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Cato · **01-28-2015, 10:20 AM**

(01-28-2015, 10:16 AM)Clover Wrote: I'm a bit confused. I thought this thread was about the miqo'te lore, not so much about miqo'tesÂ seldom or often mentioning their tails and ears. At least my post was about the lore itself. A characters' body language is a matter of personal choice, I think, and not everyone is equally descriptiveÂ in their writing, so this point shouldn't really be a problemÂ (?). That or I've completely misunderstood it.

I think it's about pretty much both those things at this point.

Ritual · **01-28-2015, 10:23 AM**

I played a couple of Miqo'te when I first started playing the game, I remember adding in mentions of the tail and their fangs etc, but it felt so redundant, I feel you should only RP actions that give your character well, character, if yo are going to add these elements into your character don't add them in all the time, make it a quirk of your character. When they're stressed make their ears twitch or their tail sway faster etc, don't just mention these things all the time to reiterate your character is a Miqo'te because I can see that.Â

I play an Elezen now, he's not a tall snobby person, he has traits of Schizoid PD and is a hunter/carpenter type, if you got to know him however, you'll notice he uses his keen eyesight to analyse characters outfits and demeanour so he can paint a picture of them in his mind. These can just be given to a Hyur, but the issue is there really isn't any major difference between Hyur/Elezen at all, except maybe that I was told Wildwoods discriminate against Duskwights and everyone I've seen RP completely ignores this, I know it's not nice to go around discriminating against a player base and I'm not saying we should, but why should we care about the minor details of emoting things about your races when 1. We can clearly see you are said race and 2. It's so easy to handwave away all the lore background to your character by saying, "My family was different." that there is no longer a reason for the Miqo'te to act tribal or the Elezen or any of the races to act a certain way?

Not to mention people have varying ways of RP so again there's no point in caring to an extent unless it's severely negatively affecting you.

Kahn'a · **01-28-2015, 10:26 AM**

Essentially, you pile a lot of different cultures together in a given place, eventually one will rise as the â€œmainâ€ culture, migrating individuals are then given a choice: either they fold, and get assimilated into it, or they stand and they become part of the struggling minorities.

In the process of assimilation, identities may lose some of their flavour, behaviours may mutate to adopt the common mores of the place they live in. I believe this is where most Miqo'te are, because you don't really see a lot of successful â€œcity-tribesâ€. Indeed, if they wish to stay traditionnal, they mostly keep to themselves, and generally far from the cities.

So yes, take this phenomenon and add the fact that the lore on Miqo'te culture is a tad slim, and you will get what we observe now. Some Miqo'te will give out the impression of being cat-like Hyurs.

â€œIs it fine?â€ Yes it is.

â€œWhy do you play a Miqo'te instead of a Hyur then?â€ Ah, that's where the answers will vary.

Mine is that because Miqo'te is an old race whose lifestyle is going under some brutal changes, mostly because of the Calamity, the notion of struggle is never too far from them. I like the movement that brings to a character. I like the prospect of playing a character who has to dig out the ways he received to change them, whether or not it is by necessity. Yes, old ways might not be as viable anymore, trades and encounters might inspire individuals to move out, and those very ones might meet trouble adapting to a new lifestyle.

Now what is important is that adapting is a process, for some even life-long. That journey is interesting to play out. So while it is fair to have some Miqo'te individuals with a â€œrefinedâ€ or â€œcivilizedâ€ behaviour, I find it most appropriate to have them stand in an awkward place with the society, with unexpected quirks, strange and old ways of speaking â€” isn't that conveniant for me? â€” or just generally different views.

Little things that will make them stand out from the Hyurs, the Lalafells, the Elezens and the Roegadyns. Those bring flavour, but should not by no means be enforced.

Enteris · **01-28-2015, 10:31 AM**

(01-28-2015, 09:39 AM)Kinono Wrote:
(01-28-2015, 09:04 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: On one hand, it's logical. Miqo'te should be using their ears and tails and whatnot. On the other hand, it could be considered redundant writing if you acknowledge that our characters are familiar with the other races. It's very definitely a detail that could be left off in casual conversation - How often do you take specific notice of your pet's tail? Their ears? Unless they're behaving strangely, do you even really notice that stuff at all?

I've always been more of a dialogue writer myself, so I always overlook that stuff in my writing. I don't think it makes it bad, or worse or lesser somehow, though.

As sad as I am to admit it, there are times where I'm much lazier in RP than others, and times where I'm just more inspired. I don't RP a miqo'te currently, but even as just a short, fat kid, there are times when I'm much more explicit with Kino's mannerisms in /em than others, so it's definitely not something I'd begrudge a miqo'te player for leaving out. I imagine it'd get tiring re-iterating and re-establishing "yes, I am a miqo'te" all the time, and, to be honest, there's a chance it'd be just as tiring to read.

So many things to respond to... where to begin?

Well first, tossing this in for relevance:Â http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=7880

But as was stated above, I believe it would get tiring on both ends to read and type that the ears and tail twitch as the miqo'te grins, their fangs showing slightly before ............ It's an unneeded redundancy. By all means, throw it in if/when you can, but don't feel obligated to do so.

I think it's a bad move to call someone out on their RP style and capability for not adding in subtle movements of ears and tails. It shows, to me, that you are more focused on superficial things rather than the actual RP/story/events going on. As was stated above, you can see that the character is a miqo'te. And unless the player says otherwise, I'm pretty sure people won't mind you assuming that they are actually ICly a miqo'te... complete with ear and tail movements.

On the topic of smelling... what exactly do you expect someone to do? Meta game and say your character didn't wipe correctly so they smell of feces? Meta game and say that your character must've taken three steps through a field of lilacs? I mean, short of there being an actual reason to state that something smells... this can really fall under that "assume it's happening" category.Â

As to the miqo'te whoring bit... it's hard to deny when there is in-game evidence of such behavior (can't remember what thread the screenshots were in). Or, at least, those miqo'te hovering all over La Noscea sure do make it seem like a fairly common thing in lore with how very playful they are... and it does often seem to be miqo'te moreso than any other race.Â

That being said, I agree that it would be refreshing to see more tribal affiliated miqo'te, or at least those that do ICly make mention of their relation to a tribe. And that's coming from a player with a seeker miqo'te that has pretty much been handed the reins of a brothel. And a player with a keeper miqo'te that is very much rooted in his "traditional" ways to the best of my understanding and ability with our very limited lore.

As to the time of day deal... I've run into very few miqo'te (that aren't mew mew neko neko =^.^= chan kawaii types) that actually don't make mention of this. The large majority of them have made known some sort of preference as to their respective celestial being... so I can't really comment on that particular deal to any extent. Unless, of course your issue is the whole in-game clock vs real life clock and who is right... it'd be hard to get any RP done for ANY race if we were to make our characters go to bed at a "realistic" (read: when the sun goes down for the majority of the races) time. We'd have maybe forty minutes tops of RP before our characters would yawn and pretty much immediately nod off...

Seriphyn · **01-28-2015, 10:36 AM**

^ That's construing player demographics and RPer habits for lore...which has some RP utility admittedly, but not something I'd preach as canon.

At any rate, I find myself thinking both Warren's post and the quoted post in the OP are both pretty valid, and enjoyed reading both. Thing is, it's such an egregious fan service race I have to give anyone playing a "neko race" the benefit of the doubt. Male cats TEND TO (but not universally) be some uber Kirito-kun anime badass. Female cats have a greater chance of not being irritating and are closer to the lore. Then there was that thread where Miqo'te players who said they like playing Miqo'te is "because they like cats IRL".

The most amusing things about these Miqo'te discussions is when people legitimately and unironically try to defend Seeker culture. Embrace it! Embrace all the lore, even if it's shitty!

Cato · **01-28-2015, 10:37 AM**

What's wrong with Seeker culture?

Warren Castille · **01-28-2015, 10:43 AM**

(01-28-2015, 10:37 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: What's wrong with Seeker culture?

To take a guess:

SE handed players lore that outright said "These guys in specific get ALL the tail they want, and yes, you can play as one."

They made Sex God a playable race.

Bopdoot · **01-28-2015, 10:46 AM**

I think OP was more concerned with the ignorance of lore rather than emoting tail swishing lol..though everyone seems to he fixated on the latter to invalidate OPs argument.

Let's take a gander at the wiki so I can, as a new player, understand miqote.Â

1. Miqote have a lesser presence than other races. (Reality, miqote are the majority on Balmung. Â At least based on a pie chart I found. Â It's not reasonable to force people not to play a race because there's already a lot on the server,but it's food for thought.)

2. Shyness / solitary lifestyles. (Reality, it almost seems like miqote are the most outgoing race I've seen so far in RP. Â Should EVERY miqote be brooding and live like a lone wolf? No, but as an RPer, you should at least present a reason why your character deviates from a racial norm.)

3. Seeker devotion to Ayzema. (Reality, I have not witnessed enough RP with miqote to know of their culture reflects their religion but I think it absolutely should. FFXIV is not really a world of atheists lol..)

4. Keeper devotion to Menphina. Conflict with Gridania forest folk. (Reality,same answer as #3.)

5. RP of day/night cycles. (The game has an in-engine clock with passing time. Are you a bad RPer if you ignore it? Probably not, but I think it could improve immersion no matter what race you're playing.)

