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+---- Thread: On Community (/showthread.php?tid=5814)
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On Community - Ninian Lune'ciel - 12-16-2013
Hello, Gilgamesh. While the event threads might not be the appropriate place for the discussion I am looking to facilitate, the state of the other posts on the 'Gilgamesh Events' is my reason for writing.
Gilgamesh is full of roleplayers, but recently I've been concerned with the state community. Events and happenings posted on the Coalition are by no means the only methods of roleplaying, but looking at the listed events of the site reveals only two in-character events since October.
There is nothing wrong with hosting a shared story between friends and guildmates, nor remaining entirely outside of these types of roleplay all together, but I believe we our denying ourselves of a better experience.
What I want to propose, or at least discuss, is what we as a server can do to strengthen the community as a whole.
This thread is open to ideas, but this is mine: I believe we need elements of public and consistent roleplay. Concepts such as player run taverns/restaurants/combat arenas/city guards/ or any type of service fall into this category. They are establishments that do not need to be key elements in a character's individual roleplay, but add to the greater community.
The issue with these types of roleplay typically face are the amount of player input and responsibility in not only starting, but maintaining these establishments. Fortunately, it is possible to create many of these types of roleplay with relatively small numbers of peoples who operate on a schedule.
While I do not have a great deal of time to run these sorts of events with my personal life, I want to see if there are others willing to create small teams and form ideas for these types of 'public' communal roleplay.
RE: On Community - Trigonxv - 12-16-2013
I cant say for sure but seeing as the activity slowed down soon after october, to me it at least points to that ppl got flooded with holiday season duties. Not to say ppl had no time when the holiday season came by but downtime does dwindle between familiy parties/gatherings, all the shopping and not to mention that depending on peoples work life they sometimes get overloaded with work during this season, i know i did and it was a pain
. Again while i cant really say this for sure i think activity will pick up on all fronts once the holiday season is over
RE: On Community - Ninian Lune'ciel - 12-16-2013
(12-16-2013, 10:12 AM)Trigonxv Wrote: I cant say for sure but seeing as the activity slowed down soon after october, to me it at least points to that ppl got flooded with holiday season duties. Not to say ppl had no time when the holiday season came by but downtime does dwindle between familiy parties/gatherings, all the shopping and not to mention that depending on peoples work life they sometimes get overloaded with work during this season, i know i did and it was a pain
Ah, I understand people being busy and how those active seasons can affect a person's login time, but this post is about the lack of consistent events as a whole. The reason why there are so few is because there aren't many people actively trying to host things, let alone with the drive to undertake a project that might have a weekly or bi-weekly occurrence.
I would like to ask some of the larger Free Companies if small groups of their members would be interested in hosting these types of things, but that line of questioning is pushy and abrasive (the poison of roleplay)
RE: On Community - Enzo - 12-16-2013
It is my dream to one day host fancy parties to all the ladies and gents of Eorzea. In my present state I cannot do so now. But one day I will! And I will host a party every week! Fun! If someone were to make an IC tavern/bar of their own I would definitely use it. Maybe even make it my favorite spot for drinks. I almost want to start one but I feel things will need to settle down for my character if I ever do. I agree that we need more events even if its just a random post saying "Drinks at Costa Del Sol will be a quarter off this day! Everyone should go!" Maybe come up with discounts for different areas each day for more RPers to be spending time at. Just an idea.
RE: On Community - Gideon Aryeh - 12-17-2013
Things will pick up after the new year, there are two events coming up that are posted on the calendar so please attend both and while many of us who do host events got tied down I would also ask those who are wishing to see more events to host their own as well. People have to set aside free time like anyone else and while I know it may be hard to do them just think about the fact that many of us including myself also are quite busy. Hell I have terrible work hours but I've run events on my day off and scheduled them far ahead of time to make sure that my schedule for the day is free. It just takes some planning.
I myself got hit with several things at once. I will be resuming events for sure but I would also like others who want to see them to step up. This is indeed the time. Waiting for the same folk to do the events helps nobody in the long run, but for every person who makes an attempt well that's better for everyone.
You don't need to hold an all day event a two hour event is sometimes is enough and it could be little more than story time or ic questing so that you don't have to quest alone. One of the things about being on Gilgamesh is that we all have to be a bit more aggressive since we are the newer server for roleplay and have the smaller population. I'm not saying this to be a bad person I am saying this as fact. But I also think it opens up more opportunities because it allows so much room in trying new things. I know sometimes its easier to wait for others to do things because we are busy, but if we truly want to help a community we sometimes have to brush ourselves off and get things started on our own and garner support by taking a leadership role, even if its just for a second. As I mentioned to many before launch Gilgamesh needs more leaders than anything and the more the merrier. Please I implore you to take the initiative. The more that we have -doing- instead of -waiting for others to do- is better for everyone.
Want to see more events? Well please contribute and help get them started, again they do not have to be anything complex. It takes no time to organize ic dungeon runs or pve questing, or even with the advent of 2.1 ic pvp fights at the Wolves Den.
If you need help or support then just hit me up in game or send me a mail and just ask it can even be done here.
RE: On Community - Ninian Lune'ciel - 12-17-2013
There's no need to think you're a bad person. Everything you've said is completely true. I'm just not positive that our server is going to be picking up any time soon. Already, I know a lot of people have moved over to Balmung. Even a RP FC or two. It's even to the point where new players are either heading straight for it or trying Gilgamesh for a bit before realizing it doesn't have the same community dynamic.
There will be new people certainly, but my concern is that out server is going to dwindle into nothing but the player's we have, because I don't think we're attracting many new ones.
After reading through everyone's comments. I think I was a little off in saying we needed 'events' in my previous posts. I'm not sure what to call them, Balmung's biweekly Grindstone Tournaments are the sort of model I'm looking for. It's an event simple enough to only take a few people to run and easy to create a consistent schedule, open to the whole server. Twice a week, they have people there to roleplay as fighters or spectators, the rest of the week the fighter's are able to roleplay training.
It's more than just a common 'event' at the point because it brings something to the community that player's don't even have to check the forums for. Simply because they've integrated that event into the regular happenings of their world.
There isn't a single person obligated to run anything like this, but it only takes a few small projects like this to change the entire way we, as a community, use our server.
I'm actually glad you decided to read this, Amaare. I was hoping someone from Drift would. You guys have such great potential to pioneer these exact types of projects in considering the company's recognition, size and certainly no shortage on people willing to roleplay. If even a few volunteers broke into groups and figured out an idea to fit the same criteria as the Grindstone model I was talking about, it could improve the quality of everyone's Gilgamesh.
The last thing I want to seem is abrasive in any of this, but I really do believe our lack of growth since launch is something concerning for the future.
RE: On Community - Magellan - 12-17-2013
If you look at the recent 'cleaning' the moderators of this site did of the linkshell hall, 61% of Gilgamesh's Linkshells/FC's were declared inactive.
That's rough to say the least.
And yet, some of the initial fears that caused rpers to seek out a non-legacy server in the first place have transpired (hello, cost of FC housing on Balmung)
Maybe after the holidays, things will pick up. 2.1 might bring people back, and/or bring in fresh blood.
RE: On Community - Gideon Aryeh - 12-17-2013
The thing is we are getting fresh blood, but like many of us who are fresh blood they also have to jump in running to get things started. Don't wait for other people to get things started, don't say "WoW you guys would be great at getting things started!"
-You- meaning you Ms Wallflower, get something started that fits into what you want to see. I've always told people that on Gilgamesh the thing is that we, meaning -everyone- and each and -everyone- has to put in the work to get things started, otherwise it just won't work.
I always find it an interesting conundrum when rpers don't want other people dictating what they want to do but yet won't stand out in the front to make things happen themselves.
Be the change that -you- want to see, never wait for anyone else to do it, also there are guilds running internal events right now. Many of us knew going in that we had to be the ones that got things started because there is nobody else but us.
Now the question is Ms. Wallflower are -YOU- going to start up what you want to see or keep waiting for others to do it?
"Here's what I want to see" does not help Gilgamesh, its "Here's what I want to do"
RE: On Community - Ninian Lune'ciel - 12-17-2013
(12-17-2013, 11:40 AM)Magellan Wrote: If you look at the recent 'cleaning' the moderators of this site did of the linkshell hall, 61% of Gilgamesh's Linkshells/FC's were declared inactive.
That's rough to say the least.
And yet, some of the initial fears that caused rpers to seek out a non-legacy server in the first place have transpired (hello, cost of FC housing on Balmung)
Maybe after the holidays, things will pick up. 2.1 might bring people back, and/or bring in fresh blood.
One of my points exactly, Magellan. Or at least a part of the reason I decided to make this post. Most people who come to Balmung or Gilgamesh to roleplay do so because they were looking into FFXIV roleplay and found the Coalition.
From a new player's perspective, the server with the greater population and more active community is going to have the greater appeal. Not to mention it is no secret that Balmung has more activity simply by perusing the forums.
I will say.. I do sympathize with the cost of Balmung housing though, now that 2.1 is live -.-
I'm really hoping people realize the kind of position this will eventually put the Gilgamesh community in. I'm worried that it's not something that will be eased much by the holidays coming or going as people have speculated.
I have a limited time to play and my character isn't experienced enough from an IC standpoint to take charge of much at this point. Regardless, I want to help in any way I can to make any future projects on our server not only a success, but something that truly creates 'community'.
Edit: In regards to your response, Amaare, which I hadn't been posted at the time of writing this original, I hope you don't misunderstand this topic as an attack on the community as is. Especially considering the number of events you've helped and hosted since the beginning. The purpose of my writing this topic is because we are all apart of the community as defined by this Coalition and our problems are address everyone.
I am not trying to start anything alone because we have a community to discuss the issues and solutions to them, and I would certainly not hope to seem like I am 'dictating' any change. What I am suggesting is actually a selfish thing: I want to roleplay in a stronger community. Still, I hope you understand that I'm willing to work towards it.
RE: On Community - Ninian Lune'ciel - 12-17-2013
(Accidental Double Post)
RE: On Community - Talathar Khalynn - 12-19-2013
Discussion is good. Dialogue is good. Sharing thoughts and ideas is good.
While I understand your feelings, in my humble opinion, character level or inexperience does not dictate your ability to shape the RP community to be what you want. You can be level 5 and still have a positive effect on the RP scene. And although I admit that not all Gilgameshers (...is that a word...?) Are the most active posters on this forum, that doesn't necessarily mean all of us RPers have jumped ship!
Everyone who contributes to the RP scene in any way helps build the RP community. But not everyone contributes the same way, and not everyone necessarily wants to build the community in the same way. Viewpoints differ, and that’s okay! We’re all different, and while our ideas may clash a bit, I think we can all agree that more RP overall is a good direction to go.
Big events that involve a lot of people are usually a lot of fun, but they also always require a lot of work to set up and prepare for. There’s planning involved, volunteers needed to get the word out, volunteers to help organize, volunteers to keep people engaged and orderly during the event. Even when things don’t seem to involve a lot of work on the surface, the organizers behind the scenes have put in their time to make sure everything runs smoothly. Even smaller events can take time to organize and run.
It’s like tabletop RP -- for most players, you just have to show up with your characters sheets and dice (and maybe some snacks and soda), and you can have a good time. For the Game Masters (or Dungeon Masters) -- they probably spent at least a few hours (or days) thinking up plotlines, planning encounters, preparing maps, and all sorts of other nefarious things for the players to encounter. It’s fun for all involved (usually, anyway), but even so, it’s a lot of preparation.
The wonderful thing about RPing in an MMORPG is that each of us has the ability to take charge, and make RP happen. Big RP events are fun, but smaller RP encounters can be fun as well. A lot of us intentionally will RP in /say in public places BECAUSE we want other RPers to become involved. A lot of RPers have the tag “Roleplayer†in their /search info, so we can be identified by other RPers. And if a group of RPers seem to be having some serious RP going on, and you’re not sure if you can join in, you can always send one of them a /tell to OOC’ly ask if it’s okay for you to take part. Often you will be invited in and welcomed -- it never hurts to ask!
In short, I think everyone wants to have a stronger community on the server. But the question is, are we all willing to put in the effort to MAKE the community stronger? Because waiting for the RP to come to you isn't going to help improve the situation any. Taking action will.
Just one small lala's little opinion. Your mileage may vary.
Have fun out there, folks.
RE: On Community - Ninian Lune'ciel - 12-19-2013
Talathar, you're absolutely right when you say everyone has their own way of adding to the community. The only way to have any sense of one is to have that sort of multitude. I'm not sure where the part about character level or inexperience was from, but I can fully agree on differing viewpoints being an essential part of the process.
So let me share with you all another rp experience I've had. One that I, perhaps unfairly, try to hold all of my rp standards to.
In another MMO I've played, there was a city of where every person you would see was a roleplayer. From just that, all kinds of interesting bits of roleplay were created. Their was a 'police' force of knights who would patrol the streets, a newspaper of the city's weekly happenings (incredibly run by three people), Taverns and restaurants that offered both IC and OOC services for in-game food, an academy for training mages and even a sort of religious organization that would provide sermons and medical services and a council of all of the major organizations to keep dialogue open.
Even if a person wasn't apart of any of these organization, they could still be a part of your character. If you were in trouble, you could report it to the Knight's Headquarters or if you wanted to know what was happening in the world, you could find someone distributing papers or switch on the IC radio news broadcast.
There was a complex criminal underworld because we had law enforcement. We had a newspaper because there was constant roleplay worth reporting on. Big events were fun like you said, Talathar, but every day was made up of small ones. Hard work went into all of these efforts, and as a mass of roleplayers, there were certain struggles, but there really was a living community.
The key is in self-sustainability. It was difficult to organize the types of trials and trainings of the Knights (An example I refer to because I was involved and know it's structure well), but once it was in place, the organization ran itself. It gave player's within the organization direction while giving player's outside a service (or an enemy for all of those villainous types, but that was just all roleplay).
FFXIV is a different game and some of the factors that went into the examples above wouldn't apply, but that doesn't mean we can't hold our roleplay in a higher regard than the common interactions or occasional one-time events we know.
I don't need to play on Balmung to know that they have at least some of these types of events. I love our server, but I want more for it. If this isn't the type of experience people want, than I'll stop trying to encourage it. Otherwise, it only takes a few small and dedicated groups to get this sort of thing off the ground.
RE: On Community - Talathar Khalynn - 12-19-2013
Level/Inexperienced comment comes from here:
(12-17-2013, 12:26 PM)Ninian Luneciel Wrote: I have a limited time to play and my character isn't experienced enough from an IC standpoint to take charge of much at this point. Regardless, I want to help in any way I can to make any future projects on our server not only a success, but something that truly creates 'community'.
If you're looking to help build up more roleplay on Gilgamesh through in-game organizations and establishments, I'm sure you could find others willing help. But someone has to have the vision. Someone has to have an idea of how they want an organization to go, and what role it should play. And honestly, the best way to effect change is to BE the agent of that change.
You mentioned in-game organizations, like the knight's order you helped to form in another game. Is that something you want to emulate here? Maybe there are some folks who would like to join something like that. Would it be a Free Company type of ogranization? Or something with a looser organization? Would you limit membership to Paladin and Warrior types, or would you have members from other class/jobs also? Maybe you can post a few ideas for forming such a group, and see who joins in the discussion.
Or for character-run taverns or shops -- what type of shops were you thinking of? Just your run-of-the-mill tavern? High class restaurant? Trinkets and baubles? Or were you thinking some kind of weekly/monthly open market kind of thing?
Give us some solid ideas, and see if there's interest in those ideas.
Also, I apologize if I seem kind of confrontational. I don't mean to be, but I admit I tend to get defensive with posts calling on others to "do something" about roleplay. It was a phrase I heard a lot of in World of Warcraft.
In the early days of the game, the roleplayers on the server I played on built up a community together. Guilds of like-minded characters banded together, formed alliances and rivalries, forged friendships and relationships, fell prey to pettiness and hatred, and all the good things that come with roleplay. We had one encompassing storyline, started by one man preaching peace, which grew to involve the major roleplayers on both sides of the field teaming up together against a common foe, in a massive RP battle that was staged on IRC and I believe took 3 nights to play out.
But time passed, and people changed. Some RPers found themselves with less time to play, or became more interested in raid progression, or lost interest in the game. More non-roleplayers joined the server as well, changing the landscape in a sense. And a lot of roleplayers started lamenting the "death of roleplay" on the server.
But one thing I did notice is that those who complained the most about roleplay being dead on the server were the ones sitting back and waiting for the roleplay to come to them. Or critiqued the events that others put together, never putting in the effort themselves.
The thing is, roleplay didn't "die" on the server. It was still there, everyday, all around. It still IS there, even now -- I have friends who are active and unapologetic roleplayers there still today. Roleplay is there for them, because they make the roleplay happen. They organize events, have weekly gatherings at pubs or "story circles" out on the plains. They have yearly galas, where everyone on the server is invited. They write story posts of their adventures, or of events that happened in game, or even behind-the-scenes stuff that their characters' lives that no one in-game sees. Heck a group of players set up (and maintain) a social media-type community just for our old server, just so players can keep in touch and share their stories.
Roleplay is what you make of it.
Take care, and have fun.
EDIT: I'm not trying to discourage discussion, or discourage the promotion of new organizations and events. I'm more objecting to a passive tone I'm inferring, which may be just me, and not intended. Change is possible, and can be good. But I still believe that to make a change, you have to drive it, not sit back and let someone else do the work.
RE: On Community - Ninian Lune'ciel - 12-19-2013
Since creating this topic, there have been a lot of insightful truths into what roleplay is and what all of us are trying to create. With that said, I've been hoping to turn the focus back towards the original purpose of the thread and less on myself. I haven't been taking any of the personal comments as offensive or off base, so there is no need for all of those whom have asked me not to to worry.
Despite my wishes of not taking an IC role in founding any organizations at the present moment for the sake of not breaking character (not a question of in-game experience or level, Talathar, but the fact that my character is young and has a sister to look out for), I have stated in multiple posts my intentions of being fully involved in whatever projects require planning or support of any kind. I have not only ideas, but the process in which they may be brought about.
People have told me that we need more leaders and that I shouldn't be passive, but that has been the entire purpose of posting on this forum. I've been trying to keep myself in the background because I don't want to seem pushy, abrasive or as if I'm trying to dictate the direction of the community.
So please, before anyone else posts anything off topic, please consider the purpose of this thread. From this point, I would like to minimize my presence in this topic as much as possible and focus on the issue. Anyone who does not, please send me a private message and we can move that discussion elsewhere.
Talathar, in regards to your question, I would say I am moreso trying to emulate the structure of those Knights than the actual organization, but that type of rolepaly is very doable. With Limsa being one of the more rp-friendly spots, it could easily be done with an organization such as the Yellow Jackets (especially considering how easy it would be to reconstruct the uniform and the fact that they have an in-game headquarters in the Coral Tower)
The organization would likely have be a linkshell, being simply more flexible with admissions compared to FCs. Admission would probably be towards every class type with some sort of pretext of "Open to anyone who wishes to serve and protect". From here, it comes to gathering a few people join, even part time, to take place in training, patrol, etc that would be organized ahead of time.
For characters involved, it gives people something to play out, both on duty and off. Even outside of "Yellow Jacket Roleplay", the organization would become a tool usable in other's roleplays, whether planned or impromptu. There are some fine details to work out, such as how members would be expected to interact with others (largely about being open and understanding on an OOC level) but this is all just an example.
RE: On Community - Enzo - 12-21-2013
Yellow Jackets guard. I would make a whole new character and participate in it if it were to exist. I do not feel I could devote all my time to it sense I play 2 other characters as well. But I am perfectly willing to getting involved in starting one and maintaining one long enough for someone more capable to take the Reins. Just give me the specifics of what I need to do and I will do it.