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Rhostel · **06-24-2013, 10:40 PM**

I, uh, don't feel comfortable with that edit of my post, FG. It emphasises things in an unbalanced way, and might reshape readers interpretation of my thoughts.

Also, it's missing a correction I made. >_>

ForestGuardian · **06-24-2013, 10:43 PM**

(06-24-2013, 10:40 PM)Rhostel Wrote: I, uh, don't feel comfortable with that edit of my post, FG. It emphasises things in an unbalanced way, and might reshape readers interpretation of my thoughts.

Also, it's missing a correction I made. >_>

I'm sorry, I was highlighting the things I most agreed with and wanted people to look at. Fixed.

Rhostel · **06-24-2013, 10:45 PM**

(06-24-2013, 10:43 PM)ForestGuardian Wrote:
(06-24-2013, 10:40 PM)Rhostel Wrote: I, uh, don't feel comfortable with that edit of my post, FG. It emphasises things in an unbalanced way, and might reshape readers interpretation of my thoughts.

Also, it's missing a correction I made. >_>

I'm sorry, I was highlighting the things I most agreed with and wanted people to look at. Fixed.

Thanks!

Uther · **06-24-2013, 10:46 PM**

I still don't see why this thread got onto the subject of Ryanti's feelings. It should be pretty obvious to everyone that the world of Hydaelyn supports both pretty and rugged character choices and everyone has their own play style.Â

It's baffling to me that this became a debate, and that it morphed from that into a large-scale discussion dissecting the psychology of Ryanti and his motives for posting what he did.Â

He spoke his mind. Whatever. Who cares? We've all got opinions.

ArmachiA · **06-24-2013, 10:46 PM**

I think Rhostel is right, it really sounds to me like the poster had a bad experience in other games and doesn't want one here for playing a "pretty" character.

Though if we get down to the baseline of it, all the characters in FFXIV are pretty. It's nearly impossible to not make a super glossy, super stylized, super pretty something. Roegadyn and Roega-dame's are still quite pretty in the visual sense. They still have glossy hair, perfect skin, an ample and perky rack, and 6 pack abs. Highlander male's look less barbarian and more "cover of a romance novel" buff. It's really all in how we interpret our own characters - be it rugged, sexy, cute, battleworn, or just average.

Orlog · **06-24-2013, 10:59 PM**

(06-24-2013, 10:05 PM)ForestGuardian Wrote: I'm not saying that this is what you said, or what you meant, but this is how what you said could be interpreted, and how it could provoke defensive responses.

...Really? Again, I find myself completely baffled over how stating an OPINION and ASKING OTHERS ON THEIR INPUT would be viewed as an attack at all.

Anyway, you'll notice that all of these things that were said above by myself were said with an "I think" or "In my opinion" or anything along the lines of "to me". In no stretch of the imagination was this an attack, unless you were purposely looking for something to sore about. I honestly could care less if you want your character to look pretty. I'm not saying you're bad for making them pretty, I'm not saying your character sucks for making them pretty, but I AM saying that I wouldn't go out of my way to make MY character look pretty within the world. Do whatever the hell you want with yours. (I can't believe we have to come back to the "Do whatever you want with your character" topic AGAIN.)

(06-24-2013, 10:23 PM)Rhostel Wrote: If you've managed to chase him from the community over this petty BS, I hope you feel some remorse over it.

Really? 'Cause I've got several people (yet again) jumping down my throat for stating my opinion and wanting to have an open discussion about character appearances. You don't think that this kind of hostile response from a number of people wouldn't warrant my just saying "fuck it" and leaving to community? 'Cause if I were more sensitive to people like I use to, I really would have by now.

The fact that people can't speak their mind is chasing people off, because said people are so worried about saying the "wrong thing" and having someone flip their shit over nothing. However, that's not going to stop me.

(06-24-2013, 10:23 PM)Rhostel Wrote: Also, the title is misleading. It does sound like an attack, because it's specifically calling out pretty characters. The opening post does so as well, and it's easy enough to assume it's an attack rather than an admission of confusion or a confession of differing tastes. It really should have been called 'Rugged characters in a harsh world'.

Nope. I'm not going to walk on eggshells; I'm just not. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the title and nothing wrong with my opening post, because none of it is an attack and anything is completely imagined. You could say that I should have worded it better, but it's pretty much impossible to come up with a topic that makes everyone happy.

Rhostel · **06-24-2013, 11:00 PM**

@Uther - Maybe. I don't think leaving things be solves anything, though. Just leaves bitterness to fester and erupt later.

@Armi - Yes! That's a point I was going to make. Sure, Rhostel's tough, muscular and scarred, but she's got a great body and classically attractive features. That's the milieu we're working in. I don't stick exactly to her model, but I've no desire to stray too far from it. If there were more customisation options, would I make take advantage of them to make her uglier and more butch? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't, and that's fine. What there is suits what the game is trying to be.

@Beatric - My post was a commentary on what may have been better, not an expectation that it should. I didn't spare Ryanti, you know. And that line about remorse was directed at the one person who agitated this whole matter into a drama fest. That person is not you.

Uther · **06-24-2013, 11:10 PM**

(06-24-2013, 11:00 PM)Rhostel Wrote: @Uther - Maybe. I don't think leaving things be solves anything, though. Just leaves bitterness to fester and erupt later.

Well, it's erupting now.Â

Maybe I'm insensitive but I just didn't interpret any attacks in any of these posts until recently. Every time I stated anything I made sure everyone knew that it was merely my opinion and that people were encouraged to disagree if they so chose. Others in this thread took the same approach.Â

To add on to what Beatric said, which I believe was in reference to the "race change" thread, I find it completely ridiculous and almost unbearable that there are so many people who don't know how to avoid turning a difference of opinion into a fight. We're all adults here (probably?) and we should be able to disagree without it getting personal. There are people on this forum that I disagree with quite frequently, but I still respect their opinions and let them know that there are no hard feelings. It's not hard to be a decent human being while still sharing your opinion.

EDIT: It's my 200th post... yayyyyy!

Kylin · **06-24-2013, 11:11 PM**

Ok, before this thread proceeds, people need to start reading over their posts before spazzing on the "post" button.

Everyone is free to their opinions here, whether they be radical, moderate, or whatever. However, some of you need to really fix your TONE. That's my big gripe right now. Tone sets the mood for everything, and I've noticed that some here are coming off as way too abrasive/defensive/whatever. Stop it. Just stop. Like in real life, people have to modify their behavior in society regardless of how brash they want to be. This is no different.

Shuck · **06-24-2013, 11:35 PM**

(06-24-2013, 10:05 PM)ForestGuardian Wrote: There's a reason so many people have responded defensively to this topic.

There's one. One person is not "so many". The others spoke their piece, and tottered on about their business. We're starting off on shaky ground, but whatever:

Let's mambo.

(06-24-2013, 10:05 PM)ForestGuardian Wrote: Ryanti's post was just longer than the others, and more passionate... So I was pretty disturbed to see the responses to it.

I'm not saying that this is what you said, or what you meant, but this is how what you said could be interpreted, and how it could provoke defensive responses.

So, you're not saying this is what was said. You're pretty much admitting that you're purposefully misinterpreting the material presented.

I mean, I would've stopped here. You can't assume meaning, or attach subtext. You have nothing but the words written to take your message from, and if you can't even do that to reinforce your point, you have no point.

(06-24-2013, 10:05 PM)ForestGuardian Wrote: "...being a rough bitch visually is refreshing to see."
(Interpreted as preferable.)

You're out of context, which is, again, a willful misinterpretation of the material presented.

The rest of the sentence that this was taken from is as follows:

'Beatric Rei Wrote:This topic was brought up in the race selection thread, and I actually got a few people commenting on how my mentality of being a rough bitch visually is refreshing to see.

This thread was created as an offshoot of another discussion, and this in no way implies that anyone is absolutely inferior. Not even kind of.

So, no dice here, unless you're looking to make a fight where there isn't any.

(06-24-2013, 10:05 PM)ForestGuardian Wrote: "I personally feel that it shouldn't be that foreign of a concept."
("More people should be rough.")

"I personally feel-"

I mean, the preamble here is enough to destroy this particular point. Again, the only juncture where this becomes an attack is when you're making an effort to misunderstand what's being said.

Two for two so far.

(06-24-2013, 10:05 PM)ForestGuardian Wrote: "Pretty characters in a rough world just come off as very unrealistic to me."
(Needs no explanation... Saying an entire group of characters are less realistic than yours.)

This is crazy on two counts:

1. It's agreed that idealized characters are less than realistic. By extension, characters that are not so idealized are agreed to be more realistic. That's not some dark secret, that's pretty common knowledge, and the line of thought that any sensible individual would follow. Not so for someone looking to create a problem, though!

2. Again, the author of the post states "to me". It's a statement of a personal opinion, not a denouncement of an individual or group of individuals. Unless...are we seeing a pattern here?

(06-24-2013, 10:05 PM)ForestGuardian Wrote: "...looking fresh faced and bug eyed just doesn't seem to fit the world..."
(Final Fantasy's worlds are some of the worlds where it DOES fit.)

1. You're out of context. Again. Because you've already framed your entire argument on the premise of an intentional misunderstanding. Rest of the sentence:

Beatric Reid Wrote:But, looking fresh faced and bug eyed just doesn't seem to fit the world, unless they're absolutely new to the world of doing any kind of work.

This sentence even gives an out. No semblance of an attack so far.

2. I guess you gave up here? You didn't even attempt to mark this as hostile, you must mentioned that some worlds in the Final Fantasy franchise support hyper-idealized characters. Ok? That's not...really...anything.

Basically, unless you're looking to fly your war-flag, and willing to invent a cause to fly it for, there's no attack in that opening post.

Ask yourself this: Would you bother with this kind of giant leap of logic if the person you thought was being "attacked" (and they aren't, and have no room to believe they are) didn't agree with you? Because I don't think you would.

(06-24-2013, 10:46 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: I think Rhostel is right, it really sounds to me like the poster had a bad experience in other games and doesn't want one here for playing a "pretty" character.

Yeah, but that's not our fault, not our baggage to carry, and not our issue to heal. That's his issue. Which he brought to the forefront.

(06-24-2013, 11:00 PM)Rhostel Wrote: And that line about remorse was directed at the one person who agitated this whole matter into a drama fest. That person is not you.

Don't be passive-aggressive. It helps nothing and nobody anywhere, or at anytime.

Back toward the topic, I'd like to pose a pair of related questions:

What is it that players who play pretty characters do to mark experiences?

Follow up: Why do you prefer this method?

On the flip: Same question to those of us who prefer to mess our dudes up a bunch.

I'll even start.

How I mark experiences: Honestly, it depends on the scenario. A terse argument isn't going to leave much more than a funk for a few days if it's from a source that matters to the character, but a fight where knives are drawn tends to leave a mark. Aside from that, I like to take time and climate into account. Have they been somewhere dry for a long time? What kind of sun does it get? How intense are the storms?

All of these things impact skin and hair, almost as much as biological parents and regional culture. Add to that, they tend to do so to the point where you can kind of tell where someone's been by looking at them. Faces that tell stories are wonderful points for interaction.

Why I prefer this method: Otherwise, the whole of the character's travels seems trivialized to me. It's kind of like how you can put Superman up against whatever, and you know for a fact that he's going to come out on top. If it's a physical threat? He will punch it until it is no longer a threat. If it isn't something punchable? Still doesn't matter, he's incorruptable. The story only has one ending, and that bores the ever-loving shit out of me.

ArmachiA · **06-24-2013, 11:51 PM**

Yeah I didn't mean we all had to be wary of every posters issues, just stating that Rhostel brought up something that I hadn't thought about Smile

On your point near the end:

That's why I decided to have Loki be darker skinned. When I originally rolled her in 1.0, she had fair skin. Being she comes from a pirate background and is always out in the sun, I didn't think this would be very realistic, so on my re-rolling of her look I darkened her skin a little bit. Then I did it a little more because it looked so nice. So Loki now is a naturally olive skinned girl with a deep tan from always being out in the sun, due to her being a pirate back in 1.0 (In 2.0 when she comes out of the void that will no longer be the case, but that's another story)

The one thing that Loki has that I just can't show in game is the fact she has a fake leg. It's just from the knee down (In order to still allow for good motor function) but it's just absolutely impossible to show. Shame but, you know, understandable. They certainly aren't going to code in the ability to do that for my one weird thing.

ForestGuardian · **06-25-2013, 12:00 AM**

Shuck, you (not specifically) were asked to "modify your behavior". Slamming on people, acting like they're mentally incapable, calling their comments "crazy" and labeling people as passive aggressive for sparing your name from a valid point...Â

It is true that you agitated this, and you continue to do so. Though it was smart to act like you were ready to move onto a friendly discussion.Â

I only stepped in because of the harshly worded post you directed at Ryanti, I wanted to make sure they didn't get chased out of the community for (rightly) getting defensive in here. There was an attack, it was defended, you attacked that defense, and attacked it and attacked it, and then someone defended the defense, and you attacked it and attacked it some more... It's pretty clear by now, who in here is being aggressive, crude and careless, and who's trying to set things straight and spare feelings... The best thing that could happen at this point is this thread being locked, and a new thread being made, where people are respectful of differences... Where the thread title is indicating a positive discussion, and where that positive discussion doesn't take any opportunities to knock down other people's play-styles or preferences, because that stuff doesn't belong in ANY community.

Shuck · **06-25-2013, 12:15 AM**

(06-25-2013, 12:00 AM)ForestGuardian Wrote: Shuck, you were asked to "modify your behavior". Slamming on people, acting like they're mentally incapable, calling their comments "crazy" and labeling people as passive aggressive for sparing your name from a valid point...Â

It is true that you agitated this, and you continue to do so. Though it was smart to act like you were ready to move onto a friendly discussion.Â

I only stepped in because of the harshly worded post you directed at Ryanti, I wanted to make sure they didn't get chased out of the community for (rightly) getting defensive in here. There was an attack, it was defended, you attacked that defense, and attacked it and attacked it, and then someone defended the defense, and you attacked it and attacked it some more... It's pretty clear by now, who in here is being aggressive, crude and careless, and who's trying to set things straight and spare feelings... The best thing that could happen at this point is this thread being locked, and a new thread being made, where people are respectful of differences... Where the thread title is indicating a positive discussion, and where that positive discussion doesn't take any opportunities to knock down other people's play-styles or preferences, because that stuff doesn't belong in ANY community.

I'm sorry, you're totally certain that it was me? And...you're really, really going to pursue this (even going so far as to insist that there was an attack. Which, again, no there wasn't. You can chant that there was, but you haven't defended that point) even after your entire argument was just kind of splayed open?

Buddy, if you can't erect a counter-point, don't resort to personal attacks. You don't have to like me. But you don't get to do this.

(Nice edit, though! I'm eagerly awaiting your actual counter-point.)

Rhostel · **06-25-2013, 12:19 AM**

(06-24-2013, 11:35 PM)Shuck Wrote:
(06-24-2013, 11:00 PM)Rhostel Wrote: And that line about remorse was directed at the one person who agitated this whole matter into a drama fest. That person is not you.

Don't be passive-aggressive. It helps nothing and nobody anywhere, or at anytime.

Just following the letter of the rules while smoothing over a misconception that needed to be. It's not really passive-aggressive when it's totally unambiguous what I meant.

Good news, though, no remorse needed! Talked to Ryanti, he's just bewildered and frustrated at how misinterpreted he was.

@Uther - A small, manageable eruption now, while it's still fresh enough to be healed properly and not leave a scar. No one involved is so unreasonable as to be unable to comprehend the miscommunication going on here. Just takes some perspective and a little swallowed pride.

Ellie · **06-25-2013, 12:28 AM**

Unfortunately, any chance of constructive discussion seems to have been lost, and this discussion has gotten out of hand. For this reason, I will be locking this thread, and I hope that everyone here will have a chance to cool down and gather their thoughts before deciding to hold grudges.

[split] Pretty characters in a harsh world.

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes