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**Unnamed Mercenary** · **02-11-2015, 09:48 AM**

I remember a grumpy mercenary who got into a fight with a temporarily demoted Sultansworn turned Brass Blade once. He might've won if it weren't for that pesky -other- Sultansworn showing up.

Edit: I should add that it was over the forums. On a slow day. And said mercenary got quite a few stares for it. When he attempted in game, they HAD to take it to the street because a circle of people kept trying to watch/get in the way.

OOC Note: the Quicksand is one of the most densely populated area jn the game. There would be flood of people who would get involved.

Kage · **02-11-2015, 10:07 AM**

Based on previous experiences, you'll get people claiming OOCly white-knighting when really ICly, people are upset someone's picking a fight/harassing their friend. You also get people OOCly claiming people are overstepping their "grounds"/"rank".

If you pick a fight, I know some hate this cause it goes against just having the story write itself, but I completely believe that some OOC communication is needed? Why? Because any type of confrontation I have been in turns into (AND I'LL SAY IT) a clusterfuck. Some of them in massive proportions.

Re: Kiht's scene: ICly Natalie had a linkshell of friends of whom she'd met through her duties or just other things. She calls over the linkshell when confronted. A bunch of them show up.

_____ in said LS gets attacked. People scramble all over the place trying to find THAT ONE FUCKING HEALER who can heal someone from a mauling or a backstabbing.

Kage gets KIDNAPPED from the Quicksand. Kage's friends notice something is up and OOCly as well as ICly I just tried to let things run its course. This actually became one of the most clusterfuck things I have ever seen happen. It was hectic and fun, but ohmyfuckinggod >.> The linkshell was still ICly used and most of these friends were made from meeting people in the Quicksand. You could say it was in its name >.> OOCly I said nothing. ICly, Kage tried to not get people involved because he had a big ass cray femroe willing to shank him. Kage's friends contact each over through the LS and a bunch of them start to confront this femroe. Queue running. Queue kidnapper being tackled while said shiv is still to Kage's back. Kage is shanked and some try to save him while EVEN MORE PEOPLE start to follow and try to track down this femroe.

Femroe is tracked down* and is confronted by like 15 people. It'd be a Mexican standoff because OTHER PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE CURRENT SCENE was looking for Femroe for something else.

Then someone brings the injured Kage to the scene of manymany people and Kage gets taken by another femroe. Who puts an axe to his neck. And people still want to take this new femroe down trying to bluff around Kage's life.

.... Yeah it was a clusterfuck. >.>;

tl;dr: I sincerely believe that if you don't want a scene of 5 people to become a scene of 30 people.... OOC communication!!!!! Especially in a place around or inside the Quicksand.

*At the time I know some people thought the tracking was done.... not quite kosher. Whatever. I don't know anymore.

SicketySix · **02-11-2015, 10:13 AM**

(02-11-2015, 09:25 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: This is quite the point of contention.

I'm of the opinion that it's acceptable for folks to want to start a fight, but it's also acceptable (and encouraged) to adhere when the various folks playing Blades/Sworn/Flames show up to bust asses. Most of the time, people are quick to back down and take it outside of the city walls when I've seen people interfere. Some times, though, you get the hardasses who break laws in public space and wave their dicks around, shirking off all consequences because reasons.

I don't get the impression that's the sort of thing OP was looking for. Just be prepared for do-gooders to step in and start trying to end the fight one way or the other.

Oh I expect there to be some RP law types showing up, as long as they can properly RP the situation, being as how a imagine in this time merely walking in and saying "I'm a good guy you must stop" Probably wouldn't be very effective.

I think if they could RP throwing a few punches themselves/being hit, this would make for an awesome time!

But, I do understand the point of, unless the people involved were willing to RP their injuries sustained for a few days, from an immersion RP point, probably wouldn't be very successful.

Me personally, I'd love to knock around a few people while getting my ass handed to me by drunken patrons/city guards!

Gegenji · **02-11-2015, 10:15 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:07 AM)Kage Wrote: tl;dr: I sincerely believe that if you don't want a scene of 5 people to become a scene of 30 people.... OOC communication!!!!! Especially in a place around or inside the Quicksand.

Really, I'm not surprised it ballooned out to that number. After all, everyone says to go to the Quicksand to get yourself some RP. That usually means idling around along the railing or getting a drink and hoping something pops up. Usually just someone walking up and initiating conversation with you (or, possibly, you doing that to someone else).

But have a sudden event where there's THINGS happening? EXCITING things? Rather than just the normal old "boring" RP, you've got fights and chases and the Blades/'Sworn stepping in. You can bet that people are going to try and jump on that, possibly without even trying to ask if they can step in. Or even trying to continue to participate even after being told this is a "private affair", with a few even making the valid comment that it shouldn't be done in a public place in such a case.

