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Kage · **10-07-2014, 03:08 PM**

(10-07-2014, 02:58 PM)Val Wrote: Val is definitely more of a finesse fighter, and he dual wields daggers and waits for his enemy to make a mistake before he commits to a strike. If he fails, then he's likely going to get beat up in a bad way! It's happened more than once. If they attack him, the /best/ he can do is try and avoid the attack entirely or get sliced up! It's definitely risk/reward, or at least that's how I play it!

I don't know if it's realistic but I read this young adult novel series where they were essentially like "Ranger"s of LotR and using daggers and knives for the most part meant they had a specially designed knife that, when crossed so it was used in conjuction with another dagger or knife, it would be able to catch something like a broadsword.

Of course it meant both your hands were caught in catching it but you know... if that was a last resort.

FreelanceWizard · **10-07-2014, 03:40 PM**

I guess I'm the outlier here in that I see the world of the player characters as more of a mid-power "superheroic" setting, similar to a low Essence Exalted game or the more down to earth issues of Ultimates. Note that I say "the world of the player characters;" the PCs are a tiny subset of Eorzeans. Most Eorzeans are just average people living average fantasy lives in a setting where magic is relatively commonplace (how else do you explain those ceiling fans, huh? Smile

). Those with combat skills are a subset of that, adventurers are a subset of that, competent adventurers are a subset of that, and you can go further if you want to subdivide based on access to Jobs, possession of the Echo, and so on. Yes, the vast majority of people are "grunts," as are the vast majority of adventurers; however, the player characters are the exceptional members of society -- the Company of Heroes sorts who can face down Primals, explore the depths of Allagan ruins, and go around generally being Big Damn Heroes.

However, just because the PCs are Heroic doesn't mean that they don't face significant challenges. It takes 8 highly skilled adventurers to take on a single high-ranking Garlean commander and 24 to challenge the beings within the Crystal Tower. There's always someone or something more powerful. Characters can be powerful without being unimaginably Advent Children or Super Saiyan powerful. They can (and should!) have weaknesses, mental issues, and an underlying construct to explain why they can do what they do.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a character that's less powerful, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being powerful in the XIV setting. In fact, there's a lot of fun that can be had in exploring the implications of that power. How do you handle mundane issues like paying your rent or going out to dinner (or, Twelve forbid, trying to figure out how to split a check)? How do you best apply -- or don't apply -- that power? What's a real threat to you when you have magical healing, and shouldn't fates worse than death terrify you more?

Val · **10-07-2014, 03:52 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:08 PM)Kage Wrote:
(10-07-2014, 02:58 PM)Val Wrote: Val is definitely more of a finesse fighter, and he dual wields daggers and waits for his enemy to make a mistake before he commits to a strike. If he fails, then he's likely going to get beat up in a bad way! It's happened more than once. If they attack him, the /best/ he can do is try and avoid the attack entirely or get sliced up! It's definitely risk/reward, or at least that's how I play it!
I don't know if it's realistic but I read this young adult novel series where they were essentially like "Ranger"s of LotR and using daggers and knives for the most part meant they had a specially designed knife that, when crossed so it was used in conjuction with another dagger or knife, it would be able to catch something like a broadsword.

Of course it meant both your hands were caught in catching it but you know... if that was a last resort.

Yeah, you could use both hands to cross both daggers and briefly catch something, but Val uses it more as a way to give him a bit of extra time to get the hell out of the way--plus, as you said, both hands are then caught with that and it opens up literally every area of the person's body to a counter attack.

C'kayah Polaali · **10-07-2014, 03:54 PM**

(10-07-2014, 02:58 PM)Val Wrote: I'm not against dual wielding, per se, but people need to understand that it's NOT a very defensive fighting style...

Historically, dual-weilding is an extremely defensive fighting style. Sword-and-dagger, sword-and-cape, sword-and-shield (yes, a shield is a weapon). All focus on using the second weapon to bolster defense.

