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Kage · **10-02-2015, 06:46 PM**

(10-02-2015, 06:14 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-02-2015, 05:26 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-02-2015, 04:37 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: I've also noticed that a surprising number of tanks don't make use of target marking... I'm pretty good at keeping on the correct target anyway, but I had some groups where even at the level we were at, the other DPS kept grabbing the wrong mob.
See, part of the problem is that marking is usually done for two reasons. Tank is bad at aggro or there is a specific order that things should be killed (focus down this target and make it dead first). Marking becomes a bit of a tank crutch.

Mark because it needs to zerg down because the target does a nasty attack at X time or X HP% (BEES)

I think you're looking at it the wrong way... in a standard party if there's two DPS each attacking a different target, it makes the tank's job harder if the tank has to alternate target constantly to keep threat. The marks have nothing to do with the skill of the tank, and everything to do with the skill and attentiveness of the DPS.

Ideally, DPS will focus target the tank and will target-of-target and so everything will be fine... but... unfortunately there are some players who are new (even if high in level) or who just flat out don't care about being a team player (they figure "it's the tank's job to keep aggro, not my fault if he can't"). So the marking is basically a big neon sign that says "just in case you're new or a derp, here's the one I want you to have selected when you mash your buttons kthx".

I'll respectfully disagree with you here. It's my opinion that it's up to the tank to decide when to mark and that's usually because of the two cases I mentioned above. So if the tank is having a rough time, go for it but the tank should not be even with dps and healer all on different enemies. Rotating your hits is pretty much standard aggro tank procedure, not because of DPS hitting different targets but because everything will generate aggro almost. Spreading DoTs is good and the tank, healer, and dps will do so and should do so. And when you do that, target target's target won't be doing squat.

The only times the mob is "wrong" are if DPS go gungho before the tank could adequately pull (unloading when the tank has only provoked [for long distance pulling], shield lobbed, tomahawked, and DRK puller I forgot the name of) or if they didn't focus something that needed it.

I stopped marking essentially before I hit 50 on my first tank (PLD). Honestly, for me, it's more work to mark than it is to keep hate and do damage.

Kellach Woods · **10-05-2015, 06:10 AM**

I don't mark because the controls for that aren't intuitive and I trust my DPS to actually pay attention to what they're doing.

I also don't tank relevant content.

Nebbs · **10-05-2015, 06:29 AM**

I mark as tank when it seems needed. My first pull will generally let me know what I am dealing with.

For me the mark just says where I am putting most of my hate. That helps DPS unload more damage on that mob

I do watch the health of mobs also as this let's you know what might get pulled off you. Also I rotate my hits round the mobs and check the hate levels, healers can creep up the hate list on all mobs.

Other than that I will cover mistakes of DPS, but keep pulling and I will let them tank it.

SicketySix · **10-05-2015, 08:57 AM**

For me it's situational. I'll throw up marked targets when the dps seems to be running all over the place like little toddlers on crack

(about 90% of the time)

Other than that, I don't really bother with it.

What I usually have a bigger problem with is where my healer gets to busy dpsing they forget to heal the tank. You had 1 job.....

Gegenji · **10-05-2015, 09:08 AM**

It should be noted that just marking the mobs doesn't mean the DPS will immediately follow them. And, really, if there's multiple mobs and you have someone like a SMN or BLM (Especially BLM since you get Fire/Ice II fairly early) - they're going to be AoEing anyway so the kill order doesn't really mean much to help "mitigate" aggro problems. The tank is still going to have to be using Flash/Overpower/Unleash to keep enmity.

... Which is why most of my group tanking involves Flash/Unleash + MP regen combo on PLD/DRK and liberal use of Overpower (and Steel Cyclone once I have it) on WAR.

Vyce · **10-05-2015, 10:01 AM**

(10-02-2015, 06:46 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-02-2015, 06:14 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(10-02-2015, 05:26 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-02-2015, 04:37 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote: I've also noticed that a surprising number of tanks don't make use of target marking... I'm pretty good at keeping on the correct target anyway, but I had some groups where even at the level we were at, the other DPS kept grabbing the wrong mob.
See, part of the problem is that marking is usually done for two reasons. Tank is bad at aggro or there is a specific order that things should be killed (focus down this target and make it dead first). Marking becomes a bit of a tank crutch.

Mark because it needs to zerg down because the target does a nasty attack at X time or X HP% (BEES)

I think you're looking at it the wrong way... in a standard party if there's two DPS each attacking a different target, it makes the tank's job harder if the tank has to alternate target constantly to keep threat. The marks have nothing to do with the skill of the tank, and everything to do with the skill and attentiveness of the DPS.

Ideally, DPS will focus target the tank and will target-of-target and so everything will be fine... but... unfortunately there are some players who are new (even if high in level) or who just flat out don't care about being a team player (they figure "it's the tank's job to keep aggro, not my fault if he can't"). So the marking is basically a big neon sign that says "just in case you're new or a derp, here's the one I want you to have selected when you mash your buttons kthx".
I'll respectfully disagree with you here. It's my opinion that it's up to the tank to decide when to mark and that's usually because of the two cases I mentioned above. So if the tank is having a rough time, go for it but the tank should not be even with dps and healer all on different enemies. Rotating your hits is pretty much standard aggro tank procedure, not because of DPS hitting different targets but because everything will generate aggro almost. Spreading DoTs is good and the tank, healer, and dps will do so and should do so. And when you do that, target target's target won't be doing squat.

The only times the mob is "wrong" are if DPS go gungho before the tank could adequately pull (unloading when the tank has only provoked [for long distance pulling], shield lobbed, tomahawked, and DRK puller I forgot the name of) or if they didn't focus something that needed it.

I stopped marking essentially before I hit 50 on my first tank (PLD). Honestly, for me, it's more work to mark than it is to keep hate and do damage.

Well, actually the right way to cull a pull in a dungeon crawl is to all by fighting the same creature. If everyone is hitting a different mob, the kill is actually slower. If the deeps are all hitting different mobs and it is one particular mob doing the most hazardous damage, you are stuck dealing with that mob longer than you should. You also can't completely expect a first-timer to know which one is going to be the most trouble every time.

*snob-mode engage*

Except for the healer. A healer should be able to read the battle, interpret enemy behavior, and recognize opportunities to speed up the fight.
The exception is when you are in a Full or Raid Party. One healer (preferably a WM*) dedicates health maintenance. The other cleric should focus on support, which I am more than happy to do as battle-cleric takes out the tedium of dungeon crawls. I prefer to stick to AoE heals, Selene skills, DoTs, tank buffs, and only target heal when things are getting tight or the other healer is in danger.

I'm also usually butthurt when us Healers are plenty and waiting on tanks 5everrrrr.

*edited.

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