+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Final Fantasy 14 (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=41)
+--- Forum: FFXIV Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+--- Thread: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior (/showthread.php?tid=6553)
Pages:
1
2
RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Steel Wolf - 03-04-2014
So I've been mixing things up, after becoming absolutely disenfranchised with playing a Paladin...and right now my main squeezes in-game alternate between Lancer and Marauder. I just struck 25 with the axe-swinging me, and I really REALLY enjoy it. There's a sense of being a juggernaut that was just not there while I was running around Flashing people and going SWISH SWOSH SWISH SWOSH SWOOOSH!
It's looking more and more that my second-ever job will be Warrior. Thus, I'd like to pick the brains of my RPC homies about the Job.
Basically, I'm just curious about the whole thing and would like to set reasonable expectations for myself. Is this sense of outright assault prevalent in the Warrior's tanking style? Are Warrior tanks more desireable? Does it matter? And what about elder game content--are PLDs still the primary focused class? What sort of skills should be carried over and matched up to provide effectiveness?
This really is just a catch-all discussion about the class and how it operates. I'd love to hear the opnions of folks here. Thanks! :3
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Ildur - 03-04-2014
It's been a while since I did any content in this game with my tanks, but I remmeber this: Paladins are better at mitigation of damage thanks to Shield Oath and their rotation is really simple (spam the aggro rotation); Warriors have lots of health, they are better at handling groups of mobs, and they have two skill combos: the aggro one and the debuff one. You want to keep aggro, but you also want to keep Storm Path's debuff on the boss.
Their Defiance mechanic is also a pretty interesting thing once you get Infuriate (which gives you 5 stacks of Wrath instantly), but that's at level 50. Until then, you want to keep all those stacks with you. Actually, you want those stacks all the time after, too, but you can use Infuriate right after depleting your Wrath in any of the other Wrath-based skills (Unchained is pretty good for recovering aggro, for example).
I have no idea how Warriors work on the raiding scene, since I do not raid at all. But I think Marauders might be better suited for off-tanking. That lets them apply the debuffs from Storm's Eye/Path without having to worry about pulling aggro.
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Merri - 03-04-2014
Warrior is just as viable as Paladin in endgame content. Warrior also brings many valuable things to the table, and mixes up your party composition as to not prevent proper LB building.
Our group generally runs WAR(Myself), PLD, WHM, SCH, BLM, BLM, BRD, DRG. Only turn we mix that up on is 2, as I go MNK, one of the healers goes PLD, and one of the BLM goes healer. Anyways.
If I had to pin the biggest perk of Warrior, it'd be Storm's Path. A passive 10% damage reduction on enemies is a damn-near must have for late endgame. When I'm tanking Twintania, it means instead of being hit for 8k by that Death Sentence before CDs, it's only gonna slap me for 7.2, and that could very well save my life.
That being said, Paladin and Warrior play significantly different. Warrior does do a decent chunk more damage than Paladin, and there is a sort of rotation to optimize, even when tanking. This post would be much longer than I'd like it to be if I started to get into rotations and the like, though, so I'll save that.
Paladin is very much reactive. You have set cooldowns, and you use them appropriately. That's it. Warrior, on the other hand, is much more proactive. You work to sort of control when your CDs will be ready (Namely inner beast, as it's your main defensive CD), and use them at the appropriate timing as to make use of IB's short uptime.
Hands down, Warrior is more difficult to play. Paladin you just do your 1-2-3 and cycle cooldowns. Warrior has a bit more management to it, which is why I enjoy it more.
It's a tiny bit sped up, but here's a video of a Twintania kill from my Warrior's perspective. Just to sort of give an example of what late game Warrior gameplay looks like. While I won't disagree with the "OT" mindset, as I do OT for half of the fight, I do actually end up MTing her at the end for our strat because of a handful of reasons. Namely letting our PLD run off to stunlock dreadnaughts.
[youtube]uDVuYMfCKko[/youtube]
I've a mess of other warrior PoV videos on my channel, but I figure that about covers it for the most part. Warrior is the funner tank IMO, and while harder to play, is 100% viable in tanking anything. If a Warrior can tank the hardest boss in the game without issue, well, that about sums up it's viability. :>
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Gar - 03-04-2014
I had a big long response typed up, but then I read Merri's and decided to start over.
In a nutshell, he's got it right. Warriors are viable for anything, you just have to put the work into knowing what you're doing. I hate to say it, but most times we get a PUG Warrior, my group groans. Its really easy to be a bad one, but being a good one is a beautiful thing.
Having both a Paladin and a Warrior in a party really lets them synergize. I, personally, will always love Paladin. I don't find the fun of tanking in combos, but being an effective tank and keeping the battle running how I want.
I will always truly believe Warrior was made to be an Off-Tank. And that's not a bad thing. Its for that reason that the two classes can merge together well.
You're on the right track, though. You're asking questions about your class. Know your stuff, and you'll be just fine swinging that big 'ol axe around.
Have fun!
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Sounsyy - 03-04-2014
I back what Merri said 100%. WAR is fully viable in endgame. I actually swap back and forth between my pld and war in coil. I cant really give you a better response right now (at work) but if you'd like to learn more about war feel free to check out my WAR guide in my signature or drop me a message any time if you have questions! =]
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Xydane - 03-04-2014
Just cleave shit.
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. xD Though I agree with everyone here 100%.
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Steel Wolf - 03-04-2014
So far so tasty, info-wise. I like where this discussion is going. :3
I should probably note that I have not done anything raid-y in this game yet, so a lot of the mechanics illustrated regarding Coil or CT or anything else might as well be in heiroglyphics. That said, reading the whole thing was reassuring to know that Warriors are not an excluded from latter game stuff.
I would not be against hearing rotation information, just as a primer. I tend to learn by doing, of course, but some preliminary information would not be a terrible thing just to set myself up to succeed instead of fail. :3
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - SunKittyEm - 03-04-2014
For cross-class skills, WAR has access to GLA's cross-class list, which is really helpful, namely in the form of Flash and Provoke. It also draws from... Lancer? I believe it's lancer. So you can nab that Keen Flurry for a minor defensive bonus.Â
Unfortunately, Defiance DOES hit your dps - but at the same time you've got a cooldown that pretty much says "Defiance doesn't hurt your dps for a while"Â
I don't play Warrior, so that's about all I can offer for insight. Those who do and do it well (like Merri up there) would be better suited, but I thought I'd toss my two cents in and answer something I didn't see others answer yet ^^
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Gar - 03-04-2014
Warrior pulls from Gladiator and Pugilist. Provoke, if anything, is a mandatory cross-class. A lot of content requires you to either pull hate, or swap tanks which requires Provoke.
Warriors basically have three combos: Heavy Swing>Skull Sunder>Butcher's Block (Enmity) Heavy Swing>Maim>Storm's Path (Lowers target's damage output) Heavy Swing>Maim>Storm's Eye (Lowers slashing resistance and healing)
Its because Warriors don't HAVE to build enmity that sometimes you find Warriors with aggro issues. I suggest getting more intimate knowledge from those here who endgame Warriors more than I do, I just wanted to give you a couple basics.
General rule of thumb, start out with Butcher's Block combo so you know that no one's going to pull off you. Once you have enough aggro, then you can play with the others. Lowering their damage output takes priority since you don't want to take damage, but if you have the time Storm's Eye can be nice since your self-heals will do more. (Bloodbath, Inner Beast, etc)
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Sounsyy - 03-05-2014
(03-04-2014, 01:53 PM)Steel Wolf Wrote: I would not be against hearing rotation information, just as a primer. I tend to learn by doing, of course, but some preliminary information would not be a terrible thing just to set myself up to succeed instead of fail. :3
Merri did a good job of this, but I'll try to break down WAR and it's rotations as simply as I can.Â
First off, my five(six) recommended cross-class abilities for WAR are:Â
-Flash (GLA 8) - Helps aoe enmity build. Uses mp instead of tp, so you can use Flash as a substitute for Overpower to alleviate strain on tp.
-Convalescence (GLA 10) - Grants 20% extra healing potency for all healing spells cast on you. This will temporarily double your native 20% healing potency increase that comes from having defiance up.
-Provoke (GLA 22) - Useful for tank swapping and if you are way behind on enmity and you need to catch up instantly.
-Second Wind (PGL 8) - It's an extra free self heal. You may need this to help your healer bounce you back after you've taken a lot of damage. This heal's potency increases with your attack power, so comboing this with berserk is very effective.
-Internal Release (PGL 12) - Increases your critical hit rate by 10%. Combo this with Infuriated status (5 stacks of Wrath) and that's +20% crit rate.
An alternate useful cross class skill would be Awareness (GLA 34). This ability nullifies your chance to taking a critical hit for 25 seconds. Pretty useful for WAR considering they have low passive mitigation and their survivability is HP based. I'd say swap this skill in in place of Flash if you find you aren't having trouble holding hate.
________________
Now that that's out of the way. Rotations for WAR are pretty simple. You have 3 combo trees. The first increases your enmity, the second decreases damage done against you, and the third increases your damage dealt.
[1]Enmity: Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block
[2]Defense: Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Path
[3]Damage: Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye
If you are tanking, the combo you want to start off using is your enmity rotation. Your number one priority as a WAR tank is making sure you're solid on enmity, which isn't all that hard on WAR honestly. So you'll go in and get aggro with Tomahawk and then secure AoE hate on the enemy party with an Overpower or two depending on the strength of your party. Then you'll want to do at least one Butcher's Block combo on each of the attacking mobs before swapping to your other combos.Â
Once you have hate secured, your next combo really depends on what your situation calls for. If you're taking a lot of damage, you'll probably want to start off with your Storm's Path combo and take 10% dmg off of your enemy's attacks. This is one of WAR's greatest utilities. If you're not taking too much damage, then it's time to start dishing out more damage. This is when you go into your Storm's Eye combo and start going slightly more dps mode. Can also pop your damage buffs and Fracture here to really get a good burn phase. However, if you can't get ahead in the enmity race, you may never make it past using your Butcher's Block combo.
After that, it's all about managing your Wrath stacks. You get Wrath stacks from using certain abilities and combos. Once you have 5 stacks of Wrath, you become "infuriated" and can use your WAR specific abilities. You have three abilities tied to Wrath and they can kind of be broken down into the same categories as your combo trees.
[1] Enmity: Steel Cyclone - This is one of your AoE hate abilities. Great for quickly gaining enmity on mobs quickly and for a medium AoE burst of damage.
[2] Defense: Inner Beast - Inner Beast gives you 20% dmg mitigation for 6s in addition to healing yourself for the amount of damage you hit for. The defensive buff is not a long time, so you'll want to save this ability for when you're about to take a big hit. In early game, this won't be as apparent so you'll probably just use this for when you are taking a lot of damage from a lot of enemies at once.
[3] Damage: Unchained - Removes the dmg reduction from your Defiance buff for 20s. You can hit some really high damage numbers when you pop this with your other damage buffs and combo.Â
Alternatively, you don't have to use any of these three abilities and you can just keep yourself at 5 Stacks of Wrath until you need one of them. Having the 5 stacks just sitting there increases your crit rate by 10%. So that can be helpful when dpsing or tanking.
Hope that helps! ^^
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Ildur - 03-05-2014
Another skill you get is Infuriate at level 50. This gives you 5 stacks of Wrath instantly (or...well...kinda-sorta instantly because Squee's "instant" abilities are weird). So you can use one of the three skills mentioned above by Sounsyy and then pop Infuriate.
I am a bit rusty, but I remember each stack of Wrath also increases the ammount of healing your receive. That is the main reason to havethe stack at 5 all the time. Unless Squee changed that in one of the patches and I missed it, which would not be surprising given my attention span.
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Steel Wolf - 03-05-2014
This has been SUPREMELY helpful. I am only halfway to 26, so Butcher's Block hasn't been handed to me just yet, but it has given me some tools to get ready for the rotations and things to come.Â
Sounds like it's a lot more intense than PLD tanking...I'd be lying if I said I'm not a little apprehensive, but I'll give it a chop.
Hurr hurr.
I suppose the best thing to do now is hop into the DF a few times and get used to the rotations. I've already had three or five runs through of Thousand Maws, but a little more practice would not be an entirely terrible thing as combos pile on.
Thanks again, RPC!! <3
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Merri - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 01:00 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:(03-04-2014, 01:53 PM)Steel Wolf Wrote: I would not be against hearing rotation information, just as a primer. I tend to learn by doing, of course, but some preliminary information would not be a terrible thing just to set myself up to succeed instead of fail. :3
-Second Wind (PGL 8) - It's an extra free self heal. You may need this to help your healer bounce you back after you've taken a lot of damage. This heal's potency increases with your attack power, so comboing this with berserk is very effective.
Personally, I opt to go with Featherfoot as opposed to SW. It's another viable option and ultimately has higher returns in my experience. Rather, flat out evading a 2k plummet is significantly more important to me than a 500~800 heal. Of course, it's value naturally only goes up in late endgame when you're being hit for 1-2k on white swings, and 6-7k+ on abilities like death sentence.
That being said, Sounssy covered the just of it. I'll get down into how I specifically play my Warrior. Keep in mind, lots of people have different play styles that work. This is merely how I go about it, and it definitely works for me.
Most important thing, in my opinion, is learning the fight and how far you can push it in relation to your DPS. This is easier with a static, as you learn your fellow players and their limits, but it isn't impossible otherwise. Some fights also bring TP constraints into the equation, and while a Bard can help alleviate this, I prefer to manage my TP myself so they aren't stuck with the -20% damage debuff. This is doubly important on fights like Twintania where you have a hard enrage. That fight is so perfectly tuned that you generally have 20-50 seconds to spare at the end unless you're really pushing it.
Like for me, I know how far I need to push my butcher's block combo before I can start mixing in storm's path and eye. Even then, it's easy to feel when some one is sneaking up on you. So generally, I have two modes.
One is when I'm MT. Run through your butcher's block until you feel safe, start applying storm's path and eye, priority on path. Some bosses don't really have any hard hitting attacks of note, so I'll blow my wrath as I get it. Twintania is really the only fight that I'll specifically save my Inner Beast, as it's infinitely helpful for not getting 1-shot by a death sentence + plummet combo. Being able to control when this is up honestly makes me feel more comfortable tanking her on Warrior than on Paladin. I can always have a defensive cooldown up for it, given it's recast timer.
This is a universal tip, as it applies to every single class and job, but use your buffs off the GCD (Global cooldown). Things like internal release, bloodbath, vengeance, infuriate-- anything that isn't an attack, can be used between GCDs. It doesn't trigger one, which means you should try and sneak them in-between as to maximize your output. You can see this in any of my videos, if you need reference. Simple enough concept, though, I figure.
My other mode is OT. Depending on the fight (and whether or not I'm managing a lot of adds), I'll simply drop defiance entirely. It has a -25% damage penalty, so when you're not tanking any enemies it's not really worth having up. There's a good example of this in the Twintania video, where I just drop Defiance entirely and go about a DD rotation to push as much damage on her and the conflags as possible, seeing as I tank literally nothing until the following phase.
So, when you're basically "DDing", you'll want to keep storm's path and eye applied and refreshed. Otherwise, run your butcher's block combo, as it is your hardest hitting chain.
I'll wrap this post up again, as I don't want to wind up with a monster of a read. Covered most points I wanted to. I think, anyways.
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Seriphyn - 03-05-2014
As a high ilvl PLD and WAR, I wish people hadn't already chipped in, because they've covered my thoughts on the matter mechanically, and far better at that
I will say that one crucial point to WAR is knowing when to pop INNER BEAST. This is a GCD 20% damage mitigation that can be popped when you have 5 stacks of Wraith. For easier lvl50 content, you want to pop this for King Tonberry's Everybody's Grudge as well as Blood Rain from Haukke Manor's final boss (assuming the DPS didn't pass the check). For Ultima HM, you want to pop it for Aetheric Boom and Tank Purge as well as for Diffractive Laser as well (though I don't think that 3rd attack has a warning).
I am quite pleased you decided to pick up WAR after your concerns about PLD! While others talk about mechanics, I'll go with aesthetics. Butcher's Block is your Rage of Halone at lvl30, and I guarantee you will love its kinetic feel far better than the obnoxiously loud RoH. It feels like it connects. Storm's Path is a little underwhelming to look at since it's just a selection of previous animations, but Storm's Eye is wonderful as well.
But the big one is Steel Cyclone. Forget about that airy-feeling Circle of Scorn...I mean, what IS CoS anyway?! Stab the ground, some light beams shoot up for some inexplicable reason...right...WELL, for Steel Cyclone, you won't be disappointed. It looks and feels incredible, with plenty of kinetic weight behind it that PLD just simply lacks. From a RP perspective, the PLD's aggro generation for groups is just...eh. Blinding them with a flash attack, really? That doesn't seem very swordsman-like...instead, for Warrior, you've got groundpounding Overpower and the iron tempest of Steel Cyclone. Nothing says "Come at me, bro" like pounding the crap out of everyone around you at once, rather than this PLD sissy "Waa I blinded you, nernerner!" nonsense!
To wrap up my useless rambling, consider the invincible button for both PLD and WAR. Hallowed Ground versus Holmgang. HG has you turtle up like a "Waa, I don't want to take any damage at alllll" craven! Holmgang?! FIGHT AT THE EDGE OF LIFE AT 1HP, RAAAWWWRRR. That's what I'm talking about.
Ahem, anyway...
QUICK EDIT: Oh also, when you've got enough AF2 stuff, consider a 20STR/10VIT split or even 30STR. I've got a close to 1000 damage crit as a WAR...while on tanking mode with -25% damage by default. A paladin will be wondering "What on earth is a crit?" while they're busy doing 150 damage for their combo ender. The easy lvl50 dungeons go MUCH faster with the damage you bring to the party.
QUICK EDIT2: Oh yes, it's certainly far more intense to tank as a WAR vs PLD, because it's harder by default. Perhaps even objectively so; when I'm feeling lazy or want to give my healers an easier time, I go as PLD, even if it's boring in my princess tiara with candy stick sword and plastic shield.
RE: RAAAWWR! - How to Play the Warrior - Sounsyy - 03-05-2014
(03-05-2014, 10:37 AM)Ildur Wrote: I am a bit rusty, but I remember each stack of Wrath also increases the ammount of healing your receive. That is the main reason to havethe stack at 5 all the time. Unless Squee changed that in one of the patches and I missed it, which would not be surprising given my attention span.They got rid of this in Patch 2.1. Defiance naturally gives you a 20% healing increase. 5 Wrath (infuriated status) only gives 10% extra crit hit rate. Which is still useful when you're dpsing while tanking. Butcher's Block criting for 1-1.1k is a beautiful thing.