Basically, I would be more surprised if it DIDN'T become a cluster within short order.

Kinono · **02-11-2015, 10:16 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:13 AM)A Wrote: Me personally, I'd love to knock around a few people while getting my ass handed to me by drunken patrons/city guards!

You sound like the type of guy that'd be great to bring along to a bachelor party.

What are you doing in July?

Coatleque · **02-11-2015, 10:18 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:13 AM)Amon Vespar Wrote: Me personally, I'd love to knock around a few people while getting my ass handed to me by drunken patrons/city guards!

But when things settle down would you also love to be arrested for disorderly conduct for a day and fined a few hundred gil?

This is the biggest contention with people wanting to involve those who play law enforcement. They mostly expect to walk away scot-free once things are finished. It is why I try to keep things from turning violent inside the walls, and push people outside so they can beat each other senseless without me having to actually -be- the police.

Telluride · **02-11-2015, 10:20 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:18 AM)Coatleque Wrote:
(02-11-2015, 10:13 AM)Amon Vespar Wrote: Me personally, I'd love to knock around a few people while getting my ass handed to me by drunken patrons/city guards!

But when things settle down would you also love to be arrested for disorderly conduct for a day and fined a few hundred gil?

This is the biggest contention with people wanting to involve those who play law enforcement. They mostly expect to walk away scot-free once things are finished. It is why I try to keep things from turning violent inside the walls, and push people outside so they can beat each other senseless without me having to actually -be- the police.

This, 100%, and exactly.

If you want to have a brawl as part of an open RP area, and not as a privately conducted scenario, but refuse to accept harsh IC consequences, you have no right to expect the player base to respect you.

"Tavern RP" may be boring to many, but refusing to respect that some people do want it, and have a place for it, is a bigger crime than boredom.

Kage · **02-11-2015, 10:20 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:18 AM)Coatleque Wrote:
(02-11-2015, 10:13 AM)A Wrote: Me personally, I'd love to knock around a few people while getting my ass handed to me by drunken patrons/city guards!

But when things settle down would you also love to be arrested for disorderly conduct for a day and fined a few hundred gil?

This is the biggest contention with people wanting to involve those who play law enforcement. Â They mostly expect to walk away scot-free once things are finished. Â It is why I try to keep things from turning violent inside the walls, and push people outside so they can beat each other senseless without me having to actually -be- the police.

"I'm quite sure Momodi doesn't want her establishment harmed. Take the fight outside the city walls or I start bringing the fight to you."
I oocly chose to make sure this was the IC route Kage had. Both when he was a brass blade and when was a sworn.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **02-11-2015, 10:23 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:15 AM)Gegenji Wrote:
(02-11-2015, 10:07 AM)Kage Wrote: tl;dr: I sincerely believe that if you don't want a scene of 5 people to become a scene of 30 people.... OOC communication!!!!! Especially in a place around or inside the Quicksand.

Really, I'm not surprised it ballooned out to that number. After all, everyone says to go to the Quicksand to get yourself some RP. That usually means idling around along the railing or getting a drink and hoping something pops up. Usually just someone walking up and initiating conversation with you (or, possibly, you doing that to someone else).

But have a sudden event where there's THINGS happening? EXCITING things? Rather than just the normal old "boring" RP, you've got fights and chases and the Blades/'Sworn stepping in. You can bet that people are going to try and jump on that, possibly without even trying to ask if they can step in. Or even trying to continue to participate even after being told this is a "private affair", with a few even making the valid comment that it shouldn't be done in a public place in such a case.

Basically, I would be more surprised if it DIDN'T become a cluster within short order.

Pretty much this. ...I recall witnessing a date turned into walk-up murder once. couple people at a table, stranger walked up and snapped someone's neck, and the person died. THE ENTIRE QUICKSAND ASSEMBLED and we must have had about 60 people RPing all at once. It wasn't even possible to read the chatlog.

It's one of the really cool things baout open-world RP. Everyone will find a hook when something "interesting" or massive happens. But it can get really crazy out in the open like that. There's no way to easily manage that many people, and not everyone will adhere to "this is just between us" or "please let us act out our scene because it's not going to affect your RP".Â

From past experiences, I'd say a punch or two is probably ok inside the Quicksand, but with the amount of people in there, I'd take it outside. There's a lovely exit that goes straight to an alleyway that is -wonderful- to beat people up in~

Berrod Armstrong · **02-11-2015, 10:27 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:20 AM)Telluride Wrote:
(02-11-2015, 10:18 AM)Coatleque Wrote:
(02-11-2015, 10:13 AM)A Wrote: Me personally, I'd love to knock around a few people while getting my ass handed to me by drunken patrons/city guards!

But when things settle down would you also love to be arrested for disorderly conduct for a day and fined a few hundred gil?

This is the biggest contention with people wanting to involve those who play law enforcement. Â They mostly expect to walk away scot-free once things are finished. Â It is why I try to keep things from turning violent inside the walls, and push people outside so they can beat each other senseless without me having to actually -be- the police.

This, 100%, and exactly.

If you want to have a brawl as part of an open RP area, and not as a privately conducted scenario, but refuse to accept harsh IC consequences, you have no right to expect the player base to respect you.

"Tavern RP" may be boring to many, but refusing to respect that some people do want it, and have a place for it, is a bigger crime than boredom.

^ This. This, this this. Respect the setting, respect the circumstances, respect the consequences, and respect the players.

On another note, if something DOES go down and consequences loom, try playing them out! Having your character get arrested or fined can branch into more interesting avenues, and serve as wonderful background later down the road. Maybe he/she can't get that job down the line because he brawled in Momodi's place, maybe he's got a bad rep with the Blades now and they're always stink-eyeing him (behind those masks, anyway...).Â

I often find that a lot of people try to start things in taverns because they are 'bored', then refuse to take things past there by sealing off those events in a bubble devoid of consequence. Try playing out the consequences, and you may fight yourself bored less often!

(General 'you' here, to clarify).

Coatleque · **02-11-2015, 10:28 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:23 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Pretty much this. ...I recall witnessing a date turned into walk-up murder once. couple people at a table, stranger walked up and snapped someone's neck, and the person died. THE ENTIRE QUICKSAND ASSEMBLED and we must have had about 60 people RPing all at once. It wasn't even possible to read the chatlog.

Being the person who's date was murdered across the table from her, I can say that this event was quite fun. What people need to realize is that both the murderer and victim had this planned ahead of time. He would die, she would be caught.

I would -love- to see an all out brawl happen. All I'm saying is, do your best to mitigate drama and powergaming ahead of time.

Gegenji · **02-11-2015, 10:30 AM**

(02-11-2015, 10:28 AM)Coatleque Wrote: All I'm saying is, do your best to mitigate drama and powergaming ahead of time.

And be prepared for it during, even with the preparation beforehand.

Warren Castille · **02-11-2015, 10:36 AM**

My favorite out for this sort of thing: If your character gets hauled off in chains by the Brass Blades, remember that it is completely believable to just bribe yourself free off-screen later. The biggest issue that causes these things to potentially spiral off into OOC frustration is the lack of consequence; No one gets seriously hurt, no one gets in trouble, there's no fallout. Ul'dah gives people such an easy way out of trouble through bribery that I'm surprised more people don't just rely on that.

Remember that Sultansworn, if they are present, have little jurisdiction law-wisem to arrest anybody. They'd likely resort to calling in Blades to do the actual enforcement, and it allows there to be a tense line between those who wish to do good and those who do good, but will waive that for sufficient gil. Good guys remain good, bad guys remain bad (and free!) and those caught up in the mix get to go their separate ways.

tl;dr get arrested, bribe dirty cops

SicketySix · **02-11-2015, 10:58 AM**

I think that is where some confusion is being held.
Allow me to state what I ACTUALLY WANT TO HAPPEN!
(bolded for effect)

#1. Get into a verbal argument.

#2. Throw a few punches, knock a few people around.

#3. Get jumped on by law types/ other patrons

#4. As long as they don't expect me to go quietly, I will eventually go with them under the case of being arrested.

#5. Probably not log in for a day or 2 or A'mon (rp being arrested) and emerge a few days later, out early on account of a bribe, wearing an eye patch from my injuries.

@ Berrod, although I do understand what you are saying, if I have to conform to what others want for their RP setting, they should equally have to settle for the way that I occasionally want do something. Makes sense, yes?

TLDR. If there are any guards out there that are bored of nothing happening, let me know, I'm your guy!

(02-11-2015, 10:16 AM)Kinono Wrote:
(02-11-2015, 10:13 AM)A Wrote: Me personally, I'd love to knock around a few people while getting my ass handed to me by drunken patrons/city guards!

You sound like the type of guy that'd be great to bring along to a bachelor party.

What are you doing in July?

Attending a bachelor party that's about to be awesome!

Warren Castille · **02-11-2015, 11:13 AM**

The only other piece of advice I can give is that not every roleplayer in the game hangs out here. While your intentions sound perfectly acceptable to me, it's possible that others see the fight start and jump in. As Kage mentioned sometimes these things take on a life of their own, and you effectively lose "control" of the fight as soon as it starts.

I'm not meaning to sound discouraging! I just don't want you to bite off more than you can chew if you start a full-scale riot.

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