolated traditionalist, or relic from a lost time... all can be realistic and enjoyable to rp with Smile

... however, though I do echo your thought about being 'normal' normal is in the eye of the beholder. Someone with deeply rooted tribal beliefs might consider themselves to be perfectly normal. But it is easy and very tempting to try and give your character too much. Too make them TOO interesting, and too complicated;

I like to quote Pixar's the Incredibles in these cases;

(Syndrome): "When everyone is super... no one will be."

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - ArmachiA - 06-28-2013

I think it's a lot like Culture in the real world, it depends on how you were raised and where you grew up. Japan is a good example of this, where "Japanese culture" still exists, but they are very, very modern too. Rural areas are much more likely to be traditionalist than, say, Tokyo, but you still see bits and pieces in big cities (Shrines, Certain social stigma's, etc). Even knowing that, a person from Tokyo can be VERY traditional, because of how they were raised or because they want to be closer to their roots.

It's absolutely possible, and realistic, for an Ul'dah born and raised Miqote to want to be more of a traditionalist with traditional values to be closer to their culture. The exact opposite, a tribal Miqote wanting to break free of that culture by moving to a big city, is also realistic. This happens often in real life and I, personally, don't feel it makes anyone special. It's just an aspect of their character.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Elkabong419 - 06-29-2013

Now, I just want to preface my response by saying that I am brand new to the FFXIV lore, so I can only go off of the things I've read, and no "in game" experience.

*places a pie on the table* Blush

Now, to the topic at hand!

"How concrete are racial cultures really in Eorzea?"


I have no idea. HA!  


When I wrote the back story for my Roegadyn I scoured the inter-webs for information on this topic so that I could make his back story "believable" and "viable" for rp'ing. Not being able to find anything specific on Hellsguard culture, I resorted to examples from the real world and in fiction to fill in the gaps. 


Now, it's funny how you talked about a character "embedded" in a "tribal" society, as that is the back story I am going with on my Hellsguard. I wrote that his "tribe" has kept to the mountains that the Hellsguard hail from (Albathia's Spine if my memory serves me correct). 


Now, I have acknowledge that they have made contact with the "outside" world, hence the way they learned the "common" language, etc, etc... But for all intents and purposes they keep to themselves. when I RP him, I'm rp'ing that he is coming out of  the mountains for the first time, so most things will be very new to him. 


I based this thought process on the Amish of Pennsylvania (NOTE: Thanks to my fiancee that totally brought the Amish concept up to me). Yes, there are Amish that go out into the "regular" world. Yes, there are some Amish that have constant interaction with "outsiders", and yes, outsiders can go and see the Amish if they drive into Amish country. But how much do we really know of the Amish? I mean, we know that they are an industrious, god fearing people that make some WONDERFUL pies (mmm.. Shoefly Pie). 


After that though, how much (as average human beings) of their actual culture do we know about?  Now, I put (average human beings) in parenthesis because if you are a student of social interactions and cultures, yes you would have a deeper knowledge of the Amish. I would think that's the minority though. I'm talking about Jane and Joe Q Public that get their news from <insert social media here>. Now mind you, the Amish are a people, a sub culture if you will, that lives smack in the middle of U.S. but to most are still very foreign. 


From my travels I've found that every country has their own little sub set of people that no one knows much about.. From the Gypsies of the U.K., to the Bedoin tribes of the Middle East, to the Monks of Asia. Again, all these peoples do have some contact with "modern" society, but we really don't know much about their cultures then some candy coated topping.  


Another thing to remember is that, coming out of an Umbral age, some places could very well have been cut off due to the devastation of war, Bahamut throwing a hissy fit, etc. and people are just re-finding/re-establishing communications with these places. I like to think that Eorzea is a big enough place that things like this could happen. 


So.. Ya, there ya go. This is a good topic! Gives some great fuel for thought. Well done! Thumbsup

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Black - 07-01-2013

Maybe this is related or not; but just want to mention it and my observation:

(And this is probably a bit late, but meh... Tongue )

I've been going back and forth over my main's name in-game; I played him in 1.0 but not that much. He's still fairly "moldable" like clay in terms of name/background. He's a Roegadyn, too, and his first name is a bit "unorthodox" but his last name fits a bit better, although I still may want to change it up some.

I just got to Gridania and I've been heartened by some of the NPC names I've spied there. We know that a full Roegadyn (Sea-faring) name tends to have a full meaning, but it is spoken in the old Roegadyn language, as per the name-lore posts.

What I've seen in Gridania is Roegadyns with untranslated names or maybe they were given those names. I forget the exact names: One was literally called "Tall Oak" or something along those lines. If we were to translate that back into Roegadyn language, it would fit. While it may be as simple a reason as a dev forgot to translate the name, I doubt it. To me, it shows an NPC that has grown up in a new culture and adopted/embraced it. My own character is a bit like that, but a bit torn between the two cultures and not so easily filed into one or the other.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Asyria - 07-01-2013

The only thing I can say is that the whole instant travel thing has a little quirk to it that means it only works for people who travel a lot anyway.
You can only instantly travel to an aetherite you've attuned with, meaning you must have travelled there before, be it on foot, chocobo, carriage or boat!
So anyone who doesn't travel a lot (aka, most of the non-player population) would probably be pretty heavily into their culture.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - LandStander - 07-01-2013

The Roegadyn who have names such as Tall Oak and such are Hellsguard. I think SE said because they usually work as mercenaries and deal with multiple cultures all the time they have ditched more of their native tongue as opposed to the Sea Wolves who still name themselves in the native tongue. But this isn't true of every Roegadyn as some Hellsguard still name themselves in their native tongue; this is just more of a generalization of the two tribes.

I would treat it just like real life though. Armi explained it really well with Japanese culture. I would really just leave it up to the player. I mean after living among all these different races and cultures you would slowly start assimilating and taking bits and parts of all of them and making them your own, but there will be families and people who are traditionalist.

Some examples of how cultures have melded together are people who celebrate Cinco De Mayo, St. Patricks Day, Christmas (who are not Christians) and so on. These are all holidays that stemmed from different cultures and though they are not celebrated as they originally were intended to, the culture at large still reveres these holidays. Heck, I even think Canada has its own version of Thanksgiving.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Torn Sky - 07-01-2013

(07-01-2013, 12:30 AM)LandStander Wrote: The Roegadyn who have names such as Tall Oak and such are Hellsguard.

I just wanted to pop in and say that said NPC in Gridania is most certainly a Sea Wolf going by nose/skin color. I know because I stopped and stared at him this weekend because of that. Haha. Unless it is a mistake, I have seen two different male Sea Wolves so far with translated names.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Black - 07-01-2013

(07-01-2013, 01:14 AM)Torn Sky Wrote:
(07-01-2013, 12:30 AM)LandStander Wrote: The Roegadyn who have names such as Tall Oak and such are Hellsguard.

I just wanted to pop in and say that said NPC in Gridania is most certainly a Sea Wolf going by nose/skin color. I know because I stopped and stared at him this weekend because of that. Haha. Unless it is a mistake, I have seen two different male Sea Wolves so far with translated names.

I didn't comment but I also noticed he had green-tinged skin as well, but I didn't zoom in to double-check. Plus the hour was late and I was tired and the servers announced shut-down shortly after I spied the individual (and others) with similar names.

RE: Culture in Eorzea Discussion. - Orlog - 07-01-2013

(06-28-2013, 09:30 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Fast or instant travel isn't really an issue here, I think, because it's fairly limited--Aetherytes don't exist everywhere

I'd argue against this little bit right here. I can agree that stuff like airships and fairys aren't for everyone, especially if you don't have the means for money, but given what we're shown within the world, there are Aetherytes everywhere. Even if in some areas they're not very close, you usually don't have to travel more than 5 minutes before you hit another one.

I'm not saying that those sort of traditional tribes shouldn't exist, but more that they would be extremely rare and I honestly think that there should be less of an emphasis on it within the RP community. Like, going back to my main example, when a lot of people new to the world of Eorzea and they think of Miqo'te, they usually think about this super traditional tribalism, despite on how low impact it would be on their culture. Eorzea's culture is communal; there's not really a lot of room for there to be these traditionalist pockets, especially not in the wake of a tragedy where the world is trying to put things back together. Some might retreat, but the vast majority would probably come together to make things right again, or at least resemble something normal.