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Naunet · **03-20-2014, 04:11 PM**

But vanity systems are not supposed to be level cap systems.

Yssen · **03-20-2014, 04:15 PM**

(03-20-2014, 02:45 PM)synaesthetic Wrote:
(03-20-2014, 02:24 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: While I certainly wasn't expecting the quest to require Lv50, I guess it makes sense considering the system only really benefits 50s anyway. Pretty sure SE is trying to encourage all players to get to cap at least one job since that's really where the game begins.

This "the game begins at the level cap" mentality is one of the major problems with the MMO genre today.

Content should be meaningful and enjoyable for the entire range of experience. Not just a specific part of it.

The game does not start at 50. The bulk of the main story is getting to 50. There is also a huge amount of content that is below 50. Sure, endgame is a 50. There are really only 3 things at that point. Coil, Crystal Tower, and Primals (both HM and EX). There is a lot of content out there to enjoy besides endgame, you just have to open your eyes from the tunnel vision of "must get to endgame" a bit.

I'll grant that the on going new main story stuff is 50, but that could change in an expansion. Probably similar to how XI did with Chains of Promethia, effectively creating a second "main scenario" to enjoy on the way up or syncing back down to the content.

We really cannot fault the genre, or any individual game in it, for assuming that people will keep lvling up. Particularly not in the early stage we are still at with this game.

ArmachiA · **03-20-2014, 05:58 PM**

To me, the implication of having to get to 50 is a bit more problematic, but I really don't see the fuss over the Glamour system in the first place. I mean it'll be nice, but my have my RP set in my armory chest and that works out fine for me. Takes 5 seconds to switch between one and the other and I'm not really looking at how good my gear looks in Coil (Much more worried about my stats - what up ACC). Disclaimer: THAT'S JUST ME. Glamour is a nice system but not one I feel is game breaking if implemented poorly.

I think it's because the first time I ever saw a Glamour system was Aion - where if you wanted to use the piece for Glamour the piece was destroyed in the process. I did like DCUO's system in theory (Equipped thing, keep look of thing in menu forever) but the menu was kind of clunky and one I got a ton of pieces I stopped using it. I played GW2 but can't for the life of me remember how that worked, guess it wasn't too memorable.

My favorite system, by far, is The Secret World. All actual leveling pieces aren't even SEEN on your character. Their totem or other artifacts. All the clothes you see are buyable in clothing shops and are purely there for looks. Really cool idea, but I understand most games can't do this.

This is SE though. There is something you need to know about SE if you've never played FFXI -- and this is important. SE will implement something and it will be awful to start, pretty much all the time. They have good ideas but their follow through when they are added is terrible. It's been this way since FFXI.

HOWEVER, they are generally quick to fix their mistakes if there is a lot of sound offs. They DO listen to their playerbase, but not till AFTER "thing" is already implemented. They'll put in their vision first and see how it goes, then fix it when they realized they fucked up. It happens a lot with them, but I suppose it's better than never listening at all and actively fighting back against criticism (Sup TOR Devs?)

Kailia · **03-20-2014, 07:49 PM**

Here's my thoughts:

I actually approve of the level 50 requirement. As you are leveling you shouldn't really be too concerned with glamours since you will be flying through gear regardless.

And also, it's a nice reward for getting to 50. It says "Congratulations! You've reached the end goal! Here's a little vanity system to enjoy!" Now the "The base and projected items are of the same type." I am assuming means if the base item and projected item are for the head slot then they are glamourable". Considering nothing in this game is labeled plate, leather, cloth, I am assuming that is what it means.

Steel Wolf · **03-20-2014, 08:03 PM**

What IS IT with this company and making the most basic of MMO design precepts arbitrarily complex?? Â Just give us the damned glamour system and stop trying to be bloody cute about it.

Does my head in, this nonsense.

Ildur · **03-20-2014, 08:03 PM**

While you see it as a reward for reaching the level cap, I see it as them holding the system hostage. If they had restricted it to level 15 I wouldn't mind so much because it would be consistent with dyes. But this seems absolutely arbitrary.

Also, the restrictions say you can only glamour things that can be used by the same classes, so I'm suspecting that you won't be able to have your plate armor look like a potato sack. But I don't know, nor care anymore. This system is useless to me and most roleplayers, so whatever. It's only for end-game play. It might as well not exist for me.

allgivenover · **03-20-2014, 08:03 PM**

If getting to cap was any sort of difficult or time consuming as it was back in XI I'd see a reason to gripe about it, but with the numerous quests, duty roulettes, and leves to do I really don't see an issue with providing more incentive to get to 50.

It seems to me the development of the glamour system was more geared towards endgamers that are tired of wearing a mishmash of i90 stuff than it is about roleplay. I've had Li's RP outfits on a gear set for some time now, the glamour system does pretty much nothing to alter how I'm going to use it, but for my mix of Cleric's/Allaghan for endgame? It's super exciting.

Naunet · **03-20-2014, 08:31 PM**

(03-20-2014, 08:03 PM)allgivenover Wrote: If getting to cap was any sort of difficult or time consuming as it was back in XI I'd see a reason to gripe about it, but with the numerous quests, duty roulettes, and leves to do I really don't see an issue with providing more incentive to get to 50.

The wardrobe system should notÂ be used as a level 50 reward. Period. End of story. This is not something I've encountered in anyÂ MMO to date, and for very good reason. It doesn't matter how quickly or how slowly one can level in this game; we all deserve access to the feature, regardless of level. Hell, glamouring in XIV is less inconvenient than re-skinning in TERA because in that game, re-skinning destroys the template item, but I and many others stillÂ made use of it while leveling. No one enjoys being stuck in a mis-matched hodge podge of armor, and for some of us, the current state of alts on our armor is actually a deterrentÂ to wanting to level them further. As I said earlier, I can't actually bring myself to level my MRD alt to cap because of her current outfit. I hate it so much that I have zero interest in her. If I could glamour away the hideousness, then I might actually want to play her.

The whole thing is terribly inconsistent. Dyes and the barber shop are both locked behind quests at level 15; it made sense to expect that glamours would be as well. Never in a million years could I have expected SE to be this stupid about something that should be available to everyone, at all times, regardless of level.

synaesthetic · **03-20-2014, 08:44 PM**

Never underestimate Square-Enix's stupidity. After all, they considered a game that sold nearly five million copies to be a failure.

Kailia · **03-21-2014, 02:21 AM**

I think some people are being way way too critical here. Since 2.1 leveling has been made super easy. You've got Daily roulette, which my paladin alt has gained 1 level a day from and in the 40's is beast tribe dailies. The end result is as you level up, your upgrade gear becomes obsolete and ends up either being converted to Materia, or sold to a vendor for a few gil, or kept as pieces of potential RP look.

Also Dyes and Aethetician don't require complex magic. Glamours by it's very nature is magical, as you are putting the looks and dyes of 1 piece of gear, over your main equipment. Dyes requires no magic. Just pour the color juice on and done. Aethetician is an NPC who uses his own skills to do your styling. So really using Glamours any time before you got your first level 50, is rather pointless.

Like it or hate it, Glamours is on its way. It's an end game reward that you earn after such a long journey from 1 to 50. And as you level your class see's every style of gear you can craft. For example with say White Mages and their chest slot items you will at some point or another have equipped for your main questing gear:

Dalmatica
Robe
Halfrobe
Cowl
Gown
Bliaud

So as you level you will be able to find and equip and see various pieces of clothing and when you hit the magical level 50 and do the quest to unlock it, will have ready your chosen look for RP or whatever.

Would I of loved to of had it open at level 15? Sure. But what would be the point? Every time I leveled up I'd have to reglamour the upgrade gear. Where as at level cap, I go real slow in getting upgrade gear.

Overall, this system encourages and rewards people who level. This is Final Fantasy XIV. It's not Tera. It's not WoW. Though Yoshi did say ARR was inspired by how Blizzard did things with WoW early on. They are pumping out content way faster than WoW, their glamour system isn't as limiting as transmogrification was in WoW. In WoW, you could only do leather to leather, and even then there were restrictions. You could only use disenchantable items in that system. So many good looking white/grey gear people had that they enjoyed the looks of, and weren't allowed to use in transmogrifications.

This Glamours system is innovative, and adds some interesting elements to the end game RP. Plate wearers will be able to make their plated armor look like cloth tunics, etc. Anything you physically see on the character is glamourable. Only real limitations is your current class has to be able to equip it, and the system unlocks at level 50. I can agree with those limitations. Hell I love the fact that if your wearing one of them cowls, you can glamour a robe over it that doesn't use the head slot. You still wont be allowed to wear a head slot item, but at least you got the robe look you want!

synaesthetic · **03-21-2014, 03:58 AM**

Wow, so much Square-Enix knob-slobbing going on in here...

This system is not innovative. It's primitive, barely a step up from WoW's transmog system. It's not even close to innovative.

Look. I can log into RIFT right now, create a character right now, and at level 1 on that character, right now, put something in that character's costuming tab. In fact, even without anything to put in that tab, I can disable any slot I want so it shows up as if I weren't wearing anything at all. I don't have to be level 50. I don't have to do some stupid quest to unlock it. And I don't have to pay some crafter for the right to use it. It's just there, I can use it any time I want.

So no, Square-Enix really has no excuse at all. This is pointlessly limited for no good reason other than... no, there really is no good reason for this...Â unless they intend to sell costume items for real-world money in a cash shop. That is literally the only sensible reason why they would have restricted the system this badly.

I am seriously so annoyed by this I am questioning the wisdom of continuing to give Square-Enix money. I'm poor; I play MMOs because they're relatively cheap social interaction--a night out at the club is a hell of a lot more expensive--and they're at least supposed to be fun games. Unfortunately, Squee seems hell-bent on ensuring that they suck as much fun out of everything they add to this game it just makes me wonder why I'm still giving them money. There just comes a point when I wonder at what point is enough enough?

I really looked forward to the costuming system... and now that it's coming it's basically useless to me. Nearly everything I planned to do with it is impossible. All it's good for now is just to keep my gear from mismatching when I mix two sets of raid gear.

Clover · **03-21-2014, 04:18 AM**

(03-20-2014, 08:44 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: Never underestimate Square-Enix's stupidity. After all, they considered a game that sold nearly five million copies to be a failure.

*Amused*. Square-Enix's "stupidity" has created the best MMORPG I've ever played. There's the door for people who hate it so much, of course. The rest of us will be enjoying 2.2 in the meanwhile.

KitKat · **03-21-2014, 05:19 AM**

(03-21-2014, 03:58 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: Wow, so much Square-Enix knob-slobbing going on in here...

This system is not innovative. It's primitive, barely a step up from WoW's transmog system. It's not even close to innovative.

Look. I can log into RIFT right now, create a character right now, and at level 1 on that character, right now, put something in that character's costuming tab. In fact, even without anything to put in that tab, I can disable any slot I want so it shows up as if I weren't wearing anything at all. I don't have to be level 50. I don't have to do some stupid quest to unlock it. And I don't have to pay some crafter for the right to use it. It's just there, I can use it any time I want.

So no, Square-Enix really has no excuse at all. This is pointlessly limited for no good reason other than... no, there really is no good reason for this...Â unless they intend to sell costume items for real-world money in a cash shop. That is literally the only sensible reason why they would have restricted the system this badly.

I am seriously so annoyed by this I am questioning the wisdom of continuing to give Square-Enix money. I'm poor; I play MMOs because they're relatively cheap social interaction--a night out at the club is a hell of a lot more expensive--and they're at least supposed to be fun games. Unfortunately, Squee seems hell-bent on ensuring that they suck as much fun out of everything they add to this game it just makes me wonder why I'm still giving them money. There just comes a point when I wonder at what point is enough enough?

I really looked forward to the costuming system... and now that it's coming it's basically useless to me. Nearly everything I planned to do with it is impossible. All it's good for now is just to keep my gear from mismatching when I mix two sets of raid gear.

Rift is free. If you're poor and love it so much...well...

Kailia · **03-21-2014, 07:04 AM**

(03-21-2014, 03:58 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: Wow, so much Square-Enix knob-slobbing going on in here...

This system is not innovative. It's primitive, barely a step up from WoW's transmog system. It's not even close to innovative.

Look. I can log into RIFT right now, create a character right now, and at level 1 on that character, right now, put something in that character's costuming tab. In fact, even without anything to put in that tab, I can disable any slot I want so it shows up as if I weren't wearing anything at all. I don't have to be level 50. I don't have to do some stupid quest to unlock it. And I don't have to pay some crafter for the right to use it. It's just there, I can use it any time I want.

So no, Square-Enix really has no excuse at all. This is pointlessly limited for no good reason other than... no, there really is no good reason for this...Â unless they intend to sell costume items for real-world money in a cash shop. That is literally the only sensible reason why they would have restricted the system this badly.

I am seriously so annoyed by this I am questioning the wisdom of continuing to give Square-Enix money. I'm poor; I play MMOs because they're relatively cheap social interaction--a night out at the club is a hell of a lot more expensive--and they're at least supposed to be fun games. Unfortunately, Squee seems hell-bent on ensuring that they suck as much fun out of everything they add to this game it just makes me wonder why I'm still giving them money. There just comes a point when I wonder at what point is enough enough?

I really looked forward to the costuming system... and now that it's coming it's basically useless to me. Nearly everything I planned to do with it is impossible. All it's good for now is just to keep my gear from mismatching when I mix two sets of raid gear.

Since you love rift SOOOO much, and hate Square Enix SOOO much, and your precious Rift is free to play, then go play it. Me, I love this game, I'm loving what I am seeing of 2.2. This glamour system is way freaking above WoW's transmog. How is it useless to you? I was level 50 before 2.1 even came out.

I get the feeling you just hate to hate, that you don't like that this game is competing against free to play garbage games, and in my book, winning. Bottom line, getting insulting and flaming and bashing a game this site is based around and always yammering on about a game that has 0 relations with FFXIV is in poor taste.

FreelanceWizard · **03-21-2014, 08:38 AM**

This thread seems to just be going around in circles at this point and drifting once again into ugliness, so I'm going to lock it. Everyone's made their points and their opinions clear.

As a side note, since no one from SE reads these forums (to my knowledge), feedback you want them to see really needs to go on the Lodestone or through the "Leave a suggestion" button in-game.

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