RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Seriphyn · **10-06-2014, 11:12 PM**

Hello all,

So people probably know from my postings that I am a huge stickler for the lore as far as my personal tastes go - if there's no lorebacking for it, I'm not interested in RPing it. Which is an interesting irony since Kale's current position, a 'retainer for Lord Lolorito', may or may not be a little contrived.

A 'sipahi' IRL is an Ottoman knight, which is where I believe the ilvl55 item set 'Sipahi' comes from. Combine that with the Ottoman influence to Ul'dah, I concocted the idea sipahi might just mean 'Ul'dahn knight'. While Captain Jenlyns makes a reference to "mounted knights" being part of Ul'dah's military (and it might just be a translation thing), I took 'knight' in Eorzea to mean any individual in fighting service to a noble. Since Lolorito is a merchant noble, I presumed it could apply in this case.

I'm generally not the type to go to public forums to ask for suggestions about my RP, but I'm always pleasantly surprised by what RPC can come up with! I generally shy away from contrived ostentation, and I can't help but feel every time Kale spouts 'sipahi' IC, I am debasing myself with made-up RP terminology! Recently, I've taken to saying 'cavalryman', since that armour Kale wears does look mighty fine atop a chocobo, and surprised I haven't seen anyone combat RP being on a chocobo. If only the game allowed draw weapon atop a chocobo...speaking of armour, it's technically Immortal Flames, and even then I contrived a reason for Kale having it (Lord Lolorito's courtier in charge of Kale provisioning it from the Flames Huntmaster)

In summary, I'm asking...

1) Is the term 'sipahi' too pretentious? Would saying 'knight' bring the wrong connotations? How about 'cavalryman'?
2) Is Kale's position as an individual, free-roaming fighting asset of Lord Lolorito contrived? Should he be a Brass Blade officer instead? (i.e. a solo Brass Blade officer escorting two wealthy Ul'dahn citizens in Hustings Strip; v similar to the sort of work Kale does?)

Any other suggestions are welcome, too! I'm basically just looking for rationalizations and justifications to make Kale's position a little more grounded and believable.

Aduu Avagnar · **10-06-2014, 11:49 PM**

(10-06-2014, 11:12 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: Hello all,

So people probably know from my postings that I am a huge stickler for the lore as far as my personal tastes go - if there's no lorebacking for it, I'm not interested in RPing it. Which is an interesting irony since Kale's current position, a 'retainer for Lord Lolorito', may or may not be a little contrived.

A 'sipahi' IRL is an Ottoman knight, which is where I believe the ilvl55 item set 'Sipahi' comes from. Combine that with the Ottoman influence to Ul'dah, I concocted the idea sipahi might just mean 'Ul'dahn knight'. While Captain Jenlyns makes a reference to "mounted knights" being part of Ul'dah's military (and it might just be a translation thing), I took 'knight' in Eorzea to mean any individual in fighting service to a noble. Since Lolorito is a merchant noble, I presumed it could apply in this case.

I'm generally not the type to go to public forums to ask for suggestions about my RP, but I'm always pleasantly surprised by what RPC can come up with! I generally shy away from contrived ostentation, and I can't help but feel every time Kale spouts 'sipahi' IC, I am debasing myself with made-up RP terminology! Recently, I've taken to saying 'cavalryman', since that armour Kale wears does look mighty fine atop a chocobo, and surprised I haven't seen anyone combat RP being on a chocobo. If only the game allowed draw weapon atop a chocobo...speaking of armour, it's technically Immortal Flames, and even then I contrived a reason for Kale having it (Lord Lolorito's courtier in charge of Kale provisioning it from the Flames Huntmaster)

In summary, I'm asking...

1) Is the term 'sipahi' too pretentious? Would saying 'knight' bring the wrong connotations? How about 'cavalryman'?
2) Is Kale's position as an individual, free-roaming fighting asset of Lord Lolorito contrived? Should he be a Brass Blade officer instead? (i.e. a solo Brass Blade officer escorting two wealthy Ul'dahn citizens in Hustings Strip; v similar to the sort of work Kale does?)

Any other suggestions are welcome, too! I'm basically just looking for rationalizations and justifications to make Kale's position a little more grounded and believable.

One thing regarding the wearing of the uniform, if the hunt stuff is indeed Flames uniforms IC, then why is Kale wearing it? it would be like a member of the Flames wearing Sultansworn or Brass Blade gear.

Aya · **10-07-2014, 10:28 AM**

Considering the term is used in-game on equipment, I can't see "Sipahi" being verbotten!Â It seems reasonable (if what you say about mentions of mounted Ul'dahn forces are correct) that these are feudal forces from outside the city used in times of war rather than the current tentative peace?Â They would probably be land holders too to afford to be cavalry? While the Blades are more of a city-based militia (doubling as a gendarme).Â

I also don't see why Lolorito wouldn't have as many variety of assets as he could get his hands on.Â Having some of the Sultana's land holding retainers on his payroll seems like a situation he would come to appreciate Smile

Warren Castille · **10-07-2014, 10:45 AM**

Just spitballing here, but it's entirely reasonable for Syndicate folks to have their own staff and security people. The Flames attire can even be explained away as decommissioned military equipment.

Berrod Armstrong · **10-07-2014, 10:55 AM**

What I would suggest is that you avoid giving him a title or label for now, and explain his position in various iterations of 'he works for Lord Lolorito'. That way there's no grounds for you to be screwed over, OR feel uneasy. That's only if it really bothers you though!Â

Using the term Sipahi is fine, in my opinion; not pretentious at all. You wish to roleplay a certain concept and there is a gap within it that needs to be filled. If you've been bold enough to play a 'contrived' position, be bold enough to name it! If more official lore comes along that gives the position a different name, I'm sure everyone will accommodate a simple and minute retcon. The concept is fun, and different from what I've seen so far.Â

A member of the syndicate (a walking potato traffic-cone gil-purse Â no less) is bound to need some muscle to get stuff done for him. Follow what has been revealed to us of Lolorito's ambitions and motivation, and use those to direct what work your character does. Nothing at all wrong with filling that gap; every roleplayer has to do that to a certain degree. Nothing is airtight.

Play it; we will believe it, because goddamn...that smarmy little Lalafell bastard has GOTTA have his grunts on the ground.

Melkire · **10-07-2014, 03:02 PM**

"Sipahi" IRL translates literally as "of the sipa", and Wikipedia is correct in listing its origins as "of the army" but originally "of the horse" ("aspa" is horses plural, Wikipedia; asp is horse singular). Thank you, Persian heritage of mine, for occasionally being useful.

So in its most literal translation, Sipahi means soldier. "Knight" is a stretch. Historically, yes, the term is most often synonymous with Ottoman troops, but the word itself has absolutely no connotations or connections with anything of a knightly nature. Cavalryman is closer, given the etymology.

Within the setting of FFXIV, it's my understanding that sipahi are actually supported in lore as having been a thing at one point or another. The gear exists, and the turban is commonly used throughout the Brass Blades who work for Lolorito.

I'd say you're perfectly fine and free to roleplay as a free-roaming asset of Lolorito's. Sipahi isn't too pretentious a term to use in roleplay, though I'd personally avoid anything knight-related. The historical sipahis were comparable to medieval European knights in status only; the similarities ended there.

Aya · **10-07-2014, 03:18 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:02 PM)Melkire Wrote: The historical sipahis were comparable to medieval European knights in status only; the similarities ended there.

Maybe in Persian use... in Ottoman use it is virtually synonymous with "knight" in the European sense Smile

Â

They were men provided with land holdings in exchange for their service as heavy cavalry in time of war (in addition to providing feudal levies from their lands).Â They even used armor, barding, and equipment similar to Western knights long after that had fallen out of favor in Western Europe.

Sad that it sounds like there is no lore in FF to help piece together what its intended meaning is (if it was even intended to have any meaning beyond providing a particular style of armor).

Kage · **10-07-2014, 03:21 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:18 PM)Aya Wrote: Sad that it sounds like there is no lore in FF to help piece together what its intended meaning is (if it was even intended to have any meaning beyond providing a particular style of armor).

This.

Personally I do not want to attribute much meaning to the word as if it might be a title or moniker as the only thing behind it is that... it's named Sipahi.

But there's so many things like Battlemages and Warlocks and Templars that I essentially think it's a style of arms and not a title per say.

Melkire · **10-07-2014, 03:26 PM**

Perhaps I should have said, "no connotations or connections with anything of a chivalrous nature."

European knights were more than just land-holding cavalry troops, which is precisely what the sipahi were.

Aya · **10-07-2014, 03:27 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:21 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-07-2014, 03:18 PM)Aya Wrote: Sad that it sounds like there is no lore in FF to help piece together what its intended meaning is (if it was even intended to have any meaning beyond providing a particular style of armor).
This.

Personally I do not want to attribute much meaning to the word as if it might be a title or moniker as the only thing behind it is that... it's named Sipahi.

But there's so many things like Battlemages and Warlocks and Templars that I essentially think it's a style of arms and not a title per say.

Proooobably true ^_^

Sounds like a neat title to run with though, its doubtful any lore will ever be released to suggest that its use is incorrect.Â Just a type of warrior from Ul'dah's past, which apparently inspired the design of Brass Blade and Immortal Flames uniforms.

Jana · **10-07-2014, 03:31 PM**

Some things are explained by the game, for example, if there was suddenly a Gatling Gun developed, we already have an alchemist named Gatling in the game to have developed it. But we've yet to see any evidence of a Viking (or Viking-style) civilization in Eorzea to have developed and wielded Viking Swords. If there's actually a Viking in older Final Fantasy games that could come up in XIV, I wouldn't know. But chances are they're just using it as a name in the game. I'd avoid reading too much into the usage of the word "Sipahi" in much the same way.

Aya · **10-07-2014, 03:33 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:31 PM)Jana Wrote: Some things are explained by the game, for example, if there was suddenly a Gatling Gun developed, we already have an alchemist named Gatling in the game to have developed it. But we've yet to see any evidence of a Viking (or Viking-style) civilization in Eorzea to have developed and wielded Viking Swords. If there's actually a Viking in older Final Fantasy games that could come up in XIV, I wouldn't know. But chances are they're just using it as a name in the game. I'd avoid reading too much into the usage of the word "Sipahi" in much the same way.

Viking swords are especially silly since they were just looking for a quick way to replace Gladiator Daggers.... Smile

Seriphyn · **10-07-2014, 08:12 PM**

Aha! I was absolutely right about people giving good responses, lemme work through em.

The armour
The Flame Elite's Cuirass that Kale wears is worn by Hunter-Scholars rather than the Grand Company soldiers, and can be earned via Elite Marks, which are more than just a game mechanic AFAIK as the Hunt is something universe. Instead, it was spun that Lolorito's intermediary (I am averse to saying Kale has direct contact with a major storyline NPC) paid in gil rather than using Elite Marks, or some other currency. So a variation of Warren's proposal.

The bullhead pauldron makes it ostentatious as hell, and the idea is that I'd wager Lolorito would want one of his heavies to be as such. Either way, it's acknowledged IC as "My liege provisioned this from the Immortal Flames Huntmaster". We know that the Brass Blades are jointly controlled by Lolorito's EATC and Prince Adeledji's Mirage Trust, and that military exercises with the Immortal Flames are a thing. If the two factions were completely averse to one another, I wouldn't have Kale wear it.

Term "sipahi"
I did not know that 'sipahi' literally translated to soldier, but either way it works! I'd make it clear that Kale is not landed, though. I will commit to using either "cavalryman" or "sipahi" IC from now on. As long as people don't think it's pretentious, and apparently folks do not Tongue

Usage of knight and its connotations
I think given Melkire's information I will drop using the term 'knight' whenever Kale is asked "WTH is a sipahi?". The immediate imagery is chivalry, and while Kale may or may not have that depending, the focus is more on being a soldier and serving than operating along a specific code (Lawful Neutral over Lawful Good). It was a bit long-winded to explain that "Oh, knight insofar as in service to a noble" every time clarification was asked, and we really don't know if that's what it means in Eorzea outside of Ishgard.Â

Besides, I think Ul'dahns are more likely gonna use the term "paladin" in place of knight, within their lingo, and mean the same thing. Chivalrous fighter in service to a noble.

Ser Khaleed - Syndicate sipahi

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes