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TheWizard · **07-02-2014, 05:22 PM**

Hello! I decided to give MNK a shot since you rarely see it endgame and was curious about the hate it gets. Well now I'm an i90 MNK and must say that I understand what makes them difficult: you NEED to be able to dodge a wrench if you are ever going to dodge a ball.

Hate aside though, I was wondering if anyone had any tips for successful monking that I haven't heard of already. I've been looking at macros and have been getting better at dodging but I also am curious about which cross-class skills I should rush for. I currently have invigorate and fracture and am working for mercy stroke.

I also would like some help with Turn 5 if at all possible, I have beaten Turns 1 through 4 and am functioning under the impression that having people who know what they are doing and how to work together is vital for success. I have watched videos of it several times and have personally gotten as far as the snakes but we didn't have a magic LB and died. I have been watching PF for almost a week and haven't seen any groups that would be willing to take on a learning monk... or any monk at all since MNK and DRG are excluded from PF requirements a lot >.>

My current raiding setup is:
Sphairai Zenith
Allagan Visor of Striking
Melee Cyclas
Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
Hero's Belt of Striking
Weathered Gloam Brias
Melee Boots
Allagan Choker of Striking
Hero's Earrings of Slaying
Hero's Bracelet of Slaying
Hero's Ring of Slaying
Allagan Ring of Striking

Stats can be found here http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/...r/7677797/

Really I'm wanting to do T5 for the Allagan Cuirass Of Striking to complete the set for RP purposes so even IF I get the top and not the weapon I would be fine and could try again at a later time for the weapon if need be.

Thank you in advance!

Kage · **07-02-2014, 05:33 PM**

Sorry I don't do Monk... and I especially don't do T5 as a monk...

But what is your issues with Monk in T5 you think? Are you sure it's not just the PUGs' failings? If you don't have Mage LB2 for the snakes, you're already in trouble. That's not your fault.

When I get in-game I'll try to get in touch with a Monk I used to run end-game with. I respect the player a lot and they've cleared T5 many times. :3 Might be able to post here or pass some tips along.

I guess PUGs are just afraid of getting bad Melee players (which seems to be a DRG stigma). During the phase with Dreadnaughts and twisters, it's all one-shot mechanics. It's especially bad if your melee is stunned (and targeted) by the dread sometimes because well... the melee would be close to Twin which is usually right on top of where the Dreads spawn... One shot mechanics :c It also does not help with twisters because of the close proximity. So that's just my guess. But it's entirely possible to do it with people who are good. 2 PLD + 1 MNK + DRG + 1 SCH + 1 WHM + 1 BRD + 1 BLM = CLEAR just fine.

ArmachiA · **07-02-2014, 05:33 PM**

I run with two monks regularly, one who helps the FC clear Twintania regularly. It's absolutely possible but the Monk (Or any melee) HAS to be more wary of their surroundings.

You can still get the snakes down in time without the magical caster LB. The Monk or the DRG should limit break on of the SECOND set of snakes that drops, and that should give your team enough time to dps it down.

Monks should always be wary of the stacks the snakes give, or you'll die during the transition from Snakes to Twisters. Run away from the snake when it's about to die. I know the instinct is to stay and wail at it, but you can't dps when your dead.

For Twisters/dreads - this is probably the hardest phase, you want to be near Twin and wailing on her during Twisters (Our monk runs in a small circle while Twisters is up so he doesn't path with the tank) then run AWAY when you know dreadknight is going to spawn, if you don't run away fast enough and you get stunned, the paladin won't be able to stun it enough before it kills you and the raid will wipe because if you die there isn't enough dps to compensate. So gat away from the center when you know dreads is coming, and run to the edge of the arena.

I don't know about hate really, as long as your a good Melee then it doesn't matter in the end. I run with 2 monks and a DRG and have cleared T5 and T6 with both of them. It's really just learning the fight and knowing your job.

Having a monk who knows what they are doing mechanics wise is boss because Monk dps. MMMMM.

Uhh... I'm not sure if I helped at all (Since I run bard) maybe I should drag Kondo to this thread...

