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Warren Castille · **01-22-2015, 01:27 PM**

I, too, miss the 1.0 version of it. I loved the idea of a single common power (the memory leaping) with others getting various useful tidbits: Omnispeech, never getting sick, always knowing which way is North, etc etc. It made room for nuance, but now it's just a blanket toolkit.

It was, anyway!

Kage · **01-22-2015, 01:30 PM**

The cutscene where Minfillia talks about Echo and Primals

[youtube]ozyIc40akmI[/youtube]

Melkire · **01-22-2015, 02:25 PM**

Can't watch the vid at work atm to refresh my memory, but..

(01-22-2015, 01:24 PM)Kage Wrote: But I haven't found anything that says echo = Â temper protection.

I think they're separate. Echo as its own thing, and the "blessing of light" that Midgardsormr refers to as specifically the protection from tempering and/or being murdered by primals and the like.

This is sort-of kind-of supported by the (six? I forget how many)Â specialÂ crystals that the MC spends most of the MSQ gathering. They make an appearance in at least one Primal cutscene (Garuda's) that implies that they're at least part of the reason why you can't be tempered... and then the crystals show up again when they're depowered and shattered by Midgardsormr's consenting to Hydaelyn's covenant.

Gegenji · **01-22-2015, 02:29 PM**

(01-22-2015, 02:25 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(01-22-2015, 01:24 PM)Kage Wrote: But I haven't found anything that says echo = Â temper protection.

I think they're separate. Echo is its own thing, and the "blessing of light" that Midgardsormr refers to is specifically the protection from tempering and/or being murdered by primals and the like.

This is sort-of kind-of supported by the (six? I forget how many)Â specialÂ crystals that the MC spends most of the MSQ gathering. They make an appearance in at least one Primal cutscene (Garuda's) that implies that they're at least part of the reason why you can't be tempered... and then the crystals show up again when they're depowered and shattered by Midgardsormr's consenting to Hydaelyn's covenant.

At the very least, I vaguely remember something back when Ifrit tries to temper the PC with everyone else. I believe Ifrit himself claims that you've already been claimed by Hydaelyn. So, in a way, the Blessing is akin to Tempering, Drowning, Rocking, what-have-you.

... Which makes one wonder how much different Hydaelyn's blessing is from tempering.

Kage · **01-22-2015, 02:46 PM**

Welp.

It is the echo that protects us from tempering.

#140 Minfilia
Yet even as Ifrit took your comrades in his thrall, you alone remained unaffected. This is thanks to the power you possessâ”€the Echo.

#141 Minfilia
We know not the why of it, but those blessed with the Echo are immune to primal influence.

Melkire · **01-22-2015, 02:51 PM**

(01-22-2015, 02:46 PM)Kage Wrote: Welp.

It is the echo that protects us from tempering.

#140 Minfilia
Yet even as Ifrit took your comrades in his thrall, you alone remained unaffected. This is thanks to the power you possessâ”€the Echo.

#141 Minfilia
We know not the why of it, but those blessed with the Echo are immune to primal influence.

Well, shit. I want to write this down to "the Scions only have working theories, as seen when they flip out at the Sahagin Priest possessing other's bodies to resurrect himself," but then we'd have to question everything they tell us ever.

Now I'm wondering exactly what the significance of those crystals and their lattice was. And whether the MC is under Midgardsormr's aegis now rather than Hydaelyn's, because I can't see the MC facing primals anymore without some sort of protection (does this get addressed during the quests for the new Odin trial?).

Warren Castille · **01-22-2015, 02:53 PM**

Good catch. I guess that settles that? What exactly did Mid do, then?

Maybe the Echo already "taught" us how to speak Bad Guy, that's why we kept it?

Cato · **01-22-2015, 02:55 PM**

I do wonder if some individuals are naturally immune to the process of Tempering. Those with a very strong will, perhaps?

Melkire · **01-22-2015, 02:56 PM**

(01-22-2015, 02:53 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: What exactly did Mid do, then?

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Warren Castille · **01-22-2015, 02:59 PM**

(01-22-2015, 02:55 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I do wonder if some individuals are naturally immune to the process of Tempering. Those with a very strong will, perhaps?

Nothing so far to demonstrate that. It appears to be pretty instant.

G'raha's probably immune to it, though. He'd clutch his eye and ramble for six minutes about stuff, then wonder how he knew it.