Tl;Dr this is just my perspective. Sorry for any weird typos I'm at work and I did this on my phone xD.Â Smile

Cato · **01-28-2015, 10:47 AM**

(01-28-2015, 10:43 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(01-28-2015, 10:37 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: What's wrong with Seeker culture?

To take a guess:

SE handed players lore that outright said "These guys in specific get ALL the tail they want, and yes, you can play as one."

They made Sex God a playable race.

Oh, well I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It's balanced out by the Keepers of the Moon being much more matriarchal. There's definitely many more Nunh than would seemingly be realistic (and many of them aren't even a tribe anymore which sort of makes the title redundant...) but it's usually easy to tell which are role-played for the sake of portraying an interesting character and which are just blatant ERP bait.

Aduu Avagnar · **01-28-2015, 10:51 AM**

I reference Nako's tail and ears when appropriate, if someone mentions his name, or he hears something of interest, his ears twitch, etc.

If you find him in the right mood and ask the right questions, he will talk about his family group, etc, but he isn't really one to spill his life story out or talk about himself. He is ultimately, a private person when it comes to his personal life.

Warren Castille · **01-28-2015, 10:53 AM**

(01-28-2015, 10:46 AM)Bopdoot Wrote: I think OP was more concerned with the ignorance of lore rather than emoting tail swishing lol..though everyone seems to he fixated on the latter to invalidate OPs argument.

I have to disagree, if only because those points are brought up in the very same sentiment as writing folks off as "cosplayer."

Quote:What I'm on about with "Hyur in cat ears and a tail" is that for the vast majority of Miqo'te RPers you could retcon their character into a Hyur and absolutely nothing would be different other than them no longer having ears and a tail. This holds true for a lot of long time veterans around here who are otherwise great roleplayers.

It's things like never emoting the expressiveness of these aforementioned ears, or the tail, failing to ever use the sensitive nose to emote picking up scents, ignoring the Keeper diurnal tendency entirely, and (although it's fine to have a non-traditional Miqo'te) outright ignoring the lore because many find it distasteful - at least have the character acknowledge that lore with an IC rejection, don't pretend it doesn't exist at all or be outright hostile to those who acknowledge Keeper promiscuity or the political correctness nightmare that is Seeker harems.

They're his first three points of debate, not an aside at the end being focused on. If these are the pieces of evidence to back up his claim, I'm going to debate them.

***Alothia*** · **01-28-2015, 10:57 AM**

Honestly, I picked Miqo' before I started RPing. Aesthetically, I liked the way they looked. I didn't know what RP was, I didn't even know I would be doing it. So no, my character name does not meet the lore. I started RPing in November of 1.0 release year, and Alothia was my first RP character ever. When I learned something in game, I tried to remember it and use it in her storyline. Am I perfect, no. But I tried to incorporate her physical differences when it mattered. If she was angry, her tail would lash and her ears would flatten against her head. Her fangs would poke out when she grinned. It was an always present thing. She was and is a Miqo'te in appearance and movement.

When 2.0 hit, I could have re-rolled her as a Hyur because of the Fantasia potions. Did I? No. Because I have art of Alothia. I have a strong connection to her as a character and the way that she looks is important to me. I have, however tried to connect the lore that I have learned about Miqo'te and put it into her story.

I know plenty of people who have done the same with their characters. Saying that Miqo'te have to act a certain way is no different than saying that people of a certain race IRL have to act like that stereotype. IRL, there are reasons that people act the way that they do. If you have a reason for your character to act the way that they do, whether it is something that they feel the need to tell everyone they meet or no, why should it matter? Perhaps their reasoning is something that they're ashamed of. Perhaps it is something that they don't think of because it is so deeply ingrained in their persona. Again, what does it matter?

Does Y'shtola act any differently than her human counterparts in the storyline? I don't ever remember her doing so. Sure, there are some NPCs that embody the tribal life, the tribal traditions. But there are those that don't as well. Just as in the real world, we should have characters that fit the spectrum of personalities, character quirks, and backgrounds.

To say that all characters should fit into a certain mold is to do a disservice to the breadth of originality in both writing and in life.

Warren Castille · **01-28-2015, 11:00 AM**

See, Keepers always be walkin' like this, but Seekers? Seekers always be walkin' like this.

/laughtrack

Parvacake · **01-28-2015, 11:02 AM**

(01-28-2015, 08:37 AM)allgivenover Wrote: ...and (although it's fine to have a non-traditional Miqo'te) outright ignoring the lore because many find it distasteful - at least have the character acknowledge that lore with an IC rejection, don't pretend it doesn't exist at all or be outright hostile to those who acknowledge Keeper promiscuity or the political correctness nightmare that is Seeker harems.

This right here is one of my peeves when it comes to RPing the miqo'te. Especially when I see in many miqo'te RPers. I almost made a thread about it one night, but after talking with my boyfriend about it I figured I'd be opening up yet another can of worms that might stem into some kind of bickering that some of my last threads have started due to their content ("Polyamory: A Roleplay Guide" being one of the biggies for its controversial nature).

I don't feel like we should all RP our characters in a cookie cutter sort of way, mind you, but a certain level of acknowledgement and lore following is expected since the game does give us plenty to go off of if you know where to look or even if you browse the forums here or on the main site. Especially with a race like the miqo'te that, let's face it, goes against a lot of our social and cultural norms many of us have had hammered into us since we were small. Keeper promiscuity being one of them.

There have been many a night that I have facedesked and groaned with frustration when I'd be out RPing something as simple as bar chat and a miqo'te with traditional naming, mannerisms, and everything else shows disgust and disdain for the 'sluttiness' of his/her people. When it's like "...you do realize it's a cultural norm, ja?".

Granted, I understand that part of RPing individual characters is that some of them will go against the norm. Which is part of the beauty of having your own character: to an extent, you're allowed to let them go against the grain. It's part of what can make them fun!

But it's almost all that I see around. Save a handful of miqo'te RPers that I've met over the almost year since I've been on this game full time, when the topic comes up there's some sort of judgement, scorn, etc. Like what they're doing is wrong and despicable when it's what many NPCs, lorehounds, and otherwise acknowledge as being part of the racial structure. With the variations between clans (Keeper and Seeker) of course.

As for the subtle motions and the like being described in the RP, I do it about 40% of the time with my miqos. For the most part? I'm too focused on the story and dialogue to remember to put it in place all of the time and I never think much of it if others don't add it in for themselves.

Also as for the miqo'te being like cats...they have a lot of catlike mannerisms. I don't mind myself if one plays them more neko like (as long as it's not going into anime style territory). I mean, hell, just watch the female miqo'te sleep animation when you log out or exit the game from an innroom. Kitty central, yo. Not including many of the emotes the miqo'te have.

Knight Kat · **01-28-2015, 11:07 AM**

(01-28-2015, 09:05 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: It depends on the approach. I mean, I won't lie - it would be refreshing to see more Miqo'te acting like Miqo'te. Even the subtle stuff like twitching ears or struggling to grasp the full extent of Eorzean culture can make a huge difference in terms of a character's impact.

I play a Miqo'te. I play around A LOT of other Miqo'te. I think the problem IMHO is that it's harder to see those Miqo'te who play to be Miqo'te when you have them mixed in with the many who don't do so in a place like Ul'dah's Quicksand.

I can tell you that I meet lots of Miqo'te who act like Miqo'te. They kinda have to be dug out, but there are many. I agree with many of your points though.

SilverWolfIMHP Wrote:Now here is a real question involved with this topic. How much Beast is in a Miqto'te? The Art of them they are more or less Human with cat ears and tail, where a Khajiit are bi-ped felines. How savage could a Miqto'to life be? There bound to be trade with non-Miqto'te they have weapons and training enough to go toe to toe with the Guardians. Equipment made by Miqto'te is on par with what you can get elsewhere. They are even moving into other culture's cities.

The question of how much beast is in Miqo'te isn't entirely answered in-game. Or maybe it is, but it is not so specific or defining.

For example, take IRL humans. We are literally the most dangerous animals on this planet. We can be the meanest, most savage and brutal creatures. We chase lions, hunt elephants, kill sharks and whales. We are the apex predators of our world because we are mean enough, bold enough and smart enough to face any creature (under the right circumstances with the right tools).

However, we are also more capable of charity and kindness than what you see from most animals in nature. We will spare something if we pity or feel sympathy for it. We care for animals that are not our own kind.

You have humans in this day and age who hunt animals with bows while you have the people who wear fancy suits every day to their "civilized" job. This world has "savage" humans and "civilized" humans.

I see it as possibly being no different for Miqo'te. Based on NPCs, I see savage Miqo'te and civilized Miqo'te. I see some NPCs act more cat-like while others don't show as much cat-like tendency.

If you go back far enough in history, I think it would be found that all the races in Eorzea probably lived in tribal societies at some point. It is just so note-worthy for Miqo'te because at least -some- groups still live in tribal societies in modern Eorzea. It is mentioned in the character creation lore, and referenced a few times in-game.

TL;DR: To me, I see a place where both tribal and urban Miqo'te exist. A place where both feral hunters (Pawah Mujuuk) and civilized Miqos (Y'shtola) exist. I think people are right and entitled to play either and anything in between as long as they acknowledge that their interpretation may not be fact, and that the lore for both types of Miqo'te -is- there.

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Racial RP: How do YOU do it?

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