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Bopdoot · **01-28-2015, 12:25 PM**

I think it boils down to why individuals RP. Â Are they seeking deep immersion in setting lore? Are they simply living out a personal fantasy vicariously through they're character? I think most of us are a bit of both..leaning more one way.Â

Luckily we can choose who to RP with and who to avoid. Surround yourself with people that match your RP goals I guess.

As a personal opinion... I think you can successfully RP a sexual culture without spending most of an evening typing out the act of intercourse. To each their own, I personally would rather do something more productive with my RP time. Â >.> Fade-to-black is good enuff for meee.Â Laugh

*EDITTED BECAUSE AUTOCORRECT SUCKS*

Cato · **01-28-2015, 12:25 PM**

Even if Seeker Miqo'te hadn't been written with the whole 'Nunh' thing I'm pretty confident in suggesting that those same players desperately using it for unsavoury means would still be playing overly sexual characters designed for ERP and little else. Certain races/niches just attract that sort of thing like a bee to pollen.

C'kayah Polaali · **01-28-2015, 12:33 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:15 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(01-28-2015, 12:10 PM)Knahli Wrote: But that's such a modern societal view of it. I wonder how many tias actually see that side of it as opposed to treating it as a position of respect and honour. It defines them as the most capable hunter in the tribe and one whom bears the responsibility of siring the next generation. All I ever see are people scrutinizing it and writing it off as though it were just like:

"lol im nuhn now. all de girlz are mien."

Plus they don't really get any girl they want when they want. They obvious have to establish relationships with some of the girls that support him and not just treat them as pregnancy machine, haha.

That requires nuance and reading, though. We're discussing the lowest-denominator groups who saw tails, ears and alpha male positioning and stopped reading. Good roleplayers will play good characters. I'm challenging the idea that not emoting your tail or being overtly-miqoish in emotes removes you from the "good roleplayer" side of things.

I do not think SE did themselves any favors incorporating such a taboo concept, though. It's going to draw folks who are only in it for the ass, and has.

You clearly haven't seen C'kayah around any of the self-proclaimed adventurer Nunhs, have you?

In any case, as someone who pretty much only plays Miqo'te, I can definitely see what you're talking about in terms of "Hyur with cat suit" roleplay. But it's not really "Hyur with cat suit". It's "Modern person with cat suit". You see that with everyone.

Hyurs aren't modern humans, yet you see lots of people who are played either as "ordinary Americans dropped off in Eorzea" or "Some very specific culture dropped off in Eorzea". A prominent roleplayer on this forum roleplays a Samurai. You, Warren, don't have a particularly Highlander name.

How many Lalafell are played as the passionate, powerful people that they actually are? Ul'dah is a Lalafell city, after all! The rest of us have just emigrated there.

Find me a Roegadyn that actually plays to the traditional Roegadyn culture.

Elezen RPers are probably the most lore-appropriate - at least the ones that I've seen - statistically. This may have something to do with the relatively small numbers of them on Balmung.

But, of course, if you look at the races as portrayed by the various quests, things get complicated. They're all over the map, culturally. Urbanized non-tribal Miqo'te outnumber the actual traditionals by something like 5:1. You're hard pressed to find a hint of traditional Roegadyn culture in Merlwyb and her crew. Highlanders are supposed to be touchy about their names, yet you never see any hint of this.

You could almost argue that the roleplayers who create Miqo'te named "Take'me B'igboy" and are in it solely for the ERP are doing a better job of playing their characters to lore than those of us who try to play "real" Miqo'te.

I've got to address this, though:

(01-28-2015, 09:05 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Even the subtle stuff like twitching ears or struggling to grasp the full extent of Eorzean culture can make a huge difference in terms of a character's impact.

Why should Miqo'te have trouble grasping the full extent of Eorzean culture? Why would ignorance about the world be a Miqo'te trait? You look at the U-tribe Miqo's in the MSQ, they're fully engaged in the world and aware of things happening across Eorzea. Tribal doesn't mean isolated.

Gegenji · **01-28-2015, 12:34 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:25 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: Even if Seeker Miqo'te hadn't been written with the whole 'Nunh' thing I'm pretty confident in suggesting that those same players desperately using it for unsavoury means would still be playing overly sexual characters designed for ERP and little else. Certain races/niches just attract that sort of thing like a bee to pollen.

I could just as confidently say that this would likely happen even if there weren't Miqo'te around as a race. If not Miqote, then Hyur or Roegadyn. Heck, I'm sure there's someone other there ready and eager to show how little Popotoes are made. It's just the fantasy they're going for - and that fantasy involves getting laid. The cat ears/dragon horns just happen to be a bonus.

***Alothia*** · **01-28-2015, 12:38 PM**

I think that having cookie cutter roles for different races leads to a dull and dry sort of Eorzea.

We want people who differ. We want people who go against the "norm" of their culture, because that causes conflict, and really, what are we as RPers if not drama mongers (just drama of our own making).

Again, it's like saying that the sky, because it's the sky, is always blue.

It's not. There are so many hues of orange, yellow, purple, gray, black....to ignore them, is to ignore the beauty of the sky as a whole.

K'nahli · **01-28-2015, 12:46 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:15 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(01-28-2015, 12:10 PM)K Wrote: But that's such a modern societal view of it. I wonder how many tias actually see that side of it as opposed to treating it as a position of respect and honour. It defines them as the most capable hunter in the tribe and one whom bears the responsibility of siring the next generation. All I ever see are people scrutinizing it and writing it off as though it were just like:

"lol im nuhn now. all de girlz are mien."

Plus they don't really get any girl they want when they want. They obvious have to establish relationships with some of the girls that support him and not just treat them as pregnancy machine, haha.

That requires nuance and reading, though. We're discussing the lowest-denominator groups who saw tails, ears and alpha male positioning and stopped reading. Good roleplayers will play good characters. I'm challenging the idea that not emoting your tail or being overtly-miqoish in emotes removes you from the "good roleplayer" side of things.

I do not think SE did themselves any favors incorporating such a taboo concept, though. It's going to draw folks who are only in it for the ass, and has.

Ahhh, I see. I apologise for the misunderstanding.

Knight Kat · **01-28-2015, 12:47 PM**

(01-28-2015, 11:14 AM)Alothia Wrote: Oi vey. This is something that people need to stop doing. Projecting OUR cultural norms onto our characters...is not cool.

Just because you're not okay with it OOCly, doesn't mean that your character is against it. If it's a societal thing, then there needs to be an understanding that your character is probably not going to have a problem with it.

Now, if you want to create a reasonable reason for your character to struggle with it, that's one thing. But simply saying that your character isn't okay with it....that's another thing entirely.

Yes, please, this. But it's like most people can't help it. Especially with IC romantic relationships.

I have no problem with Miqo'te characters, or any other characters looking negatively upon traditional Miqo'te culture. However, like it or not, the lower birth rate of male Miqo'te -does- change things. You can't sustain a species (race, whatever) on long-term pair bonding when males are so few due to natural birth rate.

A character can scoff at and insult a promiscuous or polyamorous Miqo'te all they want. My character will see the one being regarded negatively as doing what is best for their race. However, IRL, I am not promiscuous, nor do I practice polyamory. The latter still not being regarded in a negative way IRL though.

Sastra Wrote:I get a little miffed when people say that all Miqo'te rpers are just yaoi/yiff/anime/insert-your-fandom-fetish-here excuses, because it's a bit of a short-sighted generalization that doesn't fit 95% of the serious RP crowd that has a miqo'te. It's kind of like saying all football fans are violent hooligans. In general, I haven't been in contact with the fandoms and the fetishes that people so often compare it to - I don't watch a whole lot of Anime and I'm not big on the japaneese culture. Literally what I thought when I saw the Miqo'te was that I like cats, in the sense that I find them interesting, and felt it was kind of cool to see that kind of a mix between man and cat. Just like I'm sure there's a lot of people getting interested in the Au Ra because dragons are fucking awesome like. So that makes them interesting to them.

Give your local Miqo'te a chance <3

Yes, this too. If anyone wants to see some Miqo'te who try to maintain culture and Miqo'te tendencies, come RP with my FC. I can also make a list of all the "serious" Miqo'te player characters I know (both traditional and non-traditional) if this generalizing keeps up.

Cato · **01-28-2015, 12:47 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:38 PM)Alothia Wrote: I think that having cookie cutter roles for different races leads to a dull and dry sort of Eorzea.

We want people who differ. We want people who go against the "norm" of their culture, because that causes conflict, and really, what are we as RPers if not drama mongers (just drama of our own making).

Again, it's like saying that the sky, because it's the sky, is always blue.

It's not. There are so many hues of orange, yellow, purple, gray, black....to ignore them, is to ignore the beauty of the sky as a whole.

I don't think that's what anyone is getting at within this thread though. Characters can be different and still remain within the confines of plausibility. If they're just creative liberties stacked on top of yet more creative liberties, however, then that is just as boring as a character that never deviates from the stereotype associated with their character's race.

Zhavi · **01-28-2015, 12:48 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:38 PM)Alothia Wrote: I think that having cookie cutter roles for different races leads to a dull and dry sort of Eorzea.

We want people who differ. We want people who go against the "norm" of their culture, because that causes conflict, and really, what are we as RPers if not drama mongers (just drama of our own making).

Again, it's like saying that the sky, because it's the sky, is always blue.

It's not. There are so many hues of orange, yellow, purple, gray, black....to ignore them, is to ignore the beauty of the sky as a whole.

The problem isn't going against the "norm" of the culture.

It's that developers of most fantasy settings make laughable excuses of cultures that define a whole species.

I mean, christ, we're still learning about various human cultures ! The western world is still actively seeking out and discovering new facets of people that we hadn't previously documented or known about!

And yet the majority of non-human fantasy species are nothing more than an insert of poorly adapted human trait that defines the 'theme' of various fantasy species, and dictates how most of a species is supposed to act in a cultural sense?

Uh huh. Yup. Excuse me while I ignore it in favor of adapting a richer background with less stereotype and ignorance. [note: not saying people who choose to go with it and enrich it are in any way less -- kudos to them. What I'm saying is penalizing those who choose to go a different route is really rather silly in a big way -- especially because there is absolutely no indication of species defining behaviors beyond a few cosmetic things. Every. Single. Intelligent. Species. in this game acts like humans in a major way with a few minor props tossed in.]

/extraranty

Ritual · **01-28-2015, 12:52 PM**

I don't really see this thread getting anywhere any time soon, all that has been established is that there is a split in how people believe something should be RPed, or how they perceive cultures, other people, basically what has been established is what everyone's talking about, not every character will act to lore or to their culture, not everyone has the same views, a vast majority of people are different, which is pretty much what the discussion is about. There is no right and wrong, these are just concepts created by society or a culture, individuals also have their own ways of saying what is right or wrong, saying that other people are RPing a Miqo'te wrong has no real basis, there is no objectivity in that and that is why discussions like this will keep going and going because everyone has their own views on subjects like this.Â

This thread has a good potential of just becoming another hot-pot discussion like ERP, you can have you're own views, but lets not try to enforce these views on others, agree to disagree and move on, because this will just go around and around and won't end until people just tire of the thread until another comes a long.

Clover · **01-28-2015, 12:53 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:21 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: All that said, I do wish there were more tribal miqo'te about, and I do wish we saw more conflict between the "city miqo'te" and the "country miqo'te."

I'm eager to bring any of my tribal miqo'tes to Ul'dah for some trading, so that they can get more of that cultural shock. I haven't yet because they're in an important tribal scene, but the idea of bringing my Tia to Ul'dah has been in my mind for a long time. It'll be fun >_<

That aside, I also wish there were more tribal miqo'tes. Tribes are supposed to be the norm with Seekers, but we're such a small minority *sweatdrops* (and just for the record, I don't personally like or even understand the way Seekers work, but I enjoy the challenge of having to follow rules. It's not like I actually have to RP the things that make me uncomfortable, as my character isn't going to give herself to any Nunh; she just understands it'll happen "someday" and that's it. With this I mean that RPing a tribal miqo'te doesn't mean you have to engage or even assume that ERP is happening; that's not the only point of their culture).

Kinono · **01-28-2015, 12:53 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:33 PM)C'kayah Polaali Wrote: How many Lalafell are played as the passionate, powerful people that they actually are? Ul'dah is a Lalafell city, after all! The rest of us have just emigrated there.

*raise hand, passionately and powerfully*

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS.

***Alothia*** · **01-28-2015, 12:58 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:52 PM)Ritual Wrote: Â There is no right and wrong, these are just concepts created by society or a culture, individuals also have their own ways of saying what is right or wrong, saying that other people are RPing a Miqo'te wrong has no real basis, there is no objectivity in that and that is why discussions like this will keep going and going because everyone has their own views on subjects like this.Â

I think that my meaning got lost in my last post, but it's pretty much this. There is no right or wrong as to how you play anything. Your Miqo is more hyur-like? That's cool (as long as there's reasoning behind it). Your Miqo is tribal and does the tribal thing? Awesome.

The world needs all kinds to be fleshed out. You do your character how you want.

Warren Castille · **01-28-2015, 01:01 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:33 PM)Ckayah Polaali Wrote: You, Warren, don't have a particularly Highlander name.

I want to narrow in on this, right here. You are absolutely correct that Warren's name isn't lore-abiding. I also fully expect people to see that and write it off. That's fine, but I've done my best to explain where his name comes from (posted it here somewhere, too) and I've made a number of veiled references to Warren's non-standard upbringing. I don't expect anyone to notice these things, or care about them. But, they're there. That's why I get defensive when people look at a snippet of someone's RP, or their name, or their anything-face-value, and make judgements about that person, their RP or their ability. When I meet people ICly with non-standard names, I just assume they aren't from around here. I hope people do the same for me.

Not saying that this is what you've done, but I wanted to show how this could be done.

Ultimately, the only people who'll learn Warren's backstory are the folks he tells it to, and I'm fine with that. If you're the type to write me (or anyone) off due to some overheard Quicksand banter or something, you're probably not the sort of person I want to roleplay with anyway. There's plenty of other reasons to not want to RP with me!

Gegenji · **01-28-2015, 01:02 PM**

(01-28-2015, 12:52 PM)Ritual Wrote: This thread has a good potential of just becoming another hot-pot discussion like ERP, you can have you're own views, but lets not try to enforce these views on others, agree to disagree and move on, because this will just go around and around and won't end until people just tire of the thread until another comes a long.

That's the feeling I've been getting too, actually.

The original basis of the discussion was how one person felt other people should RP their Miqo'te - making use of their ears and tails to identify them as something beyond Hyurs with cat features. It somehow evolved - as such things often do - into people discussing how Miqo'te should be portrayed as a whole, including their culture background since it's always the biggest talking point about them.

Some people will stick closer to lore, some will not. Some will have "legitimate" reasons why their characters don't stick to lore and some won't. Some created their characters for their rich stories and interactions, some just want something pretty to look at while they punch bugs for four hours. These happen across all MMOs, all races; not just Miqo'te.

It's all just how people choose approach the game. You can tut and complain about how everyone else is doing it wrong, but that's just personal bias and opinion. Everyone is deriving their own enjoyment from the game, whether it's through progression, casual play, light-RP, heavy-RP, ERP, or a mixture of the above. The best one can do is just try to find those who you enjoy interacting with and just... do your thing with them.

Unless you're being a troll. That's just obnoxious. </hypocrite>
Seriously, though. The only time I have an issue with how people play is when they try to impose their views on others. Example, the trolls who crash RP events because they think "RP is dumb." Saying how people SHOULD be playing their characters can get rather close to this mindset, and that worries me.

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