Melkire · **07-02-2014, 05:34 PM**

1. Don't ever macro as Monk. Greased Lightning will screw you over with varying skillspeed.

2. Ideal crossclass, imo, is:

Invigorate
Blood for Blood
Fracture
Mercy Stroke
Bloodbath

Not necessarily in that order. Take Fracture first for low-level synced dungeons and use it when TP consumption allows for it.

3. Find a static that wants a MNKÂ for T5. MNK gives ridiculous damage output, right up there with SMN and DRG+BRD. Haven't cleared T5 myself yet, otherwise I'd give you tips. What I can tell you: time it so that all of your offensive CDs are going to be up for when you need to burn Asclepius (sp?) down. IR, B4B, etc.

Monk isn't difficult so much as demanding. You have four debuffs and numerous buffs to keep up at all times, you have positional and rotationalÂ requirements to maximize your DPS, etc.

Good luck with T5!

Kage · **07-02-2014, 05:36 PM**

(07-02-2014, 05:33 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: maybe I should drag Kondo to this thread...

>.>; I was going to send him a tell when I got home but... you're better off doing that instead. Whoops.

Gonna name drop. I'zumi Kondo is a great fucking Monk. If you can catch Kondo when available and can help ya, you'll do just fine in end game with monk. I'm sure of it.

M'raj · **07-02-2014, 06:53 PM**

I main MNK.

MNK pride all the way. I could say more about why it is an amazing class, ( Gearsets, Dragon Kick, DPS output, demanding yet rewarding playstyle ) but I'm afraid that I'd likely be overzealous and rub some BRD, DRG, or BLM the wrong way.

I also did exactly what you're trying to do now last month - and have a complete allagan set to show for it.

So, Turn 5.

Required Cross-class Skill: Invigorate. You'll need the TP.

Chances are you've noticed that there is usually only one melee DPS slot in most PF groups. Basically, you have to beat some other melee to the spot, which is difficult enough to begin with. I've seen that some MNKs just host their own party to ensure that they get the melee slot, but if you're not that familiar with the turn ( and say as much ) it may be difficult to get people to join. It may be painful, but learning groups will get you through the basic phases of the turn and that's all good experience (usually).

Anyway, I'll list out the MNK tips you need to know for the fight. Some have already been listed, but I'll try to flesh those out a bit more if I can.

[ * ] Starting out, depending on your group setup ( 1 tank / 2 tanks ) you'll want to let tank(s) get hate and position the lesser adds off in a group or around Twintania. After holding off for a few seconds, move in and build GL on the first add or, if you're eager to down them, use Perfect Balance ( You can pop it now or save it for conflag phase. 3 minute cooldown, so it'll likely be available if you use it early ). The most important thing here is to avoid the liquid hells thrown out while you're DPS'ing. If you're lucky, you won't be targeted too often.

Most importantly though, you need to make sure you aren't directly under / in front of Twintania when DPS'ing or you can get plummeted along with the tank. Watch for when the tank turns her ( left / right ) to move her to the next phase position. Also, if you're out in the middle / side when the adds go down you can 'Shoulder Tackle' back to Twin to keep your stacks up.

[ * ] Next phase, just wail on Twin alongside the others ( split into groups for conflag of course. Compositions vary, but there's not too much to do here as a MNK other than do max DPS and move if and when you get the conflag icon. )

This is also where Perfect Balance can come into play - if you get stuck in the conflag column of fire you're sure to lose your stacks. So, when free of the conflagration, you can pop Perfect Balance to get back into fighting form or, depending on the timing, you can hold off and slowly build back up GL stacks ( You want PB for when the DPS race on the snakes begins after divebomb phase, so consider whether you'll have time for the 3 minute cooldown )

[ * ] When Twin flies off to begin divebomb phase you'll be huddled up with all the others and have the 3 snakes appear. This phase is very important as you'll want to do as much damage to the main snake as possible before the next phase begins. So, first thing to do is ignore the two lesser snakes. Let the other DPS whittle them down. Your focus should be on the main one. Now, there are two ways to do this. One, you can stay grouped with others and hit him from the front ( lower dps, and the tank will need to have moved the snakes into melee range so you can be grouped with others and still attack). Two, you can move behind main snake and do as much dps as possible before Twin divebombs. A divebomb timer ( or having someone else letting group know when divebombs are incoming is great here ). With this method you can spend 20-30 seconds behind the snake, and then 10-20 seconds before twin starts divebombs you move back to group.

