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Houdart Grimfang · **10-10-2016, 01:00 AM**

Hello! As a new forum member, I've been settling in and checking the many things it has to offer. I'm very impressed! Big Grin

I'd like to discuss a couple ideas that I have regarding my main character. Since 2.0, I have somewhat of a barebones summary of him, and I'm filling in the gaps as I go. However, I've now reached a wall in my progress of filling in his summary that I'd like help with.Â

I'm concerned with scaring away possible friends and RPers with one of Houdart's defining traits: I practically have it set in stone that he's a free Paladin who lives by his oath of protecting the meek, but that's not the part I'm worried about. The potential deal breaker is the fact that he's also capable of manipulating the Abyss, but not more or less compared to a Dark Knight with moderate combat experience.

Would this make Houdart overpowered, annoy RP vets, or even spit in the face of lore?Â Dazed

This "problem" has its roots beginning from when I decided to take RPGs even more seriously and immerse myself. I Gave D&D 4E a try, and binged on its lore; I immediately fell in love with the concept of the Paladin. However, I also read up on its opposite: the Blackguard(or AntiPaladin). Despite its evil nature, I took a long look at its themes and thought: "Why couldn't there be a good variant of the Blackguard that still uses darkness as well?" Sadly, I don't think this class will ever exist outside of homebrew, but that's a different subject. Â

On a side note, tanking has been my favorite RPG team role for as long as I've known. When DRK was announced as a tank, I felt like it was Christmas. I now main both it and PLD. I have one more question that could possibly eliminate my doubts altogether, though: is having two main jobs (both being tanks only) to fully gear each with their own Anima weapon a good idea? Both jobs are past item level 200 and are at the 4th Anima step. I know the question may seem unrelated to this thread, but insight would help me immensely.Â

I apologize for all the questions and the long read. Sad

Â Thanks for reading, advice, or both.

TLDR: Is the trait in bold not a good idea to include for myÂ character, considering he is also a free Paladin? Could this be adjusted to reduce the possible lore conflicts as much as possible if there are any? Would having two mains that are both tanks and fully geared with their own Anima weapon be a bad idea?Â

Valence · **10-10-2016, 04:38 AM**

What do you call the Abyss? The Void?

Also no, don't worry, I don't see what gameplay jobs and roles have to do with roleplay beyond the simple appearance and attires you can get out of them... Unless you plan to play all those jobs ICly altogether...

Houdart Grimfang · **10-10-2016, 08:13 AM**

Thanks for the response Valence! I didn't know what to call DRK's power source. I've seen it named as the Void, Abyss, or simply Darkness.

I'm now thinking of ways to implement this properly IF it seems reasonable. Another idea that I have planned with this mind involves multiple internal conflicts for him, as well as firmly clinging on to his moral compass.

SicketySix · **10-10-2016, 08:25 AM**

Unless I'm misunderstanding what's posted, and I may be wrong, (and I probably am) But if you are referring to having all the powers of darkness that a DRK has, without actually being one, I think that may be a bit of a stretch. DRKs need mentors to teach them how to control the darkness and not allow it to consume them.

Without that mentor to teach you how to control it, the darkness will completely consume you and you'll just be a shell of your former self.

But like I said, somebodycan lore check this because I'm not sure of it myself.

Houdart Grimfang · **10-10-2016, 08:33 AM**

Thanks for the feedback, Sickety. I actually am planning on Houdart having a mentor before he makes his first connection with the darkness. I forgot to mention that, and I probably left out more details as well that I'll only remember when somebody mentions them. Frustrated

Sorry about that.

Virella · **10-10-2016, 08:39 AM**

Your loresnob coming in here.

Being a Dark Knight, NOT from Ishgard, is going to be absurdly hard. The class, just like Dragoon, Monk/Fist of Rhalgr, is bound to a nation, and created for a very specific purpose. Their knowledge isn't just for the grabbing. On top of that, Ishgard shunned outsiders like mad. The Questline of DRK is probably a fucking terrible example of a DRK, and I really wish they've gone with a native Ishgardian instead of their posterboy au ra edgelord. Free Paladins are strongly connected to Ul'dah next to that.

Dark Knights at the end of the days are folk who are, or were, dealing with Ishgard's issues. We haven't seen examples of them bothering with anything else. Whereas some argue that we can have them outside Ishgard, I'm too much of a snob to agree with that. Fighting styles and philosophies are only bound to one place after all, due to the circumstances they were created. Sure, they could have... left Ishgard, but that defeats the purpose of being a Dark Knight completely.

I'm sure some Free Paladin who has been trained in Ul'dah could technically travel to Ishgard after the gates opened in 2.5. He could have found a mentor/soulstone. But he'd probably wouldn't be anywhere as good compared to an Ishgardian DRK who has more years under their belt.

That said, DRK don't use the Void. That's just player headcanon shitting over lore. They are just very emotion driven, and pull their powers from emotions. There is no way returning from submitting to said darkness.

Basically yeah, you could do this from a lore point of view. But would it be a character I'd like to be around? I'm going to be bluntly, and say no. Then again, Ishgard and Ala Mhigo are my babies, so I get really picky with these things. But yeah, it is possible, but I just don't think it would make for a good character.

However... seeming I see you play a highlander, I could suggest something to make it work! Just... you would have to drop the Free Paladin part.

Lots of Ala Mhigans also fled to Coerthas. Whereas it is not directly Ishgard, if you go with the route of being a refugee in living in Ishgard's territory, it would be soooo much easier and logical for your character to have ran into a DRK who would take him as their student.

That said, I do know a shitton of people who simply have DRK levelled for the sake of holding a two-hander, and don't RP a DRK at all, but a simple swordsman instead. I got several classes levelled on my characters just for the RP gear. I wouldn't be too concerned about your 'OOC' class.

Best of luck o/

Valence · **10-10-2016, 10:30 AM**

Ok, so, yeah, I mistook you trying to talk about the Void thus my confusion...

So yes, DRKs have nothing to do with the Void powers, and just draw their own powers from their emotions. To be more accurate, they draw their ideals from a creed of righteousness not much different from an actual knight (thus the name), and their powers from what they call their inner Darkside, which is the manifestation of their dark emotions (rage, injustice, etc). Maybe it is called the Abyss though, but I don't remember any mention of that when I did the MSQ.

***Nero*** · **10-10-2016, 10:42 AM**

Dark Knights as they are in-game--warriors who use the power of their emotions to draw on magic and wield two-handed swords to punish evildoers--are more or less strictly a product of Ishgardian culture. A Dark Knight is basically Ishgardian Batman, though focused more on straight-out "pay evil unto evil" punishment than justice.

Dark Knights don't use void powers. They use their own internal source of aether to fuel the magic they have access to, and the Dark Knight soul crystal channels and focuses their darker emotions to provide form for the spells.

If your goal is to be a "magic knight" type of character, then your character will either need a background in a magic class, a Paladin (in which case the magic isn't offensive magic but defensive conjury), or mentored by a Dark Knight.

Kilieit · **10-10-2016, 10:44 AM**

Very smol early DRK RPer here so I'll shut up and listen for the most part, but I wanted to add, WRT "the abyss":

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Gegenji · **10-10-2016, 12:22 PM**

Just an idea I thought I'd throw out there: if you like the idea of an Anti-Paladin, why don't you use the DRK class as a "base" and effectively play one? Rather than cling to the existing classes and jobs, you could mechanically be one thing while ICly being another. Then you really wouldn't have to worry about the stigmas of being a DRK and not from Ishgard and whatnot.

Since both are tanks, you can dress up your DRK in Paladin-looking gear (minus the ACTUAL PLD gear because of job restrictions, of course) and still call yourself a Paladin. Then you just have your character use more... aggressive magic or what-have-you rather than the Paladin's usual healing set. Perhaps learned from a brief stint at the Thaumaturges' Guild - or perhaps taught to you by friends/family.

Just thoughts.

Houdart Grimfang · **10-10-2016, 03:01 PM**

Whoa, thanks for the responses, everyone! I took one nap, and this thread got filled quickly! Big Grin

@Virella: Ul'dah and Ishgard are my favorite regions too! Moogle

If dropping Houdart's status as a free Paladin would help, I'll do it in a heartbeat. I just assumed that if he remained a Paladin of the Sultana, he'd be primarily confined to Ul'dah. During his backstory, I am planning on having him live there and eventually be emotionally connected to the region though.

I also wanted him to eventually live primarily in Ishgard years afterwards, and having him be a refugee would be an excellent way to justify this in my opinion. Perhaps he could also lower the suspicions and hostility of the Ishgardians by revealing his firm faith in Halone, or even a trial by combat.

@Valence: Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification! Smile

To reduce confusion, I'm going to personally call the power source Inner Darkside or simply Dark; the former may be a better name though.

@Nero: Thanks for the explanation! I understood that those strong emotions are what fuels DRK's abilities, but I didn't know the proper name for them. The archetype I'm going for is a "grey knight"; a knight capable of wielding the standard holy magic a Paladin uses and as well as the type of magic a Dark Knight uses. I'd probably have Houdart's growth as a DRK be hindered a bit, considering his already established affinity towards light, IF that makes sense lore-wise.

@Kilieit You may be right! Reading over it again, "abyss" sounds more like a metaphor in the context of that situation.

@Gegenji Great idea! I've certainly planned on making RP specific armor sets, but I'd like my item level to be as high as possible before I make use of my glamour prisms. Blush

Thanks again for the responses everyone! If there are any other adjustments that you recommend, please feel free to tell me! Driving away other RPers is not what i'd want to do!

Valence · **10-10-2016, 03:19 PM**

I have a hard time seeing an actual paladin, free or not, to end up as a refugee... I mean, Uld'ah is not exactly in a state of carnage so... Paladin refugees sound a bit weird to me. And, do you seriously see someone with the expertise and knowledge and skill, as rare as a paladin, to end up homeless in the street?

Nothing prevents your free paladin to end up in Ishgard now that Thordan re-opened the gate to outsiders and whatnot. There, he can certainly get acclimated to the ishgardian life and customs, that could have grown on him enough for him to actually stay, and maybe get a status among its citizens by his simple deeds.

I mean, a paladin probably has a lot in common with ishgard values and can impose himself as honorable and all enough for him to start working for a noble house for example. It's actually a super good way to introduce him in the ishgardian society in the purest lore friendly manner as we have seen many high houses take adventurers and even Hildibrand as Wards under their protection and service!

There, once that done, you can start playing with the idea of meeting a dark knight mentor, etc etc.

I think that can be a great way to actually play that in roleplay, instead of directly inserting it in the backstory... Oh well, maybe it's just me though. But the Ward of a noble house idea, I think, is the cleanest and full of fluff.

Sounsyy · **10-10-2016, 07:17 PM**

Thought I'd link lore compilations on both Paladins and Dark Knights for you. Take elements from each and see how best you'd think the concepts in this world would work or play out with the storyline you'd like to play.

-Dark Knight Lore
-Paladin / Sultansworn Lore*

*Something weird happened in the formatting of this one where the quoted post shows up randomly inside my own post. It appears just fine when read in reblog mode or on a dashboard, just not from a blog- do apologize for that but the lore is there.

Hope this helps! ^^

A Request for Help and a Question

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes