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Kage · **09-11-2014, 06:46 PM**

Could someone give me a quote where "thieves can't be heroes" was said? Cause people keep saying it and I have seen nothing that says that is why Rogue is Rogue and not Thief.

C'kayah Polaali · **09-11-2014, 06:50 PM**

I'm actually pretty happy with the idea that the Rogue class isn't going to turn into something called "thief", but not for YoshiP's reasons. He's got some strange unwillingness to cop to certain realities of his world, which leads him to not want to have something called a "thief" as canon. From my point of view, though, a thief isn't a class. It's an occupation.

C'kayah, for instance, is ICly a poor conjurer, a reasonable swordsman, and a decent archer. But he is also a thief.

Of course, when Rogue comes out, I'm jumping on it like a junkie on a fix. But don't worry, Madda. C's not going to be that kind of rogue. He's going to be this kind of rogue:

[Image: prince_of_lankhmar.jpg]

Kellach Woods · **09-11-2014, 06:51 PM**

(09-11-2014, 04:06 PM)Oscare Wrote: I'm going to have to agree with Askier. Throughout history AND in folklores, there are several instances of thieves being heroes, hell, it even happened in Final Fantasy VI with Locke who stole for the better good rather than pillage and kill out of hunger.

And as Locke would tell you - HE'S A TREASURE HUNTER and not a thief.

Also, I think they wanted to avoid Thief because it's an actual job featured in the previous games, whereas Rogue isn't. Notice how far they went to differentiate the starting classes from the jobs that have far more traditional names as they're using those for jobs even if the jobs themselves are sometimes using features from other jobs. (I'd associate Warrior/Fighter with Berserker more than what it is!)

Like, the closest you can say would be Archer, and it's always been Ranger. I don't see anyone raising a stink about that.

Also, nobody's using Shaman so why wouldn't you not use Thief if you really wanted?

Aldotsk · **09-11-2014, 06:51 PM**

I think Robin Hood is actually a good example of how a thief can be labeled as a hero.Â
But honestly, I feel that rogues sound better than thieves because it has more wider option and perspective on what kind of occupation you'd have as a rogue.

You can be assassin rogue type, or stealing rogue type (in this case, it'd be thief. literally.) - Rogues can also be vigilantes easily comparing to pugilists, or archers (unless you want to be Green Arrow and like to shout "PLAYER, YOU HAVE FAILED THIS CITY") However, rogue type of characters were always the "hero" for locals and criminals, depending on what kind of path you choose. To be like Robin Hood, or become just a master thief, become Ezio Auditore, or just a scoundrel that likes to bully people.Â

I am sure some RPers don't just want to be called thieves for their created characters, but rather "rebel" type, like rogue. For ninja and thief analogy, just because Goemon historically was a thief and a ninja, doesn't mean all ninjas are thieves. Ninjas were rather assassin type and spies. They would rather fit for Rogue type.

Melkire · **09-11-2014, 07:18 PM**

(09-11-2014, 06:46 PM)Kage Wrote: Could someone give me a quote where "thieves can't be heroes" was said? Cause people keep saying it and I have seen nothing that says that is why Rogue is Rogue and not Thief.

That's the implied gist/connotation/whatever that was extrapolated from a statement that Yoshi made. Re: that statement, somehow no one thought this important enough to write down in their translations, instead summarizing Yoshi's exposition and leaving this bit out. >_>

Skip to approximately 23:00 in the video below.

"So you have the classes in FFXIV, they fit in with the story. Each class has their own guild andÂ their own history. When we're thinking of creating a new class and a class that would have its own guild, you think thieves and that's more like petty thievery; you want something more solid."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjWo07ABYV4#t=1380

People have been taking that, running with it, and I've been seeing/hearing arguments that go, "you can't have a thief in XIV, because thieving is bad!"

EDIT: Yes, I know that, not even a minute later, Yoshi goes on to state that rogues have evolved from thieves into this miniature society with a "thief history".

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Rogues as Opposed to Thieves: Impact on Flavor and Tangential Impact on RP

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