[ * ] Next phase is where you *have* to be doing your max DPS. Let tank move snakes into position and then start DPS'ing ( can open with PB or wait save it for main snake - your call ). BLM or other caster will LB and immediately ( or shortly after ) the snakes will begin to die. You don't want to be close when this happens as you'll get stacks of the debuff. Back away a few seconds before they drop to avoid this. When main snake has 4 stacks (ideally) of debuff, dps him hard.

Be aware of your position in the field. You'll need time to make it to the neurolink before Twin swoops back in. Do as much DPS as you can, but if it's close, throw on a DoT or two and let ranged finish it.
At this point, if you haven't already, you MUST have Twin focus-targeted so that you'll be aware of twister casts in the next phase.

[ * ] When Twister and Dread Phase begins quickly move along the outer edge ( avoiding bumping into others ) to dodge twister. Move over to flank of Twin, but be mindful of your position in relation to the center of the arena. A dread will drop right in the center and if you get rooted in place by Twin you'll need to be far enough away that the tank and dps can kill the dread before it reaches you.Â

The Main Tank can help you a bit here by positioning twin off-center a bit or turning her flank / rear away from the center to give you a comfortable place to dps without fear of being terminally close should a dread come for you.

When it's safe to do so, you'll be responsible for dps'ing down the dread. As a melee, twisters are a concern for both you and the Off-tank ( if there is one ) so, even while dps'ing, watch for the twister cast. If it starts while you and the OT are close together, move away from them till it's over and then move back in. Also try to keep track of ground you've gone over, watch for 'landmine' zones you and the OT may have created and weave through those areas accordingly. You have some freedom to choose where these zones are, so keep that in mind when moving around the center areas.

[ * ] After the twister / dread phase ends, you can breathe again. Take up a position at Twin's rear / flank and DPS. Only thing you have to watch out for is Liquid Hell spam from Twin - if this happens run around the sides of the arena, taking care to 'blaze' a trail that doesn't hit other party members. Once Twin finishes, move back in.Â

One thing to note is that during this phase the OT (or you, if there's only one tank) will be absorbing 'hatches' in the neurolink beneath Twin. If you're dpsing by Twin, don't get too close when they explode - I think I remember seeing a DRG get insta-killed by the hatch explosion once.

If you're in the neuro playing stand-in for the OTÂ - just ensure no hatches get out. Block them with your body while doing ( significantly nerfed) DPS to Twin.

Lastly, as soon as LB2 is available, unleash it on Twin to end her a little faster.Â

If all goes well, you'll have cleared the turn!

** ...and get to see what the loot drops are. For me, the allagan chest took 15+ tries. The allagan weapon I got on my second clear. In any case, odds are you'll get plenty of practice with the turn. Good luck!

Kage · **07-02-2014, 06:58 PM**

Oh right, just in case, if you're the one unleashing LB AND standing in the neurolink... don't worry about the debuff. Just unleash the lb while you're standing in it. No worries. It's not going to be an issue.

TheWizard · **07-02-2014, 07:46 PM**

Hmmm ok cool. Some of this I knew and some I didn't but its good to see it regardless.

Hmm I suppose the best I can do is keep trying and hope to get lucky if I can't find anyone in need of a MNK.

Merri · **07-02-2014, 09:03 PM**

I teeechnically main Monk, though I only get to play it in Turn 8, and warrior in 6,7, and 9. However! Most people covered the majority of what you need. I'll re-iterate what Osric said in that you never want to use macros on a Monk. Our GCD doesn't work with it, and you'll murder your potential DPS. Really for Turn 5 it just boils down to knowing your rotation. If you don't have a bard running Paeon, you'll likely be TP starved using fracture. Once you start hitting late endgame (I.E coil 6+), fracture becomes absolute garbage. Even on T8, I can't fit in touch of death without TP starving myself halfway through. Hell, even with keeping invigorate on a proper CD and our bard's paeon, I'm usually TP starved just as we kill the avatar.

Monk is a beast if played properly, though. We've had horrible luck with monk drops in coil 2, and I only have my earrings, mask, and belt at this point. All of our DPS has their i110 weapons at this point except for me (and my first sand is likely going to my axe this week anyhow) and I still top out DPS with my Sphairai Animus. If you play monk well, you'll more or less leave everyone else in the dust, no questions asked. As far as straight numbers go, we are the most potent job in the game at the moment. If you want actual rotation help, I'd be more than happy to sit down with you in-game some time when I'm free and show you the ropes.

Anyhow. With Twin, it just comes down to practice. The echo buff makes her a complete joke in the DPS department so long as you have a group of people who know their job's proper rotations. I don't really have experience with PuGs as I've always had my static, but I imagine it'd boil down to just having good synergy with your group for twisters. If you have multiple melee, generally you'll want to designate who gets which side of Twin so you're not on top of each other when twisters are going off. Just have good positional awareness and you'll be set. Know where your teammates are and don't run into 'em. :>

M'raj Wrote:** ...and get to see what the loot drops are. For me, the allagan chest took 15+ tries. The allagan weapon I got on my second clear. In any case, odds are you'll get plenty of practice with the turn. Good luck!

Took me 45 clears to see the Allag fists drop. About 15 of those were pre-2.2 when it was still one week per clear. Going on nine weeks in coil 2 and I haven't seen my high allag body, gloves, or boots yet, either. :<

RNG can die in a fire.

TheWizard · **07-02-2014, 09:22 PM**

(07-02-2014, 09:03 PM)Merri Wrote: I teeechnically main Monk, though I only get to play it in Turn 8, and warrior in 6,7, and 9. However! Most people covered the majority of what you need. I'll re-iterate what Osric said in that you never want to use macros on a Monk. Our GCD doesn't work with it, and you'll murder your potential DPS. Really for Turn 5 it just boils down to knowing your rotation. If you don't have a bard running Paeon, you'll likely be TP starved using fracture. Once you start hitting late endgame (I.E coil 6+), fracture becomes absolute garbage. Even on T8, I can't fit in touch of death without TP starving myself halfway through. Hell, even with keeping invigorate on a proper CD and our bard's paeon, I'm usually TP starved just as we kill the avatar.

Monk is a beast if played properly, though. We've had horrible luck with monk drops in coil 2, and I only have my earrings, mask, and belt at this point. All of our DPS has their i110 weapons at this point except for me (and my first sand is likely going to my axe this week anyhow) and I still top out DPS with my Sphairai Animus. If you play monk well, you'll more or less leave everyone else in the dust, no questions asked. As far as straight numbers go, we are the most potent job in the game at the moment. If you want actual rotation help, I'd be more than happy to sit down with you in-game some time when I'm free and show you the ropes.

Anyhow. With Twin, it just comes down to practice. The echo buff makes her a complete joke in the DPS department so long as you have a group of people who know their job's proper rotations. I don't really have experience with PuGs as I've always had my static, but I imagine it'd boil down to just having good synergy with your group for twisters. If you have multiple melee, generally you'll want to designate who gets which side of Twin so you're not on top of each other when twisters are going off. Just have good positional awareness and you'll be set. Know where your teammates are and don't run into 'em. :>

M'raj Wrote:** ...and get to see what the loot drops are. For me, the allagan chest took 15+ tries. The allagan weapon I got on my second clear. In any case, odds are you'll get plenty of practice with the turn. Good luck!

Took me 45 clears to see the Allag fists drop. About 15 of those were pre-2.2 when it was still one week per clear. Going on nine weeks in coil 2 and I haven't seen my high allag body, gloves, or boots yet, either. :<

RNG can die in a fire.

Wow that's more successful runs of that than I can fathom... but yeah I wouldn't mind talking to you, my monk is Aurelia Domna. I hope the RNG gods are fair to me...

Melkire · **07-02-2014, 09:22 PM**

My experience with Fracture and TP on T5:

You can apply Fracture to Twin all the way through conflag phase, provided you make careful use of Invigorate (pop it at 600, then pop it thereafter whenever it comes up and you're 600 or below, read: always). Keeping up another DoT on Twin just means that much more DPS.

Downtime from the boss jumping (read: transition into divebomb phase) and the need to avoid DoTing the little snakes past a certain health % generally means you're not Fracturing at that point (Touch of Death is the better DoT over a longer period of time anyway) 'cept on the big snake.

Haven't broken into Twisters/Dreadknights/Hatch yet, but I've experienced little to no issue with TP starvation in T5 before that point, even on runs when I go without getting Conflag on me.

In general though, priority for DoT abilities:

Demolish (w/ rear bonus) > Touch of DeathÂ > Demolish (w/o rear bonus) > Fracture

I apply all three DoTs to anything beefy in T1, T2, T4, and T5. No TP issues there with proper Invig usage. MOST IMPORTANT THING TO KEEP IN MIND: don't get your mind in a rut over "rotations". This is a common mistake I'veÂ seen in my relatively short time playing MMOs. You don't ALWAYS have to apply Fracture, or ALWAYS keep it up. Is your TP dipping dangerously low? Leave out Fracture for a while 'til you stabilize, and if you find yourself some breathing room to start weaving it back in, do so.

Of course, as Merri pointed out already, the further into endgame you go, the less valuable those DoTs are per-GCD. Eventually, you reach a point where a single Bootshine/True Strike/Snap Punch/whatever is worth more than Fracture. If that point is T6, then you're better off leaving it out altogether at that point.Â Â

But for T5? If I'm on-target on Twin and I'm in the groove, maintaining all the debuffs, DoTs, and self-buffs? Top of the DPS chart, if the aggro table is any indication (I don't parse).

EDIT: if any of this is wrong, someone please correct me! preferably with maths. =D

TheWizard · **07-02-2014, 09:35 PM**

(07-02-2014, 09:22 PM)Melkire Wrote: My experience with Fracture and TP on T5:

You can apply Fracture to Twin all the way through conflag phase, provided you make careful use of Invigorate (pop it at 600, then pop it thereafter whenever it comes up and you're 600 or below, read: always). Keeping up another DoT on Twin just means that much more DPS.

Downtime from the boss jumping (read: transition into divebomb phase) and the need to avoid DoTing the little snakes past a certain health % generally means you're not Fracturing at that point (Touch of Death is the better DoT over a longer period of time anyway) 'cept on the big snake.

Haven't broken into Twisters/Dreadknights/Hatch yet, but I've experienced little to no issue with TP starvation in T5 before that point, even on runs when I go without getting Conflag on me.

In general though, priority for DoT abilities:

Demolish (w/ rear bonus) > Touch of DeathÂ > Demolish (w/o rear bonus) > Fracture

I apply all three DoTs to anything beefy in T1, T2, T4, and T5. No TP issues there with proper Invig usage. MOST IMPORTANT THING TO KEEP IN MIND: don't get your mind in a rut over "rotations". This is a common mistake I'veÂ seen in my relatively short time playing MMOs. You don't ALWAYS have to apply Fracture, or ALWAYS keep it up. Is your TP dipping dangerously low? Leave out Fracture for a while 'til you stabilize, and if you find yourself some breathing room to start weaving it back in, do so.

Of course, as Merri pointed out already, the further into endgame you go, the less valuable those DoTs are per-GCD. Eventually, you reach a point where a single Bootshine/True Strike/Snap Punch/whatever is worth more than Fracture. If that point is T6, then you're better off leaving it out altogether at that point.Â Â

But for T5? If I'm on-target on Twin and I'm in the groove, maintaining all the debuffs, DoTs, and self-buffs? Top of the DPS chart, if the aggro table is any indication (I don't parse).

EDIT: if any of this is wrong, someone please correct me! preferably with maths. =D

Hmm interesting. I don't really intend on raiding past T5 on my MNK as I main a SCH, however MNK is so much fun I MAY change my mind.

Monk Tips and Turn 5 Help

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes