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R.E.T. Con. - Printable Version

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R.E.T. Con. - LeCard - 08-20-2013

That's right, this is a Conversation about Ruby, Emerald, and Topaz carbuncles.

Quote:"Using the selfsame symbols to unlock the latent power contained within gemstones, arcanists are also able to summon forth the familiar known as Carbuncle to carry out their bidding."


Now the offical site lore says that Arcanist use their spells to unlock powers from within certain gemstones, but did anyone see a reference to this in the game?

I bring this question of lore up because, if the gemstone is not required for the summoning of a carbuncle than I may have to retcon part of my characters story due to his acquiring the needed stone being an integral plot point.

I got through the level 15 class quest in the beta, but I didn't notice any real reference to the stones themselves aside from the naming of the versions of carbuncle. maybe I missed this, maybe I just didn't talk to the right NPCs I don't know, but it does raise the question to me:
"how important is the Gemstone in summoning a Carbuncle? Can an Arcanist perform all of their spells with nothing but a pen and a grimoire as the requirements?"

Anyone else think that the Summoner book would be more appropriate for an arcanist with the Carbuncle gemstone visible?

I want to hear the community's take on this, so fire away.

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Kaiden Albright - 08-20-2013

EDIT:  Misunderstood.  After looking at it again, I think all they would need is their grimoire that contains the symbols of power that they need to cast spells.

Similar to how conjurers would be able to create stone from the aether in the immediate surroundings, I think arcanists would be able to do their magic without needing a gemstone.  They'd just need the symbols.

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Roda - 08-20-2013

Does the reference to gemstones have to be in writing?
Because..
[Image: 47ldq3C.jpg]
:P
I think the actual summoning spells are the only ones that require fancy tools, everything else should be simple enough to perform with only the grimoire.
(Conjuring up a fully functioning life-form is complex, yo!)
(Of course the grimoire wouldn't just be simple paper and ink. The way I visualize their spells working is that the covers hold the brunt of the magic power, but you need a catalyst to actually release that magic stuff.  The paper, ink, and a smidge of your own magic juice are what does that job.  The paper gradually and evenly absorbs the cover's magic at a safe rate (a limiter, if you will). The ink forces the magic stuff from that page to take the shape that is drawn (I assume magic units work kind of like atoms in molecules, in that they like to bond to each other in a certain way depending on how they're provoked.) Depending on the spell, you can just fling the newly made magic structure (and a bit of your own magic juice, to get it going) out of the book and have it attach to your target, or, for the more complex stuff, you will have to run a particularly strong magic conductor (like the hand!) across it to make the magic leave the page.  In the case of summoning, you would need something quite strong to rip the spell from its page, due to the fact that you're materializing a flippin' complex living being that can make decisions and shit!  And since crystals in this game are kind of supercharged magic doohikeys, it would make sense that you would have to use some kind of varient of them for that particular type of spell. Of course, this is just how I interpret it.)

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Gossamer - 08-20-2013

I was also surprised to see no reference to the gemstones in the Arcanist storyline so far, or from any npcs at the guild. But since it's on the official site, that's what I went with for N'klas' backstory. The gem angle is fairly important to him. I wouldn't mind it being at least referenced in-game at some point.

However, as for the question at hand, I think it'd be fine to go either way. Perhaps it could be seen that the whole writing animation is required if the Arcanist doesn't actually have a gemstone on hand to draw from.

My view on Arcanist spellwork is that the power is in the symbols themselves rather than the actual book. The book is just handy, because it contains this vast library of symbols already so the Arcanist doesn't normally need to actively draw them out on the fly in battle. Which could also lead to some fun ideas of maybe larger spellwork (for rp purposes) being possible by actively drawing out large geometric symbols to whatever purpose.

But I do like the idea Roda brought up of the writing out in the grimoires acting as a catalyst. So maybe I'd use that if the person didn't have a gemstone handy for the more complex summoning spell. Or writing out symbols is better for more potent spells. But it's just not something that's usually all that feasible in battle.

That's my personal take on it at least.

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Folken - 08-20-2013

I'm about to kill this thread.

There is no Ruby Carbuncle.

Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

Summon III is Summoner only, and is the Ifrit Egi gained at level 30. There is no carbuncle equivalent.
This is also why Scholar only gets 2 fairies, because they do not get an additional summon spell at 30.

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Quuyn - 08-20-2013

(08-20-2013, 07:13 AM)Shippuu Wrote: I'm about to kill this thread.

There is no Ruby Carbuncle.

...So you're saying you're going to... RETCon it?

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Folken - 08-20-2013

(08-20-2013, 07:14 AM)Koyu Wrote: ...So you're saying you're going to... RETCon it?

It's not really a retcon when it was never correct in the first place Wink

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Aysun - 08-20-2013

(08-20-2013, 07:13 AM)Shippuu Wrote: Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

That surprises me. I also wants to know how you know, with the limit cap being 20! They did show 3 kinds of carbys didn't they? In a letter?

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Kismet - 08-20-2013

(08-20-2013, 07:36 AM)Aysun Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 07:13 AM)Shippuu Wrote: Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

That surprises me. I also wants to know how you know, with the limit cap being 20! They did show 3 kinds of carbys didn't they? In a letter?

Even though the level cap was 20, you could still see all of the skills up to lv50 you'll eventually get for the class you currently are in your Actions & Traits menu. There's also this wiki.

RE: R.E.T. Con. - E'irawen - 08-20-2013

(08-20-2013, 09:09 AM)Kismet Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 07:36 AM)Aysun Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 07:13 AM)Shippuu Wrote: Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

That surprises me. I also wants to know how you know, with the limit cap being 20! They did show 3 kinds of carbys didn't they? In a letter?

Even though the level cap was 20, you could still see all of the skills up to lv50 you'll eventually get for the class you currently are in your Actions & Traits menu. There's also this wiki.

Not to hijack, but I was checking out that link and found myself poking at the Summoner page. Maybe I missed something in one of the newer letters...but I only see the Ifrit Egi on the page? Wasn't there Shiva and others in one of the letter videos?

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Alexis Price - 08-20-2013

I think, when you switch to Summoner, your Summon and Summon II spells change automatically.

The way I always thought of it was Summon would summon Emerald Carbuncle as Arcanist, or Garuda-Egi as Summoner.

Summon II = Topaz Carbuncle as Arcanist or Titan-Egi as Summoner.

And when you switch to Scholar, they just change Summon and Summon II to healer pet and support pet respectively.

That's how I think it's going to work, but don't quote me on that! That's why it says a "caster-type" pet in my opinion and not "Emerald Carbuncle" and the like.

Edit: Ah! If you go to the job pages and look under Pet Actions, you'll see Summoner still has Summon and Summon II. So yeah, I think it's going to work this way.

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Eve Malusion - 08-20-2013

(08-20-2013, 09:33 AM)Kaoru Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 09:09 AM)Kismet Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 07:36 AM)Aysun Wrote:
(08-20-2013, 07:13 AM)Shippuu Wrote: Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

That surprises me. I also wants to know how you know, with the limit cap being 20! They did show 3 kinds of carbys didn't they? In a letter?

Even though the level cap was 20, you could still see all of the skills up to lv50 you'll eventually get for the class you currently are in your Actions & Traits menu. There's also this wiki.

Not to hijack, but I was checking out that link and found myself poking at the Summoner page. Maybe I missed something in one of the newer letters...but I only see the Ifrit Egi on the page? Wasn't there Shiva and others in one of the letter videos?
At launch you're confirmed to only have Ifrit, Titan and Garuda as far as I know, though they said they might add more further down the line. The summoning spells that you use for carbuncles will be used to summon the other 2.

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Kylin - 08-20-2013

(08-20-2013, 09:37 AM)Alexis Price Wrote: I think, when you switch to Summoner, your Summon and Summon II spells change automatically.

The way I always thought of it was Summon would summon Emerald Carbuncle as Arcanist, or Garuda-Egi as Summoner.

Summon II = Topaz Carbuncle as Arcanist or Titan-Egi as Summoner.

I'm not sure how it'll translate into Scholar, though. That's how I think it's going to work, but don't quote me on that! That's why it says a "caster-type" pet in my opinion and not "Emerald Carbuncle" and the like.

This is correct. Summon I and II are still usable on SMN. They just summon Titan and Garuda instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwhCu8J_Y_I

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Ashren Dotharl - 08-20-2013

Just to clarify some things (or emphasize on them since they've already been stated) Arcanist only gets access to Summon (Emerald Carbuncle) and Summon II (Topaz Carbuncle). Summon is considered a Caster Summon, and Summon II is a Tank Summon.

Scholar also only gains access to Summon (Eos), and Summon II (Selene). Summon for Scholar is considered a Healing Summon and Summon II is a Support Summon.

Summoner on the other hand gets access to Summon (Garuda), Summon II (Titan), and Summon III (Ifrit). Summon and Summon II fill the same role as their Arcanist counterparts, while Summon III is a Melee DPS Summon.

During the last Live Letter, Yoshida was asked if there would be anymore Egis and his answer as (unfortunately) no, not until there was a level cap increase. This means we may see Egis for Shiva, Ramuh, Leviathan, and maybe even Odin and Bahamut, but not until an Expansion more than likely.

Quote:Q8: Are there any plans to implement additional egi?

A8: If we were going to implement additional egi, it would be when we raise the level cap.

As far as the original question goes, the storyline for Arcanists is exceedingly lacking in acknowledgement of your ability to Summon Carbuncle, they just sort of say "Good job, you can control your Cosmic Bunny. Come back in five levels." In fact you don't even need to complete the level 15 quest to get access to Summon II, they just give it to you prior to actually doing the quest, primarily because it's a tutorial on how to use the Topaz Carbuncle as a tank.

That being said, within the actual summoning animation itself we see the use of the aforementioned crystals, so it's safe to assume even if the quests don't mention them the game still shows them being used.

RE: R.E.T. Con. - Alexis Price - 08-20-2013

Oops! In that reply I totally forgot to even relate back to the original post!

I'll just echo what Ashren is saying and point to Roda's picture!

It might not be mentioned but the casting animation is different and just provide a visual on the gemstones. I guess that might be the only 'support' of it being in the game. But as the class information was released by Square Enix I wouldn't say you have to 'retcon' it, really. It's still shown in the game!

Whether everyone will go the same route is a different question, but I've already noticed quite a few people have creative stories about their Carbuncle.

But personally I feel like it's all fine going with the gem is needed, myself! Smile