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Warren Castille · **10-30-2015, 12:29 PM**

(10-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Kage Wrote: granted none of these characters or player characters are actively proposing the subjugation of eorzea, but there is no lynch mob just because someone is garlean.

Execution is everything.

We're talking about someone asking about the validity of being a Garlean killing-machine-captain-general-turned-diplomat-to-talk-Ishgard-into-surrender.

Not exactly a grey area in terms of subjugation, you know?

Edit: Not to mention being so great at murder that they were apparently in the Emperor's rolodex when it came to special contacts.

Double edit: To borrow a phrase that's been used a bit lately in various places, this character sounds fine from a fiction standpoint but not very approachable from a roleplaying standpoint. There are subtle but distinct differences in the two.

Leggerless · **10-30-2015, 01:07 PM**

I'm... conflicted over this character. Is she designed for storytelling or RPing? I'm failing to see how well she works with the latter.

Additionally, here's an amazing test I found that should check your character's power level.

Caspar · **10-30-2015, 01:07 PM**

She would make a good villain NPC, exempting the near-impossible diplomat angle. I don't think I need to state that a lot of people would be wary of RP with such an agressively significant (from a setting standpoint) character if you're planning on making her your RP main. These characteristics are way more similar to NPCs in my character's background, as they are powerful and don't have much room to grow. Think about what you want to do in the future with the character. She's already accomplished so much. Is anything really going to challenge her anymore?

-no longer matters- · **10-30-2015, 01:09 PM**

Okay I think I can come in here and comment on this.

https://wiki.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/pages..._Sirensong

Okay so yeah I have a character in the same vein albeit much different. Here's the thing it's a very difficult concept to pull off beyond being a plot character. You really can't do everyday RP and if you do you have to watch your P's and Q's so hard because people will pay attention, and will peg you.

Having a villain character is fun, but you REALLY have to have a cast of heroes to play with, or else you're going to find it hard to make connections.

Now if you have all this you're good to go, just remember you have an uphill battle to fight with anyone not in your story circle.

My honest recommendation is if this is a character you want to pursue, have a secondary character on hand for everyday and social RP as well.

Ozma · **10-30-2015, 05:51 PM**

(10-30-2015, 11:08 AM)Garalona Wrote: So what if she landed in Doma BEFORE the Empire stomped through, found an Au Ra ninja master who taught her new skills and allowed her to find peace with herself? She realizes relentless conquering and subjugation is not the way, yadda yadda yadda, but then whoops here comes he Empire, so much for that peaceful new life.

If they found out she's actually not dead she is FUCKED, so she has to flee to Eorzea with all the other Doman refugees, much as she may want to either stand & fight for her new home or even rejoin them and go back to her old one. She can't do either, it sucks, is probably still a sore point.

I earnestly love this idea and development that I want to adopt this into her story. After putting more thought into it I think it would be best to make this change after reading through multiple feedbacks I've gotten so far that the idea I'm pursuing is over complicated. I do understand the reasoning for the number of objection against the idea since Garlemald as a nation is hell bent on subjugating Eorzea into imperial rule and there's no room to ask or wonder if this is the general consensus of everyone within Garlemald's political structure judging from the general perspective of the community. Reason why I thought that there was room to question this and pursue it is mainly because we know so little about Garlemald's political structure and the people involved that makes up for that structure as we do with Ishgard of Ul'dah.Â

This is just my guess but prior to Heavensward, if someone had made a character like Aymeric who served as a diplomat between Ishgard and the three nation that wished to talk about peace, this very idea would most likely have been met with the same objections since Ishgard as a nation wanted to keep it's neutrality. At the time we honestly couldn't have known what the political hierarchy of Ishgard was like other than intelligent guesses some of which probably turned out to be true and others turned out to be a neat surprise. As we don't know the inner workings of Garlemald how can we be absolutely certain that there is no faction who goes against the idea of world domination in their politics without being Yoshi? Unless it's been stated by the developers otherwise I thought there can't be an absolute certainty that there is no such factions within Garlemald that didn't fancy the idea of world domination and dictatorship. The hints I got was that there were attempts before where Garlemald's dictatorship was challenged by 9 usurpers (reason for their rebellion was vague unless it was absolutely certain that they were just another dictator who wished to replace the emperor) so I think there might be room to question that not everyone went along with the idea because Garlemald operates like a hive mind.Â

For that reasoning I thought it could be reasoned with then that there might be such a faction who oppose the empire but is a very part of that same empire. Horrible comparison I know but similarly Aymeric and the Temple Knights, were part of Ishgard but had differing views than the total neutrality sought by Ishgard and he worked to collaborate with the other nations against the Pope's judgment.Â

But in any case, I won't be pursuing with this idea as it seems that the general community won't acknowledge this reasoning and I do understand the logic behind that perfectly well. Hell, even I was highly skeptical about it at first when it was all written down on paper but I thought to convince myself that depending on how it's all executed it might just turn out to be viable and fun. I figured that depending on how it's played out, it might even become Camp Dragonhead 2.0 just with Ex-Garleans who desire peace between the 4 nations and their homeland aiding a different cause. Yes at this point you're all thinking I'm mad lol. But I thought it might give a nice foundation for those wanting to rp as a Garlean deserter to find reason to remain loyal to Garlemald (not the Emperor) by working with the rest of Eorzean nations to work out peace.Â

Thank you so much for all the input. I know it's been one stressful ride for some of you trying to educate a stubborn noob to the point a few of you seems to have lost their patience during the course and I sincerely want to apologize for that. I've transferred over to Balmung but I find myself now wondering if I should scrap the idea altogether along with a name change depending on what I salvage from the current character.Â

Lastly are there any FC/Linkshells that focuses on the Doman Refugees and Ninjas?

Garalona · **10-30-2015, 06:07 PM**

Yes, there could be a number of Garleans unhappy with the way the Empire does things, but like in Soviet Russia, they couldn't easily act on that without serious, probably deadly consequences. We only see the well oiled war machine part of the Empire for a reason.

We only see the deserters who aren't important or threatening enough for the Empire to hunt to the ends of the earth, because the Empire's reach and influence extends far enough that the rest are almost assuredly dead. That's how oppressive empires like that survive and thrive, by crushing anyone who steps out of line so only the subservient (or those who do well to appear so) remain. But who knows, maybe *I'm* assuming too much and every imperial citizen gets a pony.

And thankfully Sion is presumed dead, so she doesn't have to worry about being hunted, given her illustrious background.

<snip>
Don't drink and workshop, kids. But anyway, I'm glad I could have inspired you, but I think I'm done here. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

allgivenover · **10-30-2015, 06:47 PM**

(10-30-2015, 05:51 PM)Ozma Wrote: This is just my guess but prior to Heavensward, if someone had made a character like Aymeric who served as a diplomat between Ishgard and the three nation that wished to talk about peace, this very idea would most likely have been met with the same objections since Ishgard as a nation wanted to keep it's neutrality. At the time we honestly couldn't have known what the political hierarchy of Ishgard was like other than intelligent guesses some of which probably turned out to be true and others turned out to be a neat surprise. As we don't know the inner workings of Garlemald how can we be absolutely certain that there is no faction who goes against the idea of world domination in their politics without being Yoshi? Unless it's been stated by the developers otherwise I thought there can't be an absolute certainty that there is no such factions within Garlemald that didn't fancy the idea of world domination and dictatorship. The hints I got was that there were attempts before where Garlemald's dictatorship was challenged by 9 usurpers (reason for their rebellion was vague unless it was absolutely certain that they were just another dictator who wished to replace the emperor) so I think there might be room to question that not everyone went along with the idea because Garlemald operates like a hive mind.Â

For that reasoning I thought it could be reasoned with then that there might be such a faction who oppose the empire but is a very part of that same empire. Horrible comparison I know but similarly Aymeric and the Temple Knights, were part of Ishgard but had differing views than the total neutrality sought by Ishgard and he worked to collaborate with the other nations against the Pope's judgment.Â

I know you're presenting this as support for roleplaying your idea (and yes, I did keep reading and see that you decided to drop it), but this is really even more of a reason to not do it. Why? Because if Yoshi and the team decides to flesh that out you're suddenly intruding on canon lore by being the "other single Garlean diplomat to Ishgard".

EDIT: You can really cut out half of your "cool" factors and still have a character you find interesting, there's no reason for her to be so complex. That kind of character works well in storytelling, not so in roleplay.

Oli! · **10-30-2015, 06:47 PM**

The idea of an Ishgardian ambassador wouldn't have been particularly frowned upon, because we already knew beforehand that they once held relations with the outside world, and certain houses still do under the practice of hiring foreigners on occasion to work with them.

In fact, some people did roll with that concept.

It's different for Garlemald, because it's made very clear that they wish to conquer for the sake of what they consider to be the Greater Good. Regardless, if we were to theorycraft about their internal government, it would be more plausible to assume that it is similar to the later days of Rome, than to make something up entirely from scratch, considering their naming conventions, military makeup, and general outlook towards the world at large.

If we were to assume an absolute parallel with Rome (which it could be argued is unlikely in totality, but considering the way that other city-states are modeled, it is nonetheless likely to be close), then we would be able to assume that those that question the Emperor's judgement would be suspect to immediate persecution by his hand; the Garlean emperor would also be able to refuse any legislation allowing for diplomacy if they willed it, and would also have control over the entirety of Garlemald's standing army.

The question then arises of, if this were true, how come there was such a large dispute between members of Garlemald during Project Meteor? There are several possibilities.

1.) Emperor Galvus's Health. It's implied during ARR that Galvus is ill, and losing grip on his power as a result. We're not entirely sure when this happens, so it's unclear whether his health was failing during the Project Meteor incident as well. Either way, as of HW, he is dead.

2.) Garlean Generals Doing Whatever The Hell They Want. Also possible, but seemingly unlikely, since you'd think that there would be some crackdown on that. At the same time, however, Nael van Darnus was pretty clearly loopy later on in the storyline (and was also seen among members of Garlemald as a little too extremist for anyone's tastes), and Gaius van Baelsar didn't seem to give much of a shit about the "official" abandonment of invasion plans either. This possibility, however strange, may also be granted further potential if one considers that the Garlean public at large was rather opposed to Project Meteor; that's a pretty clear indication of a higher-up somewhere just not giving a shit.

3.) Imperium maius. This is a special kind of commanding authority that was present later on in Roman history. Although some Emperors had greater control over Rome's armies than others, under later forms of Roman government, what made the Roman emperor special was that, despite having the ability to call and end senate meetings (despite having only a little more power than a normal senator, as well as absolute judicial ruling) was the ability to show up on the field of battle, and immediately assume command, so long as he stayed there. If he's not there, then the highest commanding officer that is not the Emperor (usually a general) would have command as they normally would. If Galvus wasn't able to make it out to Eorzea and issue command, it's likely that the Generals were free to do what they wanted by Garlean law of command, or just because no orders made it out to them.

Personally, I would put my stock in imperium maiusÂ being the reason. This is because after killing Bismark in HW, we get a prime example of whatever the Garlean version of imperium maiusÂ is in action; the newly-appointed Garlean Emperor Varis zos Galvus swoops down, waves his command of his army in your face, shows off his cool airship, and leaves. Despite the presence of Regula van Hydrus, the legatus of the legion you see in that cutscene, it's veryÂ clear who the troops are listening to.

If you combine Possibility 3 with Possibility 2, then you'd get the most likely scenario for why that happened, in my mind.

The gist of what I'm trying to get at is that if we're going to theorycraft about Garlean government, the best thing we're likely to get is something that looks like the Roman Empire, which is clearly reflected in the names, army-ranks, etcetera, that Square Enix gives us.

It's also possible that all of this is moot anyway; regardless of whether or not Garlemald is open to diplomacy, Ishgard most certainly isn't, considering that they have joined an Alliance whose sole purpose at the moment is telling Garlemald to F-off. So no matter how much we speculate on what's happening in Garlemald's government, the thing is, we knowÂ what's going on with Ishgard's government, and they're not open to negotiation.

-no longer matters- · **10-30-2015, 08:00 PM**

Best advice I can give as a person who was over thinking and over complicating their characters. Just come up with a few base lines, don't over think them. Things like where she's from, why she's here but keep it vague then let RP fill in the blanks. Let natural cool factors build up and don't force them!

I hope you can find the balance you need to have a character you love! (It took me three technically!)

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