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Aldotsk · **09-22-2014, 06:58 PM**

(09-22-2014, 06:38 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(09-22-2014, 03:39 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: Everything will eventually come up as time passes by, the housing prices will go down and there will be plenty of plots available in the future.

What is your definition of plenty? Because it seems to me to be very odd. Consider that Balmung has 30,000 (roughly) players. Then consider how many houses we have, even after the wards are doubled.

It can be plenty or not plenty. There could be 3 wards or 8 or 16 for 2.4, or more wards in the future. I find Personal Housing (Even FC housing) to be the longest term project from developers for players in this case. It's not limited edition where wards will eventually stop and people can't really buy any single plot what-so-ever.Â

We are only at 2.4 version here, and they are slowly adding and implementing it. If they haven't added new wards for like 6-12 months, then that's an issue. But it isn't. They are adding them in slowly, and it has been showing signs that it's happening.

They are also probably adding more wards anyways for Ishgard housing area and also for Gold Saucer and airship etc.Â

I mean, if airships are going to be limited - it'll come down to that point that players will complain about that instead. From my experience of every games by fans, are that fans will never be satisfied about what is given to them.Â

It's like if someone requested the chef to cook something special, and the chef cooked something for that person, it is likely that 50% of that chance - the customer will say "That is not what I asked for and you didn't deliver it".

Aldotsk · **09-22-2014, 07:03 PM**

(09-22-2014, 06:56 PM)J Wrote: Not everybody in this thread is new to MMO's. Many of us have invested in other MMO's over the years and know exactly what sort of tricks and issues that developers can resort to and cause. I also feel the need to point out that just because somebody feels strongly about the housing situation it is not an excuse to tell them to shut up or leave the game. If the game didn't have redeeming qualities then most of us wouldn't be here in the first place, though at the same time there is nothing preventing people from raising their concerns in a constructive manner.Â

Will some people simply come into this thread with the purpose of venting? That's likely too - but that, again, is no reason for the usual suspects to resort to personal attacks just because the game they fawn over isn't praised as being the best thing since sliced bread at every possible opportunity.

I really really hope you guys didn't think I was telling you all to "shut up" or "leave the game", because that is not my actual focus in point there. If you feel that I was saying it that way, then I don't know what to say because that's just twisting my words. All I said was "be patient, and wait". And to some people, it's like being heard as "no one cares if you complain. Stop whining and deal with it."Â

No one should start any personal attacks. Which is why I made that post before saying that I was fed up with it just because -someone- disagrees with you, doesn't mean one should start attacking and throwing insults.

LiadansWhisper · **09-22-2014, 07:05 PM**

(09-22-2014, 06:26 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: *sighs* I really really don't like it when someone is actually making this into personal and start insulting others to a point that this thread will be closed ... AGAIN. (at least 6 threads regarding housing has been closed due to your constant attacks and complaints)

Citation needed. Â Just because I'm saying things that you don't like doesn't mean that I'm personally attacking anyone else. Â Disagreeing with you - or anyone else - is not a personal attack, no matter how much you might wish otherwise. Â And while I have noted several personal attacks on me, I figure people are free to say stupid things all day long if they want. Â Doesn't mean I have the right to tell them to shut up. Â So to be clear: I've told no one to shut up. Â It would be nice if you'd stop telling me - and others who agree with me - to shut up because you don't like what we're saying.

Quote:I don't know what your problem is. Really. I am so fed up with you trying to insult me from the first housing discussions when I clearly said it is fair for FC to gain their house over personal house because all MMO games require guilds to be priority over single player because that is how you make a community and enjoy games with friends.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about here. Â I haven't tried to personally insult or attack you, and I'm not sure why my apparent evil insistence on not agreeing with you translates into me personally attacking you. Â I haven't called you any names, I haven't accused you have anything. Â I've just said I don't think you'll feel the same way when it's actually something you care about.

Quote:The game has not lied to me. The interface, combat system, and beginner friendly system has been ALL implemented to 2.0 as Yoshida promised. New class has been promised. It's not Musketeer, but Ninja is cool too. New dungeons always come up every new patch when some new patches in other MMORPG don't give you new dungeons until the NEW expansion. There's not even new story really or events that happen every month or seasonally. The housing appeared with ridiculous prices and personal rooms in the FC house appeared. It wasn't a lie, they all came out as promised. This patch released personal housing as promised. Just not enough for people to buy the plots.

I never said the game lied to you. Â I did, however, say that Yoshida lied when he made the statements he made last December and then never clarified them.

Quote:There will be lies, but I've not seen Yoshi-P and FF14 devs actually lie as much as other gaming dev team did. They have done their best to this point to keep their fans be satisfied. All I said was "wait and hope that it'll change", and all I've also said was "he isn't completely wrong and he's trying his best". But instead, I get an insult and uncivilized talk toward me. Really?

I'm not sure where you're getting insulted or attacked. Â If disagreeing with you and saying that, well, actually, I do consider having my trust broken an issue is insulting to you..I mean, man, I can't be responsible for you deciding that anything I say is an insult to you. Â You made that decision yourself.

Quote:You are a veteran player of FF14 and RPC, and you should be at least have the ideal of being friendly and tell members to calm down and be patient - but instead you make weird assumptions that the prices were going to be down, and you are slamming down on people who are trying to tell others to just be patient?

Um...I still have no idea what you are talking about. Â I feel like you're either confusing me with someone else, or you have just decided that I'm saying things that I'm not. Â Let me be clear for the nth time: No one cares about the prices. Â Seriously, no one cares. Â It was never about the prices. Â Not saying I don't think the prices are ridiculous - I do think they are. Â But the prices are pointless and completely secondary to the conversation when it's legitimately impossible to buy a house at all within 20 minutes of the patch going live. Â This is completely silly. Â I don't understand why this is even up for debate?

Quote:"people like you" is very far stretched, and the game isn't going bad. These are the main reasons I wanted to play FF14 before this housing idea came up:

I liked FF14 concepts and lores and the graphics. I played 1.0 but the reason I quit was I really hated losing XP and LVL like FF11 and it felt too similar to me and the limit on amount of hours I can play to gain lvl seemed silly.

I like the combat system, dungeons, FATE, and the raids that they have given to me. It's challenging, and yet fun. (I havent done dungeons in a while because of RP, but yes - that is the MAIN reason I do like this game.)

Class systems are very open than any other games. I like it. End of story.

Roleplaying with people were the main reason I like the game. Like whole events kept me enjoying all the time.Â

Housing was my least concern because I knew myself that I had to earn money for myself since no one in my FC besides my friends in Gilgamesh wanted to save. We all ripped people off by selling philo items for 50-60k everyday doing endless dungeons to farm for the stones and then we gathered enough, and when they quit they gave me all of their Gils and I went to Balmung (They only quit because they wanted to play other games. I dont know when they will return). but as for myself, I did the same thing in Balmung selling it for ridiculously expensive and still earned a lot and then joined in Titan HM teams to earn gils that way. Then I started selling more items and did hunts as Ellaria.Â

Aside from the point, I avoided a lot of RP during those times and did endless farmings and I got here now. That's not the reason I came here to talk in the thread. I came to this thread that it's not the end for them to close the book and conclude that they won't listen or lie to us. Who knows if they lie or not? They haven't really shown 2.4 yet, so why judge now?

Thank you for the background information, but I don't have a clue what it has to do with this thread? Â I'm sorry that you are so upset by the very idea that maybe some people won't put up with being lied to by people they are paying. Â Everyone has their breaking point, after all. Â What's important to one person won't be important at all to someone else. Â What's important to me isn't going to be important to you, and what's important to you may not matter a hill of beans to me. Â And that's okay. Â My point, however, was that you can watch a pattern of behavior and judge - by looking at past actions - how a particular person or group of persons will behave in the future. Â When someone lies to you, that is something you add into that value judgement.

Quote:But seriously, please do not include me as "people like you", because I surely don't want this game to go bad but I don't want to expect that housing is the only reason I play this game because I feel like I paid 79.99 and ($15.00) per month for nothing. I find myself something else to do everyday at FF14, and that is making new friends and I am very satisfied where I am.

You know, I really have no idea why you seem to think that myself, and others who are upset with how SE handled this entire situation, want the "game to go bad." Â Generally speaking, people only get upset when they care. Â They care when they want a game to be good. Â That's generally why people speak out when they see something going the wrong way.Â

Quote:All these complaints are nothing but negative energy and it's dragging everyone down. So I suggest that at least have yourself one more chance to have a faith than keep saying "He's gonna lie" "It's never gonna happen".

I'm going to gently suggest that if you don't want to read complaints about something, going to a thread where people are putting those complaints together is probably not the wisest course of action. Â No one here is making you read this thread, but it would be nice if you could have the kindness to allow people who are upset to talk about being upset. Â No one is trying to hurt you. Â You don't have to come in here and defend SE. Â But it's a bit misguided for you to tell upset people to stop talking about their upset in a thread basically dedicated to talking about the situation. Â I'm not quite following the logic myself.

Aldotsk · **09-22-2014, 07:33 PM**

(09-22-2014, 07:05 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Â And while I have noted several personal attacks on me, I figure people are free to say stupid things all day long if they want. Â Doesn't mean I have the right to tell them to shut up. Â So to be clear: I've told no one to shut up. Â It would be nice if you'd stop telling me - and others who agree with me - to shut up because you don't like what we're saying.

Thanks for twisting my words, because no where did I actually write or imply people to "shut up". Just because I said "wait for the possible change" means DOESN'T LITERALLY MEAN I AM TELLING YOU TO SHUT UP. It mean not EVERYTHING is hopeless. The houses back in small plot FC wards were dropped down to 1.5 million gil and you could have purchased it and use it as a personal house for yourself if that's the case. Thats what I did temporarily since it was so cheap.

Quote:I'm going to gently suggest that if you don't want to read complaints about something, going to a thread where people are putting those complaints together is probably not the wisest course of action. Â No one here is making you read this thread, but it would be nice if you could have the kindness to allow people who are upset to talk about being upset. Â No one is trying to hurt you. Â You don't have to come in here and defend SE. Â But it's a bit misguided for you to tell upset people to stop talking about their upset in a thread basically dedicated to talking about the situation. Â I'm not quite following the logic myself.

I am pretty sure the thread is: Personal Housing Thread 2.0, not "personal housing complaints thread". Which means it is right to talk to people to "please be patient" or even "it's not completely hopeless".

It's been only a week since 2.38 and this whole argument and getting worked up between RPC players is not going to be nice. And no, I have my own reason to believe that the patch was fair to some aspects and I just consider it as a "tip of the iceberg" or even "beta testing" to see how fast the personal houses would be taken. Now they -know-, so they are probably adding more wards.Â

They were going by the previous charts of how fast the plots were taken from Ward 1-7 from FC so they probably WEREN'T expecting that players really had that much money in 20 minutes. It's only been a week. If 2.4 came out and they only had 2 wards up, then I would be annoyed too. But even if Yoshida lied, I wouldn't really be concerned to quit the game because there are other things to do. THAT IS WHAT I SAID. All I said was just be patient. I wrote in English (despite that English is 2nd language to me), I clearly wrote it in a decent moderate manner to encourage players to look at the positive way than be disappointed. You completely make it sound like I am telling you to shut up, NO. I did not. I never said it.

Cato · **09-22-2014, 08:07 PM**

I'll never understand the allergy many role-players have in regards to criticism. It's a natural part of life and whilst we can pretend that the world is all sunshine and rainbows the reality is far from it. At the same time it's not even that people are being needlessly negative - it's literally one particular issue that is being discussed and yet...a select few posters seem intent on throwing up their arms and trying to stifle any and all debate regarding the subject.

If you don't feel that it's an issue, that's fine - but stop demanding that everybody else should remain silent. I don't particularly care for some of the threads on this site but I respectfully avoid posting in them. If I do post on them then I make certain that I'm not simply doing so in a way that implies that other people should shut up.

Naunet · **09-22-2014, 08:08 PM**

(09-22-2014, 06:58 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: It can be plenty or not plenty. There could be 3 wards or 8 or 16 for 2.4, or more wards in the future.

Did you actually look at the numbers? 3, 8, 16 - none of those come anywhere closeÂ to being plenty. 16 new wards only services an additional 0.1% of Balmung's population at it's most illogically conservative estimate (dividing the 80k number on xivsoul by 6). It is perfectly reasonable for people to look at this, look at Yoshi's response of "Meh, but we will double the existing wards in 2.4 and consider adding more later", and view this whole thing as horribly insufficient. They would have to add many multiple hundreds of wards at a time in order to provide opportunity for housing to anything close to a medium chunk of the population, and that's really shown no evidence of happening. Do you think it's reasonable for people to have to wait 3 months, 6 months, a year, more to have access to a feature that, in most other MMOs, is readily accessible and extremelyÂ popular?

Cato · **09-22-2014, 08:18 PM**

It's also worth noting that Wildstar tried to market a large portion of appealing content as 'hardcore' and 'exclusive' and it backfired massively to the extent that the developers have been forced to reconsider the core design of the game itself.

The bulk of modern MMO players aren't interested in artificial barriers. They want to log on, do the stuff they want to do and then log off. They've already waited a long time for player housing to be fully implemented. Extending that wait isn't going to go down well for reasons that really should be obvious at this point.

I'm not trying to mean here. I really enjoy FFXIV and I want it to succeed. That doesn't mean I have to keep my mouth shut and refuse to speak out when there's a bump in the road.

Naunet · **09-22-2014, 08:29 PM**

(09-22-2014, 08:18 PM)J Wrote: It's also worth noting that Wildstar tried to market a large portion of appealing content as 'hardcore' and 'exclusive' and it backfired massively to the extent that the developers have been forced to reconsider the core design of the game itself.

Eeeh just as a note, as I currently play WildStar - they haven't really changed the core design. They've just been carefully pruning out the bullshit from the hardcore tree - e.g. adjusting the medal requirement for dungeon/adventure completions for attunement because the timer requirement on Silver is far more applicable to status achievements (which it now has) than is was to raiding.

Regardless, however, things like housing are generally expected by the general MMO populace to not be some 1% or less exclusive feature. That's kinda why Carbine gives everyone their own plot when they hit 14.

ArmachiA · **09-22-2014, 08:33 PM**

A lie by ommision is still a lie. If they didn't update their stance in the 9 months that they said it, it's a lie. I find it weird people are going "Well it was 9 months ago when they said that." and not, "Why didn't they update their position in the 9 months they had?"

It's weirdly shady. Doesn't sit right with me.

And YES, saying "Wait and see" is a very polite form of saying "shut up" btw.

FreelanceWizard · **09-22-2014, 08:37 PM**

<magicAdminHat>

All, please stay on topic. If you have an issue with someone and their tone, please take it to PMs. This thread's been pretty nice and reasonable up until now.

</magicAdminHat>

Warren Castille · **09-22-2014, 09:05 PM**

Live Letter Wrote:Q: When will individual housing be implemented?
A: It will be around half a year after patch 2.1's release. Currently, we are split between implementing a personal room within a free company house or personal housing. Since the decision will have a huge impact on how many additional servers we'll need to prepare, we have to carefully consider the balance of the housing system. We believe it will take roughly six months to have everything planned out and prepared.

What's to clarify? This is exactly what we got, only instead of "or" it became "and." Or is everyone sour about the later comment on it not just being FC housing made personal?

Aldotsk · **09-22-2014, 09:08 PM**

(09-22-2014, 08:33 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: A lie by ommision is still a lie. If they didn't update their stance in the 9 months that they said it, it's a lie. I find it weird people are going "Well it was 9 months ago when they said that." and Â not, "Why didn't they update their position in the 9 months they had?"

It's weirdly shady. Doesn't sit right with me.

And YES, saying "Wait and see" is a very polite form of saying "shut up" btw.

If I talked about Phantasy Star Online 2 about their lies comparing to this, it is really a complete different level about what is really a lie and what is really vague.Â

To answer your question where I've bolded and underlined, they finally reveal their greatest excuse of calling off the personal housing-only based instance, and that is...

Yoshida basically had this statement during TGS:

Quote:People have been asking if we put the FC housing and private housing in the same place. To explain, we didnâ€™t want FC housing to be completely replaced with private housing. We thought if we introduced totally separate (uninstanced) private housing, we would end up with people totally abandoning the FC houses and never interacting with one another.

I will say, after what he said right up here - I respect him a lot. Honestly, this was my biggest fear for everything where Â people will just never Â bother to join FC at all or contribute of Â helping each other out to build a FC house or airship (in the future).

I honestly think it was a sudden change to their agenda, where Yoshida WAS indeed planning for a personal housing only area, and he probably thought "Oh wait, then no one else will ever visit FC houses anymore."

But evidently, it's not a complete loss where he said "We decided to drop the personal housing thing". It was really more of "We installed it together instead." - and the biggest disappointment to the community was "not enough wards and plots for players to buy it" - Which is TRUE because Â you know, Balmung is just one of those ridiculously populated server that will gain more players and have lesser plots. I won't deny that.Â

Was it a good decision for him to do this? 50/50 for me. Because while I agree with his statements, I do feel unfortunate for other players who couldn't get the personal plot (including myself to buy a small one) Â it just happens that I have to look at their views Â too.

Warren Castille · **09-22-2014, 09:13 PM**

FCs are already kind of a joke anyway. Housing was all that made them unique (that and the extra LS channel in /fc).

Before anybody brings up FC buffs, I'd like to request someone link me to a thread where players asked/begged/whined for those to be available to individuals. They don't count.

ArmachiA · **09-22-2014, 10:43 PM**

(09-22-2014, 09:08 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: I will say, after what he said right up here - I respect him a lot. Honestly, this was my biggest fear for everything where Â people will just never Â bother to join FC at all or contribute of Â helping each other out to build a FC house or airship (in the future).

I honestly think it was a sudden change to their agenda, where Yoshida WAS indeed planning for a personal housing only area, and he probably thought "Oh wait, then no one else will ever visit FC houses anymore."

But evidently, it's not a complete loss where he said "We decided to drop the personal housing thing". It was really more of "We installed it together instead." - and the biggest disappointment to the community was "not enough wards and plots for players to buy it" - Which is TRUE because Â you know, Balmung is just one of those ridiculously populated server that will gain more players and have lesser plots. I won't deny that.Â

Was it a good decision for him to do this? 50/50 for me. Because while I agree with his statements, I do feel unfortunate for other players who couldn't get the personal plot (including myself to buy a small one) Â it just happens that I have to look at their views Â too.

Then he should have said so MONTHS AGO. Not the night of the patch, not after the patch. He could have said it during 2.35 and this could have been solved. They never updated their stance, even the thing that Warren linked wasn't clear "We may be doing this one thing, or we may be doing something else. We dunno" and then when personal rooms came out they still didn't really say much on personal housing.

It's not gonna ever sit right with me that they refused to keep people apprised of what was going on.

Verranicus · **09-23-2014, 12:35 AM**

Won't lie, the night of the patch I stayed up late with the girlfriend so we could grab what we assumed would be reasonably priced houses next door to one another. When the information rolled out she was disappointed and I was downright angry.

I'm over it now, though, because at least now I can spend the couple million I'd been saving up knowinf full well I'll never be able to afford one of these 'personal' houses unless changes are made. =P

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