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+--- Thread: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea (/showthread.php?tid=3437)
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - shotgunbadger - 08-10-2013
Don't worry dude you don't have to keep arguing the opposite to 'keep our perspective' us gays know our place. This is far from the first time I've played a game where I can summon the gods themselves to fight for me but kissing a dude, yuck, that's crazy.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Domri Blackblade - 08-10-2013
So, what if you hetero marry then do a sex change.?
By George if I want to marry another female, I will certainly find a loophole!
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Yini Kihn - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 10:40 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I just personally don't see this particular issue as being one worth getting on a soap box for. … I'm only debating this topic to ensure people have perspective and accurate expectations, not because I'm at all against it.
You do realize how patronizing that sounds, right? Forgive me, but your assistance in shaping people's perspectives and expectations isn't needed. I'm well-aware this is an uphill battle and I'm perfectly capable of assigning it the appropriate level of importance in my life.
Quote:Also I'm not sure where you're getting 65%, as of July the total was 55% which was an 11% increase in support for same sex marriage since Obama was elected into office. I highly doubt it jumped another 10% in just a month if it took over a decade to increase by 11%.
Source.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Ashren Dotharl - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 10:59 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: Don't worry dude you don't have to keep arguing the opposite to 'keep our perspective' us gays know our place. This is far from the first time I've played a game where I can summon the gods themselves to fight for me but kissing a dude, yuck, that's crazy.I'm sure that many people who have posted in this thread, or who are a part of this community, are more than capable of keeping their shit together, so to speak, but some people seem to think that just because a handful of people make some noise that it will create any sort of lasting impact.
When the marriage system launches with hetero marriage only it'll create waves no matter what, but if people expect it (or even accept it, no matter how bad it is) that impact will cause less rage and more rational thought when the time for feedback is actually at hand.
If the system launches and the collective LGBT community of FFXIV all rationally band together as best they can to create a singular front then you'll get something done, but if everyone expects things will change just because they want them to or because it makes them angry, then they have these unmerited expectations and a skewed perspective and when the system launches and it's not what they expected, and everyone goes ERMERGERD DEY TERK ER JERBS! and ten thousand threads appear on the lodestone about the same. damn. thing. SE is far less likely to give a rats ass.
@Yini, you're basing your numbers off a single demographic, not the entirety of the US.
2013 Polls
A July 10-14 poll by Gallup found support for gay marriage at 54%, a record high, and double the support of 27% Gallup first measured when the question was asked in 1996.
A July poll by USA Today found that 55% of Americans supported gay marriage while 40% did not.
A May 9 Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 55% of Americans supported gay marriage while 40% did not.
A March 20–24 CBS News Poll found that 53% of Americans supported same-sex marriage, 39% opposed it, and 8% were undecided. The same poll also found that 33% of Americans who thought same-sex couples should be allowed to legally marry said they once held the opposite view and had changed their opinion.
A March 7–10 Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 58% of Americans support same-sex marriage while 36% opposed. The poll indicated that 52% of GOP-leaning independents under 50 years old supported gay marriage.
A March Quinnipiac University poll of voters found 47% supported same-sex marriage and 43% were opposed.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - shotgunbadger - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 11:02 AM)Meia Wrote: So, what if you hetero marry then do a sex change.?
By George if I want to marry another female, I will certainly find a loophole!
Hey woah please respect Japan's culture and understand that transgendered people aren't exactly respected there, so any gender change options should be ignored.
(08-10-2013, 11:06 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote:(08-10-2013, 10:59 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: Don't worry dude you don't have to keep arguing the opposite to 'keep our perspective' us gays know our place. This is far from the first time I've played a game where I can summon the gods themselves to fight for me but kissing a dude, yuck, that's crazy.I'm sure that many people who have posted in this thread, or who are a part of this community, are more than capable of keeping their shit together, so to speak, but some people seem to think that just because a handful of people make some noise that it will create any sort of lasting impact.
When the marriage system launches with hetero marriage only it'll create waves no matter what, but if people expect it (or even accept it, no matter how bad it is) that impact will cause less rage and more rational thought when the time for feedback is actually at hand.
If the system launches and the collective LGBT community of FFXIV all rationally band together as best they can to create a singular front then you'll get something done, but if everyone expects things will change just because they want them to or because it makes them angry, then they have these unmerited expectations and a skewed perspective and when the system launches and it's not what they expected, and everyone goes ERMERGERD DEY TERK ER JERBS! and ten thousand threads appear on the lodestone about the same. damn. thing. SE is far less likely to give a rats ass.
You know what this actually pisses me off more than SE's bull crap.
Thank you sooooooooo much for telling me how to react to this, I absolutely couldn't handle my swirling homo emotions without you here to keep me in perspective. As we all know if a gay ever vents for just five damn minutes about how it sucks that even in fantasy escapism we can't even be equal we're basically stabbing the movement in the back.
Please, please give us permission to have one damn place to go 'man this sucks' without some dude coming in and smugly explaining how if we were more rational everything would be ok.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Yini Kihn - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 11:06 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: @Yini, you're basing your numbers off a single demographic, not the entirety of the US.
Yes, I know. That's why i said exactly that in the post you're complaining about:
(08-10-2013, 10:37 AM)Yini Kihn Wrote: The majority of Americans support same-sex marriage. Amongst those under thirty, 65% support it.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Ashren Dotharl - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 11:07 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote:Before you get on your high horse you should go take a gander at the beta forums and how there are already about 10 threads (not even over exaggerating) on this very subject and how much those threads are accomplishing. It's pretty much just people saying "rawr this sucks" and then 10+ pages of image macros.(08-10-2013, 11:02 AM)Meia Wrote: So, what if you hetero marry then do a sex change.?
By George if I want to marry another female, I will certainly find a loophole!
Hey woah please respect Japan's culture and understand that transgendered people aren't exactly respected there, so any gender change options should be ignored.
(08-10-2013, 11:06 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote:(08-10-2013, 10:59 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: Don't worry dude you don't have to keep arguing the opposite to 'keep our perspective' us gays know our place. This is far from the first time I've played a game where I can summon the gods themselves to fight for me but kissing a dude, yuck, that's crazy.I'm sure that many people who have posted in this thread, or who are a part of this community, are more than capable of keeping their shit together, so to speak, but some people seem to think that just because a handful of people make some noise that it will create any sort of lasting impact.
When the marriage system launches with hetero marriage only it'll create waves no matter what, but if people expect it (or even accept it, no matter how bad it is) that impact will cause less rage and more rational thought when the time for feedback is actually at hand.
If the system launches and the collective LGBT community of FFXIV all rationally band together as best they can to create a singular front then you'll get something done, but if everyone expects things will change just because they want them to or because it makes them angry, then they have these unmerited expectations and a skewed perspective and when the system launches and it's not what they expected, and everyone goes ERMERGERD DEY TERK ER JERBS! and ten thousand threads appear on the lodestone about the same. damn. thing. SE is far less likely to give a rats ass.
You know what this actually pisses me off more than SE's bull crap.
Thank you sooooooooo much for telling me how to react to this, I absolutely couldn't handle my swirling homo emotions without you here to keep me in perspective. As we all know if a gay ever vents for just five damn minutes about how it sucks that even in fantasy escapism we can't even be equal we're basically stabbing the movement in the back.
Please, please give us permission to have one damn place to go 'man this sucks' without some dude coming in and smugly explaining how if we were more rational everything would be ok.
All I'm saying is if you actually, you know, want to accomplish anything it's better to come at this in a unified manner where you'll get the most localized support, though clearly from the responses I've seen from many of the people in this thread, even towards people who share in this disdain of the situation, many of you would rather just rage about it than actually make a difference.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - shotgunbadger - 08-10-2013
And all I'M saying is I'm sick to hell of any LGBT topic ever going:
Most all LGBT people involved just go 'man this sucks' => One or two people takes things a bit further => Straight people come in all "WOAH HOMOS CALM THE HELL DOWN LET'S BE RATIONAL HERE DON'T YOU KNOW NO ONE GIVES A CRAP UNLESS YOU BEHAVE?"
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Ashren Dotharl - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 11:24 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: And all I'M saying is I'm sick to hell of any LGBT topic ever going:I'm pretty sure that's not what I said, but who am I to tell you how to perceive my point? I'll just quote myself and be done with this thread.
Most all LGBT people involved just go 'man this sucks' => One or two people takes things a bit further => Straight people come in all "WOAH HOMOS CALM THE HELL DOWN LET'S BE RATIONAL HERE DON'T YOU KNOW NO ONE GIVES A CRAP UNLESS YOU BEHAVE?"
Ashren Snow Wrote:clearly from the responses I've seen from many of the people in this thread, even towards people who share in this disdain of the situation, many of you would rather just rage about it than actually make a difference.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Domri Blackblade - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 11:24 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: And all I'M saying is I'm sick to hell of any LGBT topic ever going:
Most all LGBT people involved just go 'man this sucks' => One or two people takes things a bit further => Straight people come in all "WOAH HOMOS CALM THE HELL DOWN LET'S BE RATIONAL HERE DON'T YOU KNOW NO ONE GIVES A CRAP UNLESS YOU BEHAVE?"
I am not straight and I advocate rationality. It's like when you have to deal with your in-laws. Kill them with calmness and kindness and you have a chance to get them to hate you less. If you scream and shout and sling curses at them, you come out validating their poor view of you.
I think if we showed them how this could only better the community and were vigilant abut sending the message, making a large voice, we could get through. This screaming ,shouting, and insulting each other isn't going anywhere.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - shotgunbadger - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 11:27 AM)Meia Wrote:(08-10-2013, 11:24 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: And all I'M saying is I'm sick to hell of any LGBT topic ever going:
Most all LGBT people involved just go 'man this sucks' => One or two people takes things a bit further => Straight people come in all "WOAH HOMOS CALM THE HELL DOWN LET'S BE RATIONAL HERE DON'T YOU KNOW NO ONE GIVES A CRAP UNLESS YOU BEHAVE?"
I am not straight and I advocate rationality. It's like when you have to deal with your in-laws. Kill them with calmness and kindness and you have a chance to get them to hate you less. If you scream and shout and sling curses at them, you come out validating their poor view of you.
I think if we showed them how this could only better the community and were vigilant abut sending the message, making a large voice, we could get through. This screaming ,shouting, and insulting each other isn't going anywhere.
My point is we already ARE being rational, we don't need to be told to be like we're a bunch of children. Just because you saw someone make more than one thread about something doesn't mean every gay in FFXIV is kicking and screaming. It's patronizing.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Dubs - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 11:22 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: All I'm saying is if you actually, you know, want to accomplish anything it's better to come at this in a unified manner where you'll get the most localized support, though clearly from the responses I've seen from many of the people in this thread, even towards people who share in this disdain of the situation, many of you would rather just rage about it than actually make a difference.
I agree. If people plan to RP it regardless if the mechanic is implemented what's the point in taking people out of context, pointing fingers, inserting assumptions that lead to hyperbole and ad hominem just to fit the same narrative over and over. It's a broken record. It's just more deconstructive regurgitation of moot points. In the end if you don't like it, don't spend your money. At the same time if you want people to be sympathetic to your cause, lambasting them with insinuations and shaming labels that haven't experienced the intolerance isn't going to do anything to sway them, it's going to turn them off.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Domri Blackblade - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 11:31 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote:(08-10-2013, 11:27 AM)Meia Wrote:(08-10-2013, 11:24 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: And all I'M saying is I'm sick to hell of any LGBT topic ever going:
Most all LGBT people involved just go 'man this sucks' => One or two people takes things a bit further => Straight people come in all "WOAH HOMOS CALM THE HELL DOWN LET'S BE RATIONAL HERE DON'T YOU KNOW NO ONE GIVES A CRAP UNLESS YOU BEHAVE?"
I am not straight and I advocate rationality. It's like when you have to deal with your in-laws. Kill them with calmness and kindness and you have a chance to get them to hate you less. If you scream and shout and sling curses at them, you come out validating their poor view of you.
I think if we showed them how this could only better the community and were vigilant abut sending the message, making a large voice, we could get through. This screaming ,shouting, and insulting each other isn't going anywhere.
My point is we already ARE being rational, we don't need to be told to be like we're a bunch of children. Just because you saw someone make more than one thread about something doesn't mean every gay in FFXIV is kicking and screaming. It's patronizing.
No one was ever making that point, though. I'm pretty sure every time it came up, in this thread at least, it was in response to swearing, yelling, and being rude.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Merri - 08-10-2013
Please, please be civil. While I understand this is a very passionate subject for people, this isn't the place for fighting. Please respect each other, regardless of whether or not you agree with each other.
RE: Arguments For Marriage Equality in Eorzea - Reppu - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 10:55 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: If we're 'respecting Japanese norms' I expect everyone with a female toon will stick to crafting jobs (preferably just cooking) or I GUESS magic as long as it's not too intense and manly too?
Really, you need to be civil, as other people are stating. This sort of hyperbole is what we're trying to prevent.
Or, stereotyping is ludicrous and hypocritical at this juncture. Please.