Here's a good video illustrating what I mean. The Martinez Academy (from which this is taken) is one of the few remaining living (meaning there's an unbroken line of instructors) western martial arts schools, so they know their stuff.

Val · **10-07-2014, 04:04 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:54 PM)C Wrote:
(10-07-2014, 02:58 PM)Val Wrote: I'm not against dual wielding, per se, but people need to understand that it's NOT a very defensive fighting style...

Historically, dual-weilding is an extremely defensive fighting style. Sword-and-dagger, sword-and-cape, sword-and-shield (yes, a shield is a weapon). All focus on using the second weapon to bolster defense.

You're right--I think I misused my wording. What I meant to say is that it isn't a style in which one should just use an all-out, pressed attack like I've seen some do. It /is/ defensive in that you can use the offhand to help parry blows and whatnot, but it does require a great deal of finesse to maintain (as you can see in the video you posted). The way I play Val is very close to what's represented in the video, as I've said before: he waits for an opening and strikes when he's managed to parry a blow or force the individual to make a mistake.

Apologies--and thank you for the correction! =)

Oscare · **10-07-2014, 04:28 PM**

An unnecessarily long magical girl transformation sequence filled with friendship and rainbows while everyone else is shot and destroyed is in order, methinks.

Example;
[youtube]sinjEsTa6do[/youtube]

Aya · **10-07-2014, 05:05 PM**

I definitely fall into the Magic Girl category! \o/

Zyrusticae · **10-07-2014, 05:10 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:40 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: I guess I'm the outlier here in that I see the world of the player characters as more of a mid-power "superheroic" setting, similar to a low Essence Exalted game or the more down to earth issues of Ultimates. Note that I say "the world of the player characters;" the PCs are a tiny subset of Eorzeans. Most Eorzeans are just average people living average fantasy lives in a setting where magic is relatively commonplace (how else do you explain those ceiling fans, huh? ). Those with combat skills are a subset of that, adventurers are a subset of that, competent adventurers are a subset of that, and you can go further if you want to subdivide based on access to Jobs, possession of the Echo, and so on. Yes, the vast majority of people are "grunts," as are the vast majority of adventurers; however, the player characters are the exceptional members of society -- the Company of Heroes sorts who can face down Primals, explore the depths of Allagan ruins, and go around generally being Big Damn Heroes.

However, just because the PCs are Heroic doesn't mean that they don't face significant challenges. It takes 8 highly skilled adventurers to take on a single high-ranking Garlean commander and 24 to challenge the beings within the Crystal Tower. There's always someone or something more powerful. Characters can be powerful without being unimaginably Advent Children or Super Saiyan powerful. They can (and should!) have weaknesses, mental issues, and an underlying construct to explain why they can do what they do.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a character that's less powerful, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being powerful in the XIV setting. In fact, there's a lot of fun that can be had in exploring the implications of that power. How do you handle mundane issues like paying your rent or going out to dinner (or, Twelve forbid, trying to figure out how to split a check)? How do you best apply -- or don't apply -- that power? What's a real threat to you when you have magical healing, and shouldn't fates worse than death terrify you more?

I'm with you 100%. ESPECIALLY on the point of player characters being the extraordinary .1% of the population.

The only problem with that is the fact that NPCs have no agency of their own and thus end up falling to the wayside, to the point where we run into a lot more player characters than we do NPCs, which skews our perspective of events. Regardless, I would say that it is entirely reasonable for every PC to be assumed to be the competent 1/3 of the adventurer class that is itself a minority of the population. We're the special ones. That's kind of the point.

There's plenty of interesting things you can do even with really overpowered characters. That power alone cannot solve every problem, and indeed, as mentioned, there are plenty of things out there that are still more powerful. That's just the nature of Eorzea as a setting.

I think the End of an Era video pretty well encapsulates what all of this is about. The party of adventurers in the cinematic are representations of us, with all that entails. In it, you see a man throw another man several man-lengths away with a single axe swing. That's Eorzea for you. That's the power of Aether. You can certainly play someone more normal and/or less powerful, but I don't really see the point unless that's a major conceit for the character (as in, the character is centered around their helplessness and potential for growth). It seems pretty clear to me that the lore supports the much more super-heroic style rather than the more grounded LOTR style.

Kage · **10-07-2014, 05:25 PM**

(10-07-2014, 05:05 PM)Aya Wrote: I definitely fall into the Magic Girl category! \o/

Is Aya Nanoha?

Listen...
Starlight...
to me!
BREAKER
[youtube]DEQc0SiBGMc[/youtube]

Marisa · **10-07-2014, 05:33 PM**

Oh gosh, I much prefer roleplaying with 'normals' than I do with superheroes. Pretty much all of my rp characters are always either rank-and-file soldiers, or a train-wreck of a person (Barrett Stormsong's life consists of drinking, gambling, fencing, and fiddling, and he's mediocre at all four).Â

I'll hold no ill-will against you if you roleplay a superhero, but I'm more interested in the lives and stories of those faceless soldiers who barely get any screen-time.

Berrod Armstrong · **10-07-2014, 05:46 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:40 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: I guess I'm the outlier here in that I see the world of the player characters as more of a mid-power "superheroic" setting, similar to a low Essence Exalted game or the more down to earth issues of Ultimates. Note that I say "the world of the player characters;" the PCs are a tiny subset of Eorzeans. Most Eorzeans are just average people living average fantasy lives in a setting where magic is relatively commonplace (how else do you explain those ceiling fans, huh? ). Those with combat skills are a subset of that, adventurers are a subset of that, competent adventurers are a subset of that, and you can go further if you want to subdivide based on access to Jobs, possession of the Echo, and so on. Yes, the vast majority of people are "grunts," as are the vast majority of adventurers; however, the player characters are the exceptional members of society -- the Company of Heroes sorts who can face down Primals, explore the depths of Allagan ruins, and go around generally being Big Damn Heroes.

However, just because the PCs are Heroic doesn't mean that they don't face significant challenges. It takes 8 highly skilled adventurers to take on a single high-ranking Garlean commander and 24 to challenge the beings within the Crystal Tower. There's always someone or something more powerful. Characters can be powerful without being unimaginably Advent Children or Super Saiyan powerful. They can (and should!) have weaknesses, mental issues, and an underlying construct to explain why they can do what they do.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a character that's less powerful, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being powerful in the XIV setting. In fact, there's a lot of fun that can be had in exploring the implications of that power. How do you handle mundane issues like paying your rent or going out to dinner (or, Twelve forbid, trying to figure out how to split a check)? How do you best apply -- or don't apply -- that power? What's a real threat to you when you have magical healing, and shouldn't fates worse than death terrify you more?

Yes.

Val · **10-07-2014, 06:14 PM**

(10-07-2014, 03:40 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: I guess I'm the outlier here in that I see the world of the player characters as more of a mid-power "superheroic" setting, similar to a low Essence Exalted game or the more down to earth issues of Ultimates. Note that I say "the world of the player characters;" the PCs are a tiny subset of Eorzeans. Most Eorzeans are just average people living average fantasy lives in a setting where magic is relatively commonplace (how else do you explain those ceiling fans, huh? ). Those with combat skills are a subset of that, adventurers are a subset of that, competent adventurers are a subset of that, and you can go further if you want to subdivide based on access to Jobs, possession of the Echo, and so on. Yes, the vast majority of people are "grunts," as are the vast majority of adventurers; however, the player characters are the exceptional members of society -- the Company of Heroes sorts who can face down Primals, explore the depths of Allagan ruins, and go around generally being Big Damn Heroes.