Cactuar

Sounsyy · **01-22-2015, 03:01 PM**

(01-22-2015, 02:51 PM)Melkire Wrote: And whether the MC is under Midgardsormr's aegis now rather than Hydaelyn's, because I can't see the MC facing primals anymore without some sort of protection (does this get addressed during the quests for the new Odin trial?).

Well, 1) I would say Midgardsormr has no interest in protecting us. Remember how he tells us he swears he will do no harm to us, but that does not mean others won't.

2) In regards to Odin, yes, kind of:

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Gegenji · **01-22-2015, 03:01 PM**

(01-22-2015, 02:53 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Good catch. I guess that settles that? What exactly did Mid do, then?

Maybe the Echo already "taught" us how to speak Bad Guy, that's why we kept it?

Well, we're still unsure if we still have the Echo. Considering the circumstances, we have lost Hydaelyn's blessing... but we've already have proof that the Echo is not her blessing - or at least not something only she can bestow. It's also been noted that Minfilia had to be told of what happened - and she can apparently sense the Echo in others or something?

So, I think all we've lost is the Light and not the Echo. So, no more ripping primals out of ancient deathweapons and no more shielding from ultimate deathmagics. Which we hopefully won't need to do, anyway, unless the OTHER Weapon that's supposedly at the Battlefront (?) gets unearthed and activated. Oh, and the whole thing about the Light keeping the non-local Ascians from just waltzing in to harass you and yours.

Then again, we don't know what we've gained beyond a smarmy dragonling friend from coming under Middy's protection. So maybe he can cover for where Hydaelyn would step in save our keisters... and the Ascian who DID decide to capitalize on the sudden breach got his teeth kicked in. So, we'll just have to wait and see, I suppose.

Standard FFXIV procedure, really.

Kage · **01-22-2015, 03:03 PM**

Well, we still have the Echo as evidenced when we could still sense the Ascian (maybe?) but we definitely could understand him.

WHATEVER IT WAS WE HAD WITH HYDAELYN... it seems to have been superseded by Midgardsormr. Obviously though, Minfilia and co. don't want us talking about how we don't have this blessing... but then they also don't want us to talk about how we spoke to Midgardsormr.

Berrod Armstrong · **01-22-2015, 03:05 PM**

THEORY TIME:

Middums smashed Hydalyn's christmas-tree light circle and replaced it with babbu dragon? Perhaps they are essentially the same thing (the crystal circle and the dragon), just manifested differently due to the nature of the ones who granted them?Â

The way I see it, Middums just replaced Hydaelyn. While I doubt he can grant the LEVEL of strength she could (or perhaps he can, if she had only been using a set amount of power on us), perhaps he is capable of granting the echo in the form of his weirdo 'blessing' as well. This may very well aid us in resisting enthrallment and understanding other languages.

END OF THEORY TIME.

Melkire · **01-22-2015, 03:09 PM**

(01-22-2015, 03:01 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(01-22-2015, 02:51 PM)Melkire Wrote: And whether the MC is under Midgardsormr's aegis now rather than Hydaelyn's, because I can't see the MC facing primals anymore without some sort of protection (does this get addressed during the quests for the new Odin trial?).

Well, 1) I would say Midgardsormr has no interest in protecting us. Remember how he tells us he swears he will do no harm to us, but that does not mean others won't.

2) In regards to Odin, yes, kind of:

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Odin SpoilersOdin's blade Zantetsuken is actually the "Elder Primal" not Odin. The Blade only tempers (Severs) when it needs a new rider. So that was their explanation for why the F.A.T.E. Odin changes appearances and riders every time he's defeated. The Blade tempered the Adventurer who defeated him and that Adventurer becomes the next Odin. However, after you defeat Trial Odin, Zantetsuken is taken by the Padjal and given to the Gods' Quiver for safekeeping. At the end, the Blade tempers one of the Quivermen and they make off with the Blade to become the next incarnation of Odin.

1) I can see it going both ways. Others potentially doing harm to the MC doesn't necessarily mean he's going to stand by and do nothing. That said, his ongoing involvement is likely setup for Heavensward. Tasked to guard Silvertear Lake, takes down the Agrias, check. Roars and thereby summons the dragons against Ishgard (seemingly coincidental, I might add, to the Holy See falling under Ascian influence). Middy doesn't seem the benevolent type, but that doesn't exclude the possibility thatÂ his interests align somewhatÂ with the Scions'. (I really need to bumrush and finish MSQ this weekend)

2)

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Differences between the Echo and Hydaelyn's Blessing?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes