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Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **01-19-2013, 06:08 PM**

'lo again everyone. I've been debating on this for a day or so and I've finally decided I'm going to try to pose this proposition/plea/request and see what happens. The worst would be a cold, lonely thread-- which isn't terrible at all.

So, I've mentioned elsewhere that I was more or less enlisted to help start a guild/FC/linkshell (going to call it a guild) for FFXIV: ARR. I'd played FFXIV briefly, loved everything about it, my computer simply couldn't survive and soon died and so when I was asked I was pretty excited by the prospect. I've been offered help if I have any questions from RPC members, which I greatly appreciate, however it's difficult to ask someone to help you create a guild and it's equally difficult to help someone create a guild when you're not intending to be part of it. So, basically, I'm looking for either someone who just loves to flesh out concepts for guilds or someone who would like to join a guild -and- help flesh it out.

I should give some information about what we have so far:

(I started to fill out a Linkshell Directory Template, but don't intend to finish/post it until a lot of important things are finished. Like our website...)

Concept:

The Divine Aegis is a equal part PVE/RP guild. Although we intend to keep the two sections well separated, we will encourage roleplayers to level -and- roleplay together so that they are able to maintain a plausible advancement of skill from low-level novice to end-game artisan and make sure that they are given a stable environment to grow not only as roleplayers but as general players. The intent is a combination Military/Magicka academy (to be developed into a wandering militia of sorts) with a Neutral Good alignment (Which does not mean all player characters must be Neutral Good-- any form of Good or Neutral alignment that does not hinder the purpose of aiding others and working together is acceptable). The entire theme of unity, loyalty, faith, and courage are based off twelve basic tenants which in turn are based off of the Twelve, themselves. Religious faith is not so much a necessity as it is a fuel in this case, and though we welcome those who may have lost touch with their patrons to learn and become part of our fraternity, we will use such tenants as metaphors that directly correlate into our (in character) code of conduct. All people of all specialties, even those that are not directly considered war-based (such as weavers or leather workers) have a place in this guild as well. As we intend to grow this guild into a mobile militia bent on protecting Eorzeans from danger, becoming self-sufficient as a community as well as individuals is paramount to our cause.
In short if you:
-Want structure and stability
-Aim to protect or defend others regardless of financial gain
-Want to become a diplomat and help create alliances between the guilds of Eorzea
-Wish to expand your knowledge of herb, magick, or religious lore
-Preserve skills and knowledge through the coming chaos
-Wish to learn how to better hone your chosen skills (with in-character substance and development)
-Wish to share your knowledge with others in organized groups both inside and outside the Divine Aegis
or simply
-Want a safe place to practice your faith in the Twelve
There is a place for you among us.

(It might not be very visible but I referenced a bit from the Spartans in creating this)

Endgame:

We intend to help players learn the game mechanics as well as roleplaying skills. Given that this is a PVE/RP guild, we are intent on helping roleplayers who desire to reach endgame do so, and giving them all the opportunity to experience all the available player content in the game. We intend to give roleplayers access to more hardcore PVE'ers who may have skills or knowledge regarding the more advanced aspects of the game. Those who choose not to engage in endgame content will not be forced, though it will be encouraged to try and promote unity within the guild of both roleplaying and pve'ing members.

(It'll be an RP/PVE guild-- which doesn't mean you HAVE to PVE, nor does it mean it will be watered down by PVE. What it means is that RP'ers who are leveling or want help with quests or to get gear will -have- access to help and PVE'ers who want to learn to RP will have people capable of helping them. For the most part, as the RP officer (to be) I am completely uninvolved in anything dealing with PVE/Raiding/so on and the PVE officer intends to stay very much out of RP matters. We will also be practicing a rule of 'Just because you have an officer rank does not necessarily mean you have in-character status.', which I think is self-explanatory.)

Rule Summary:

In character we'll follow twelve basic tenants:
- Do not seek arms where words may settle. (Thaliak the Scholar)
- Judge not with your eyes but with a clear heart. (Menphina the Lover)
- Always seek knowledge as it is the keenest of blades, the strongest of shields, and the fairest of scales. (Azeyma the Warden)
- Wander far from comfort, fearing neither boundaries nor prejudice. (Oschon the Wanderer)
- Aspire not to selfishly settle in the world left to us by our forebears; build wonders and preserve beauty for our successors. (Byregot the Builder)
- Take time to plan even the shortest of journeys with eyes ahead and mind on the horizon. (Llymlaen the Navigator)
- Learn well your chosen crafts with intent to thrive as one, not subsist alone. (Nald'thal the Trader)
- Leave no land or people bespoiled so long as you've the strength to till and sow. (Nophica the Matron)
- Although our destinations in life may never be clear, aspire to take the highest road, even if the path is a lonesome one. (Nymeia the Spinner)
- Prey ruthlessly upon evil, both in form and in fear, leaving none in your wake. (Rhalgr the Destroyer)
-Against the most hopeless of circumstances, fight with faith, rigorous to the end. (Halone the Fury)
- The time invested in change is time saved when change arises. (Althyk the Keeper)

So there it is. My biggest problem is that, even though I've done by best to come up with this, I am almost incapable of whittling down my point. With the concept of the guild, this is particularly difficult and I'm finding it hard to come up with a lot of things like realistic in-game goals, individual tasks, etc. I've already discussed with the leader-to-be (G'erard) that I could use some help and he agreed that we should try to find someone.

If anyone's interested in being part of a Neutral Good guild and helping us work things out, we could really use a vice officer or just a friendly person with good ideas.

P.S. I've discussed with Miss Eva right after joining about how our planning to have a Twelve-based guild wasn't intended to be stepping on her toes and I hope the concept is different enough that it still does not.

And feel free to tell me if you do or don't like the concept so far and why, please. If I end up continuing to do this the way I have so far, I could still use a little external input.

Deirdre · **01-19-2013, 06:51 PM**

After reading your post it looks to me like you have quite a bit fleshed out already, actually! I wish you luck with you endevour (as I am a freelancing RPer and have little intention of joining any RP shell). Honestly the concept reminds me a lot of The Eorzean Guard from back in the day combined with a bit of AETHER.

It sounds like now all you really need is a little bit of story, background and whatnot, which is a LITTLE hard to do with the lack of information over the five cycle skip we are having game wise. Not sure what I can really contribute other than a 'way to go' on the extreme flesh you've already got built on this idea!

*didn't really help*
lol

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **01-19-2013, 06:56 PM**

It's appreciated nonetheless. At least you didn't say somethin' like... 'NO! NO! Your creative license are revoked!'

Deirdre · **01-19-2013, 07:01 PM**

*stops chewing on the creative license...*

*...slowly takes it out of her mouth...*

*... hands it back all drooly...*

...ahem... yes.

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **01-19-2013, 07:04 PM**

*accepts the drooly license*

...

Hawt.

TheLastCandle · **01-19-2013, 07:17 PM**

I like the military/magical academic aspect, for what it's worth. :approve: Deirdre's right in that we don't really know anything at this point about the years between Bahamut's ravaging and ARR, which might make things hard for storytelling purposes right now. The good news is that there will be an open beta before release - I believe it's Phase 4 - and I'm sure there'll be plenty of time to glean all sorts of information from quests and the like to see how you can fit your group in.

*glances at the dripping license, covered with teeth-marks* At least it didn't get "recycled."

Mtoto Wamoto · **01-22-2013, 04:06 AM**

Oooo, interesting.

As Deirdre pointed out, it does seem to have aspects similar to the Eorzean Guard and AETHER - The former being my own LS (which later dissolved after I took a break from the game and split into Sentinels Ark and Everwatch) and the latter being the first LS I joined in FFXIV and later worked alongside with on many different occasions when I was running the EG.

Since neither LS exists anymore, and there are many characters out there who would fit this bill (lol, mine for example), I say go for it! It's a niche corner in the community, but the interest is there for sure so long as there is good content and RP to be had.

I don't want to go on a long 'back in my day' tirade, but I would like to share some of my experiences (if you'd have them of course!) both handling these type of shells as well as ideas you can add to yours so they hopefully help you in some way as you develop your own LS. Smile

Ustarte · **01-22-2013, 07:58 AM**

This seems to be pretty much exactly what I am looking for, being new to role-playing and having an uncontrollable urge to level every job/class I was a bit worried that I'd have trouble adjusting where most people seem to focus on 1-2 jobs that are part of the character's foundation.

Moltove · **01-22-2013, 11:31 AM**

((EDIT: I am soooo sorry this is so long >.<))

First off, this seems like a great idea, and as Mtoto said, it's been done before but fell apart. One of the reasons why (neglecting internal conflict, as I was not here) it may have fell apart was because FFXIV was well on its last limbs, and had it not been hope for 2.0, so would have been the RP community. But now that 2.0's coming, and it's a brand new beast, tamed by someone as confident as Yoshi-P, and with the natural gathering power of releasing brand new content, you better believe this place, and FFXIV will /thrive/ for some time. Now more than ever is a fantastic time to create a new guild, as you get new RPers and old.

That being said, you have a guild concept appealing to a wide array of people. Though you require a good/neutral alignment and have an emphasis on the twelve, you give the player a choice on how much "religion" the player can bring in. Otherwise it's a goodie-based guild. Though, really I've yet to see an evil-based guild, or much of a evil person (true evil, rather), but really this isn't much of a faction game like WoW/EQ2, so it is what you make it.

You have a military aspect (especially if you 'play' off of the PvE side) and you also have the magic/scholarly side. That's a wide aspect, and depending on the RP that you provide/create and host for events. The Military/Academy theme, individually or together, provides a lot of self-sustaining aspects. Forums are a common location to set any headquarters and background information needed, while the game provides the modern/active setting. The guild chat could also be the HQ location, but the most popular use is, well...a chat medium for real-time. I've seen guilds in other games where they use enchanted badges or earrings as the medium which they speak in. Since FFXIV has linkPEARLS, one would assume...it's a pearl...but what do you do with the pearl? How do you speak into it? How do you listen to it?

Anyways, I got off a little bit off topic. Basically, it's self-sufficient. Having these chat mediums and a good backstory, you give something the players can work with until you can interact as a guild to other guilds. Everyone will be in game RPing with themselves, and there would be enough dynamic for them to RP to do so as you set up camp to get internal and external events running. You can give the guild a mysterious background, having its headquarters either in a foreign land or in Eorzea and have the past members decimated with little survivors. Rediscovering the fortification or head quarters is not only a great starter event (once you have enough members), but it can start to define who the guild is as a whole and define how the new members view and take seriously the guild. This also provides grounds for new/creative injection of RP about the guild or its backstory as you go through the 'HQ' (which for the sake of imagination, you could find any ruins in the game and RP the travel there, then RP going inside an instance or open dungeon).

Now, that was only an example, but it's actually very very similar to a guild I used to be in from 1.0. The guild existed before and fell apart, and when I came in, it was about reforming this guild to it''s former glory and one of the RP events was gathering together and going out to discover a lost, abandoned fort and reclaiming it. The leadership allowed people to 'find' things that they would think that they would find in the rubble to either help progress the story along (my character found some notes and took some charcoal sketchings, and it counted more or less as an unlock) or create small, new things to add to the backstory (Say, if someone found a certain type of book full of spells that would define what type of spells the knights had used back then). So there's a lot you can do once you got even an inkling of a backstory and want to get the guild formed.

Quote: I am almost incapable of whittling down my point. With the concept of the guild, this is particularly difficult and I'm finding it hard to come up with a lot of things like realistic in-game goals, individual tasks, etc.

A lot of these goals will come in time. The most important thing is to set at least one overall goal or theme to the group. This is a military/academy, so teaching people how to defend themselves responsibly while protecting the weak and sick may be one. You do have a PvE side, so that does put emphasis on the military side, an perhaps the military aspect has a different goal than the academics/magic side. Depending on the lore of the guild, you could have the magic side focusing on deciphering and studying things the military finds out in the field, in order to find something out there in the world or something of the past. While you have a lot of leeway with your overall military/magicka theme, it's also harder to boil down exactly what you want, but don't forget that the people you recruit should guide you, too. That doesn't mean skimp out of the backstory, but it does mean that the success of the backstory depends on the people believing in it or executing it.

Oh, and don't forget to give members something special for joining. Something very popular is a mark that distinguishes them from other guilds. Something that the people can RP in front of others, like a tattoo or a piece of jewelry. They eat that stuff up XD. Even more if you give each and every member something personalized, like a nickname, or something!

As for the difference in linkshell and free company: A linkshell will be a manageable chat channel. You will be able to see who belongs to it, who's online and everything, but all it is is a glorified chat channel. You can have multiple linkshells. A free company is every sense of the word "guild" from other games as it'll have a roster, multiple ranks and of course a shared guild hall/home, but you'll only able to have one. If you are absolutely serious about sharing the PvE side of this guild, you have to consider that you may not be able to be a linkshell, as RPers will not join a Free Company so lightly, and regular players will not join a linkshell to raid. In reality there's no difference, because there are no raids, so a group is a group is a group, but there will be content that comes up that will tailor to free companies (no clue what FFXIV has planned, but if you know other MMOs...).

In addition, regular players will not want to join a guild they have to share guild chats with people who are RPing. You may be able to make a FC for the PvEers and a LS for the RPers, but...then at that point you'd be raising two guilds with the same/similar name.

But I see the concept you're going for, believe me. I want to RP /and/ have a group of people I can reach endgame with and consistently group with. It might just be difficult mixing the two.

Mtoto Wamoto · **01-22-2013, 12:34 PM**

Just wanted to hop back on and touch on some things Molt said.

Internal affairs aside, Molt hits the nail on the head with part of the reason these shells ended up dying out when they did. When I dissolved the EG, the game had yet to hit Patch 1.18, so not only was RP content growing stagnant, but so was actual game content. While I can only speak for myself here, I'll admit that my interest in the game at that point began to wane. It wasn't until jobs were added that the excitement of the pursuit of content returned and also my interest in RP (albeit, I admit not as much as it had been in previous times).

Neutral-good aligned shells are all fine and well, but keep in mind that in doing so you must maintain a fine balance so you don't end up teetering towards the lawful side more than the chaotic side. As a military group outside of the Grand Companies, you'd likely be unsanctioned, so you can't really have your more lawful members policing around other characters within the world since they really hold no warrant to do so.

Since I was more involved with the Eorzean Guard than I was with AETHER, I'll speak more about the military aspect since I have first hand experience with it in a linkshell setting. A dedicated forum is your best friend here. You need to have a place where all lines of communication can be reached outside of the game itself. Our forums were pretty in depth, from applications and character journals, to in-character reports and documents. 90% of the forums were in-character. ICly, Mtoto would have officers write up weekly reports and submit them to her. From a player standpoint, I fully understand the time and commitment that takes. But surprisingly, many of the people who were asked to do so ICly, did so because they wanted to OOCly. I think the trick here is to make engaging content and create lore (while staying grounded of course!) that applies to your shell as a whole. Often I would create missions, jobs, assignments that dealt with things we didn't have in game. Hell, I went so far as to create entire groups of bandits and camps filled with Amal'jaa skirmishers and such just so the LS had actual stuff to RP about. A lot of the things we did surprisingly ended up becoming in-game content later. We'd do a lot of delivery missions, taking supplies from Ul'dah to camp blah blah blah and then taking things we gathered there to the hamlets, all the while RPing and 'fighting' mobs who would attack us on the way. Some other things we would do is just create full on dungeons out of existing dungeons in game. Back in 1.0 when Tamtara Deepcraft was just an empty shell filled with mobs, we would do expeditions into the place and RP our findings and such. I think things began to take a turn once actual dungeons were introduced such as the Darkhold. One of the key points about the LS was that we focused not only on RP, but actually playing the game as well. So to that end, we would do our best to use actual game content and have it work with RP in a way. Of course, this does have it's problems. For example - when RPing an expedition down into the Darkhold, we're on a 30 minute timer. There is no way that a group can effectively run the dungeon and beat it while RPing at the same time. So to counter this, most of us would end up doing the dungeon again after we beat it the proper way just to RP inside. In terms of military like content, there are a lot of different things that you can do. You just have to be creative and engaged with it. That brings me to my next point...

Being engaged with a LS of military or scholarly nature means that both the leader and the officers need to be active and engaged and producing content as well as overseeing the plot lines of any story arcs you might be running the shell through. Things can quickly get muddled, but so long as good communication is there, you shouldn't have much issue. Again, this is where the forums take part. Officers and members need to be just as active on the forums as they are in game. Without it, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that you'd begin to quickly lose sight as to what your LS is doing/is.

Molt has a point with giving the members something, but to be honest, I'm more in favor of that happening ICly. Anytime we received new members, we would hold new recruit ceremonies (when we had enough people) for new members. Failing that, I'd go out of my way to help and train that character and player by providing them with gear and weapons free of charge. It pays off to have a crafting class :3 Also, as a community, we were actively aiding not just new members, but each other. Self sufficiency as a linkshell is one traits that comes with a LS of this nature when you treat it as a community rather than a guild.

There is a lot to be said, and since I'm better at talking about it rather than typing, I'll just leave it here for the time being.

In any case, if your interested, you can find our old forums here. Hopefully it can give you some ideas Smile

Ravyne · **01-22-2013, 03:06 PM**

Not to speak up for Siobhain, as she can respond to the vast majority of those long and helpful posts, but we(Divine Aegis) are indeed working on a forum. What that is used for is ultimately up to the head honchos, but I am the one building it, when time permits, lol. It is coming though! The suggestion for making it an HQ for IC purposes is definitely a good one and something I am sure we can make happen! I would like to see something like that, and if Siobhain does, then we won't have trouble convincing the GM.

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **01-22-2013, 04:49 PM**

Ustarte you're completely welcome to sign up, when we have anything prepared. ^_^ I'll keep you updated.

@ Molt--

That -was- a long post. On the matter of Free Companies and Linkshells-- well, my experience in the past has been with 'legit' guilds, so to speak, with the roster and the ranks and so on, and if Free Companies fill that title, that's likely what the guild as a whole will be. I see the potential downside of starting a linkshell on the side for roleplay, that it could very well turn out that it's two 'guilds' with the same name but for the comfort of PVE'ers and in the interest of the RP'ers, that would likely just be the route we've have to go. The RP'ers should have access to the PVE goings-on and events that they might wish to be included in, whereas if a PVE'er is interested in the roleplaying aspect of things, they will always come in (no matter how long they've been in the Divine Aegis) as a 'new member', not recognized by the rest in character until they consciously decide to make the jump into roleplay.

We intend to separate RP'ers and PVE'ers and I've stated that if it boils right down to it, I'll just have to make a separate RP guild. With the option of FCs AND linkshells, I can uphold that threat AND not have to leave G'erard to his own lonely devices. I agree that it might be complicated to some people, but I hope they can understand that for the benefits of having extraneous people readily available to help you or answer questions about things some super hardcore roleplayers may not know, and the potential to join in a raid without having to find yet another group to join (or can you pug people?) or pugging will outweigh any minor hassles by having a side-shell. Also, they'll be able to roleplay with others while they level and though we're separating the PVE/RP aspects of the guild, I -do- intend to help people level first hand, as many as I can as frequently as I can, and I expect the same out of any higher level rp'ers at least every once in a while.

A lot of the development for the guild will likely only come after having members, but without a good foundation to start out with in the lore (and I should have specified that the lore is a big part of what I don't have yet) I'm not sure much of anyone is going to -want- to join. I'm a great salesmen and all, and I believe the wrong plan is better than no plan so I'm doing some research and such but I've got to keep in mind we might end up with no more than a handful of people at the end of the day and how will I keep that handful as happy as a few dozen?

Also, I really like some of the ideas you offered and I'll give them some thought-- though I don't think the Aegis would have been an entity before G'erard came up with it. We might take over some ruined area as an HQ both as a setting for non-present roleplay and for guild meetings.

@Mtoto-

You're very much right on very many things, like Molt, and I see it. I've been in Noble House guilds before, as a guard and as a counselor but not in a military guild. As a militia, it will likely be much more 'loosely' organized in a sense, with more verbal requests and given missions than reports and such, though I do like them and if you don't mind, may implement them to some lesser extent.

There's also a standing problem that, I really can't build a whole section for the scholarly pursuits before we find anyone with scholarly pursuits. It may turn out that everyone who joins wants to be a 'soldier' of sorts and then one poor guy with his book in the dark and one dim candle-- now I'm depressed. G'erard's whole thing is 'the pursuit of knowledge; seeing the past to change the future' and though Shiv can roll with that, she's not at all the intellectual type and thus wouldn't be great at telling others -how- to obtain or filter information. That whole side of our guild may just have to be turned solely to information gathering about noteworthy individuals in Eorzea (player characters), teaching each other how to be better at their classes, and diplomacy with other guilds until I can find someone willing to participate in the guild to help me, ICly as well as OOCly with that aspect.

I have a horrible tendency to micro-manage, which has pros and cons. Usually, there's never a guild I've officered in or led that had members I didn't know within two days of their joining. Also, I've managed to defuse a lot of OOC drama by maintaining more than an open door policy with people. On the other side, I tend to get really caught up trying to help people in one aspect to the extent of sometimes neglecting another (like helping a group level or complete quests and neglecting a group who wants the leader there in character for roleplay). As you've said, people tend to -want- responsibility when they're recognized for their hard work and I really would like those higher level people to help newer members in and out of character. I can't force it, but I can motivate--

In short, both you and Moltove (as well as several others) simply have a much better idea of the world and the setting than I do. So without access to someone who is putting forth effort into making this guild work who has that information, I'm sort of at the mercy of the game's release before anything is set in stone.

I agree forum roleplay can be important-- forums are important in general to keep people up to date and I know we'll have one. I personally dislike forum roleplay when it tends to make people think that they don't have to be present in game OR they are roleplaying something that has an outcome that can interfere with the in game time line (example: it might take a week or two to complete a mission in a forum and you might obtain an injury that should appear in character within a day or two). Those can be worked around, but only if people spend as much time if not more time in game than on the forum.

Forum roleplay is good, in my mind, for people who want some extraneous character development in their spare time with someone who might otherwise be busy, for leveling roleplayers who want to reach end-game level before really dedicating themselves to in game rp and for fleshing out backgrounds. I don't see myself demanding others to participate regularly in the forums other than to keep up to date on events that they should be able to know in character (letters, summons, 'mission reports', new allies, etc.) but I can and will encourage it.

Ravyne's right, and as I said, I'll likely look into an HQ setting once the game is released and I can get a good perspective of what the damage is/changes are.

Thank you for your guys' input and I'll definitely scan through your forums, Mtoto.

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