However, just because the PCs are Heroic doesn't mean that they don't face significant challenges. It takes 8 highly skilled adventurers to take on a single high-ranking Garlean commander and 24 to challenge the beings within the Crystal Tower. There's always someone or something more powerful. Characters can be powerful without being unimaginably Advent Children or Super Saiyan powerful. They can (and should!) have weaknesses, mental issues, and an underlying construct to explain why they can do what they do.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a character that's less powerful, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being powerful in the XIV setting. In fact, there's a lot of fun that can be had in exploring the implications of that power. How do you handle mundane issues like paying your rent or going out to dinner (or, Twelve forbid, trying to figure out how to split a check)? How do you best apply -- or don't apply -- that power? What's a real threat to you when you have magical healing, and shouldn't fates worse than death terrify you more?

I agree. I have three main characters that I play, each of varying strengths. Cyrus would be considered an average Eorzean. He isn't incredibly powerful, and likely never will be. Despite this, he has high aspirations and does his best to help whoever he can while struggling to pay rent and provide for his lady. That's hisÂ struggle. He's more afraid of leaving his lady alone than actual death.

Val is certainly above average and definitely my best physical fighter. He is an anti-hero of sorts, though I use the term "hero" loosely as he would never actually help anyone unless he knew he got something out of it or his woman more or less demanded it of him. His struggle is his own personal, selfish desires against what the society he's found himself in expects of him.Â

Melfice is far above average, at least mentally. I try not to play him too much because he is meant to be a relatively powerful boss character for certain plots, though I have no problem dumbing him down and lowering his power to balance his interactions with random people. In fact, part of his disguise is to act as a sniveling coward when it comes to fights so that no one suspects he's capable of things. He is deathlyÂ afraid of what could come of a wrong experiment or what people would do to him if they found out, or what his Mistress couldÂ do to him if she simply wanted to.Â

I'm not against powerful characters, so long as they are at least kept balanced (unless they're boss characters. In that case, go nuts--within the realm of reason).

Aduu Avagnar · **10-07-2014, 06:38 PM**

(10-07-2014, 02:58 PM)Val Wrote: I agree that just regular swords would be fine, but if the guy has two ten feet, massive swords, it's a bit much. And with these smaller blades comes the need, in my opinion, to dodge or parry rather than outright block attacks unless they're well-armored, but then the ease of motion range of movement is limited to the excess weight.

I just wanted to pick up on the bolded bit here.

It is actually a historical Falacy that well armored people had a limited movement range compared to an unarmored or lightly armored opponent. In well fitted/made plate armor, for example, the wearer had a near normal range of motion, they were, for instance (if the wearer was indeed that flexible) able to touch their toes, mount up onto a horse with ease, and sprint.

That being said, they would be slower, but only marginally so.

Val · **10-07-2014, 06:53 PM**

(10-07-2014, 06:38 PM)Nako Wrote:
(10-07-2014, 02:58 PM)Val Wrote: I agree that just regular swords would be fine, but if the guy has two ten feet, massive swords, it's a bit much. And with these smaller blades comes the need, in my opinion, to dodge or parry rather than outright block attacks unless they're well-armored, but then the ease of motion range of movement is limited to the excess weight.

I just wanted to pick up on the bolded bit here.

It is actually a historical Falacy that well armored people had a limited movement range compared to an unarmored or lightly armored opponent. In well fitted/made plate armor, for example, the wearer had a near normal range of motion, they were, for instance (if the wearer was indeed that flexible) able to touch their toes, mount up onto a horse with ease, and sprint.

That being said, they would be slower, but only marginally so.

I think it would ultimately depend on the kind of armor worn. If it's bulky armor, like that one piece that has the helm built into it, then I'd imagine they'd have a lot of motion taken from them due to both the weight and the bulkiness of the set itself. Not to mention, the armor keeps the individual from being able to even turn their head.

Aduu Avagnar · **10-07-2014, 07:03 PM**

ok, yes, but I was assuming an element of logic here :p most plate armour isn't forged out of a single piece, rather overlapping bands or plates. and helmets tend to be separate. however yes, if you are wearing the armour with the helmet built in, then you are probably doomed to suffer the fate of pop culture knights.

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Realism vs Fantasy vs Then Anime

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes