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Smiling River · **03-05-2012, 09:38 PM**

I was under the impression that the point of OOC shell was to unite all ROLE-PLAYERS, so that we can find ways to RP easier, discuss RP, and so on.

Some questions:
Is this shell still a community shell or does it now have a clear leader? Does the name intermission actually supposed to mean something now, as opposed to Out Of Character which was just a name used as a clear label of the LS? Is this version of the shell have more weight on the "social shell" aspect of it than the previous? If so why? What do you mean by 'social shell'? How does this differ from the original intent behind the OOC pearl, if at all?

***

Gospel, I am not sure who the "you" in your later half of the post is, but since your referenced me specifically I'll assume it's me you're addressing. You're pretty much doing the exact same thing in your post as you did in the /random combat post, which is basically creating a straw man argument and then reacting with fervor against it.

I don't think there should be a "rule" against OOC chat. I never proposed that, and if I did, I'd be damn sure to make a better outlined case for it, and get more than 1-2 people on board. But it's not really what I want, so you painting it as some sort of a petition when I am clearly a minority isn't very nice.

I've the tools I need to cut out the noise should I feel I need to, no need to worry about that. You did end up agreeing with me though, about RP discussions being topics of higher importance than random every day chitchat. So... again, I am not sure why you're going apeshit arguing against my post.

Self-quote ftw:

Quote: Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should be talking about RP all the time, but that should be one of the main draws to this LS.

I don't see how you can read that and then proceed to type a reply as skewed as the one you wrote there Gospel.

Gospel Gestalt · **03-05-2012, 10:42 PM**

I have already said this is a social shell in the extent that people are free to talk about anything they want so long as they keep it PG-13. It is a shell for people in the RP community to have an OoC shell in which they can chat and mingle in and also announce and seek RP. So yea, it is very much so a "Social" shell like any other LS in the game. Only this one is strictly for RPers. The Out of Character shell was made for the same purpose

I'm sorry if I made you feel labled Oskar and yeah, I know this edit is a probably sounding like a complete omelette flip cause for the most part, since my previous post came off as a selfish attack. All I can do is apologize and I'll admit I may be venting some... (okay, all my) frustration off here on you and that wasn't cool... but I really don't know how or what else to really say here at this point. The shell is a pure social channel for people within the RP community with elements in which people are still highly encouraged to discuss RP in an OoC fashion and announce and plan events. As to why? Most have voiced that they feel comfortable having a shell in which they can just break from character and be themselves for awhile. I don't want to take away that element from them when so many have stated that they like it.

All I can do really is just tell members who want the social aspect out or if they want to have new rules is that they can try and start a poll. It's the only way I can really give them a shot at getting them what they want. I pretty much run the shell on a majority vote system. It's also why I say it's the communities shell. They have the power to shape this shell into how they see fit so really it is still their shell, not mine.

As for the rules I stated in the older post, all I can do is follow them and be the annoying guy that has to enforce and remind people of them. That may possibly label me as the guy who owns the shell. I'd rather not be labeled as that but if that's what it comes down to then I guess that's that.

That's really the only thing I wanted to get across. I apologize for labeling and attacking you in the post above my edit. it was wrong on my part.

Aysun · **03-06-2012, 12:17 AM**

I think Oskar's and my (and some others) problem with this now is just that we did not realize that this new shell would end up with different purpose than Miyu's original shell.

Miyu Asuka Wrote:I've become more and more annoyed with the splitting of the RP Community.
No, we will never ever agree on all things, what we CAN do is make -one- big linkshell for ALL! and ALL! Rp-ers to join, and prefeably WILL join so we can at least know WHO is an Rp-er, communicate with other rp-ers, annouce/create events/linkshells/friends/whatever so we can at least (re)start all the fun with Roleplaying again.

This linkshell is called Out of Character because I like simplistic and straightforward names.
Everyone will be officer and everyone, yes EVERY roleplayer will be invited, no discrimination. The point of it is to gather all RP-ers, no matter what style, race, timezones, shells, or whatever. You don't -have- to talk to other people or like other players but you can at least see they ARE roleplayers and maybe rp with them.

The idea is to spread this asap so we can have just simple fun in what we do best: Create stories.

I urge you to join, no.. I BEG you to join so we can finally break those walls between comfortable friends groups and reach out to other and perhaps entirely -new- roleplayers.

Yes it's a risk to give all and all roleplayers officer status, but I trust in you roleplayers to make this work.
After all our differences and disagreements we can all agere on one thing.

We -want- to roleplay. So let's do it!

To me it always seemed like the unity of the RP community was first for the sake of RP, and social let loose stuff second. I never thought of the original pearl as a simple 'let's just chat' type pearl. I thought of it as a tool to gather RPers and a list of active RPers. Which is why when the conversations got out of hand on a pearl that I thought was being used to represent and bring together the community, I was upset. With the influx of new RPers from the server merge, I saw the shell as an opportunity for them to join the community and find RP with us here, as well as those in established linkshells to branch out. So good behavior and staying 'on topic' more often than just acting silly was what I thought was expected of us.

So, Intermission is a social shell for RPers, not the new OOC shell. Because it doesn't seem like a true recreation of that shell's original goal..

Or hell, maybe I misinterpreted even that original goal. Maybe it was supposed to just be a social shell all along. I don't even know anymore. Frustrated

Gospel Gestalt · **03-06-2012, 12:30 AM**

It originally was and I think Intermission still is like the OoC pearl. Just over time in OoC it became more and more of a social shell and it seemed people just started to roll with that. When Intermission was made it was pretty much during the time frame when OoC was in that phase.

If you guys really want me to start asking people to tell people to tone the OoC chat down, I can. I just don't know how well that will fly with people since they've become so accustomed to how things are now. All I can do is try and ask is if this is what they want. I personally feel this shell is still within the proper guidelines of the Original OoC because frankly, I almost see no difference between the two. The community, for the most part is all together in this shell right now. They still discuss RP, Plan events and talk about their characters. As for what the shell represents, It's really just a matter of the eye of the beholder. I can also try asking what you people want to do from here.

Some view it as a social shell for RPers, some view it as a means to only link the RPC. Really the whole thing has just greatly evolved. I personally view it as all the above.

So I guess what I'm asking now is... What do you guys want to do? What do you think should be done right now?

Kadika · **03-06-2012, 03:13 AM**

I personally would highly disagree and discourage telling people /not/ to talk on the intermission pearl, since as I always understood it, at it's inception, the Out of Character shell was meant to be a place for all RPers from multiple shells to be able to come together and socialise.

This socialisation breeds community that makes it easier for people to break past that barrier that some people find they have that prevents them from just rping with strangers. The ability to be comfortable with the people you're rping is really important.

The sudden change in the shell's tone would probably put a lot of people off aswell. I mean, i haven't got any particular use for a shell where people should keep chat to the minimum of asking about events and organising rp. Nothing stops people from doing that now, and they often do. Heck, i've been rping with a LOT more people thanks to the out of character/Intermission pearl than I did without it, simply because i find a like speaking to the people there.

Gospel Gestalt · **03-06-2012, 07:21 AM**

Honestly after going back and rereading all this, I'd just like to kindly ask if Kylin or any other mod if they could just close or delete this thread.

This whole thread has really just turned into one god aweful mess. Really as Oskar said, the point has been more or less, made. The players were causing trouble have been listed and talked to and will be dealt with a fair manner. Anyone who may of dropped the pearl are welcomed back anytime, just ask anyone for a pearl. You want, you can talk to me via PM if you want or need anything. Just I personally feel this thread in the state that it's in probably looks like one horrible turn off for newer players. There's no reason for this thread to continue on any longer. Everything else since the named players has just turned into a horrible off putting display and I personally apologize and am willing to take the full blame for any and all of it.

Riik · **03-06-2012, 08:33 AM**

This thread didn't turn me off. In fact, I found it interesting to hear how different players view the linkshell (everything else just looked like typical forum arguing to me, except a lot more polite and calm than a lot of forums I've read, so i have great respect for that. If this is considered a 'horrible turn off' on this forum, then if anything, it's made me a little more respectful of the community).

Moving on, I joined the OOC shell as a way to reveal myself to the player base as an RPer and to know who is more likely to respond if I start emoting in front of them. I was also hoping a bit of casual roleplaying to come my way, but everyone on the shell in Gridania seemed busy, so I ended up playing around Acon Orchard (until someone walked in on me as I was doing so, making me feel rather embarrassed XD ). I did expect a social side to the shell, though, so I wasn't that suprised when i joined. And to be fair, there was some RP chat going on as well in the shape of preparation for an event (although I believe most of that ended up being about Dante and his subligar XD ).

I have one problem with the shell atm, and it's a problem that is my fault, and that's I'm too shy to ask if anyone is up for roleplaying >.< . I'm sure after meeting a few of you guys ingame, I can get over that though.

Rhin · **03-06-2012, 02:32 PM**

I'd just like to share a little thought that came to me as I was reading through this thread and trying to wrap my head around both sides of the argument.

Way back in the day I used to be a stage manager at a small theater company run by students and alumni from my high school. One way to think of theater and acting is extremely serious hardcore Live Action RolePlay, On Stage, With an Audience. So some things from the Company apply here.

Namely, in our theater house we had two particular rooms on opposite sides of the stage.

One was our Green Room, a resting room/lounge for actors to wait in when they weren't in scene. Our Director explained it to us thusly : "The Green Room is a place for you to get everything that you're trying to suppress out of you. When you're on stage YOU ARE (insert character here), leave everything else in the Green Room." So it was a place where people could just be who they really were, de-stress, smooth frazzled nerves, and be ready to jump on stage in their characters.

The other was the Production Room. This was the director's and manager's offices. In this room we would work out the details and nuances of actually running the show. We'd plan and edit scenes, revise scripts, design sets, coordinate projects, anything that had to do with the background work of show business, we did it there. Free from the distractions of those crazy actors and my ever-complaining stage crew.

Perhaps that's the direction we're heading in now. We have a "green room" in Intermission, where the RPers of Balmung can just lounge around and hang out and be friends while waiting for RP to happen. It might not be a terrible idea to have a "Planning Office" type linkshell for RPLS leaders and other RP leaders (i.e. if you have an RP plot line to coordinate with the greater community) to use for managing far-reaching RP events.

In this way, I'm not saying that one group is right and the other isn't. I think we all as moderately mature adult-type people should be able to come to a mutually beneficial and functional solution for everyone.

SamusKnight2K · **03-06-2012, 06:56 PM**

That doesn't sound like a bad idea Shurin. As for the linkshell I'd hate it to become a RP discussion only shell. Many of us just chat, be silly or talk about everyday life. RP chitchat happens too so it's not all about real life stuff. If it gets to be too much I just tune it out myself.

@Riik - Don't be afraid to ask for RP! Some may be busy so it won't always happen, but we're all generally friendly! There's one other guy I know who's the same really, very shy and timid about flat out asking. Plenty of us would be more than willing to RP with you. Just give it a shot!

EDIT : My bad meant Riik not Riil, haha. What I get for responding via a cellphone. :3

Verence · **03-07-2012, 01:26 AM**

Just stepping in for a moment to comment on the following...

Gospel Wrote:I understand some people want this shell to be a no real life talk and event planning shell only but... I'm sorry to say, that was not the intention of why this shell was created. As it stands now, unless I get more people to vote for this, It's 2 people's vote for no real life talk against 74. I've already said I'm not going to cater to the demands of one or two people. I will only change rules if a large majority wants change. If you want numbers, given that we have 77 members in the shell... I would feel that if they can pull together 15 or 20 votes that would be enough to suffice a change or at least a very heavy notice to consider a change in rules.

It's never a good idea to speak for those who haven't spoken for themselves unless you're confident of what they'll say. Never discount the silent ones in any given community; it's dangerous ground to claim to speak for everyone. I'm not saying this to say "So we should discourage OOC chatter!" Clearly a number of individuals enjoy that, and if they do, I'm sure not going to tell them they can't. Discourage people from doing what they want and they'll find somewhere else to do it, and the key to the success of this shell is keeping people using it.

But, I will say that I myself and several others I know aren't fond of inordinate amounts of OOC spam and have, numerous times in the past, muted OoC and will likely continue to do so intermittently here in Intermission. Heck, I even know a few who've stated their desire NOT to join precisely to avoid OOC spam. So, it's significantly more than 2. 15-20? No clue. That'd take a survey, and fact of the matter is that if ENOUGH people want it BAD enough, they'll probably speak up themselves. Me? I'm happy just muting - people can do what they want, and I'll do what I want. This approach does mean we'll "lose" a few members every so often when they mute and miss event and RP announcements, but the debate as to whether or not this is worth the heightened enjoyment and interaction of those who enjoy OOC chatting isn't one I'll get into here. The LS is what it is; until and unless the need for change is highlighted, it will probably remain so. If more and more voices speak up, limiting OOC chatter is something to consider, but until then, attempting to silence such voices out of hand accomplishes relatively little.

As for OOC chatter disrupting RP discussions, I'd suggest adopting a guideline somewhat similar to the following, which the past two RP LS's I've been in have adopted to fair success: Defer to RP discussions. Chatting about your new car is fine and dandy, but if a discussion about, say... I don't know, the appropriateness of post-modernistic literature in Eorzea springs up, people ought to politely defer and tone down their non-RP discussion or take it to /tells so as not to drown out the discussion of RP. This takes a certain amount of tact and consideration from both sides, but then if we can't scrape that together, we're doomed before we've begun.

That last bit is a bit of a concern to me, since I've seen... For lack of a better term, a sort of belligerent contrariness among some of the members of Intermission when people are simply stating their own views on RP. Saying what you think is not an attack and should not be met with aggression. People have views - often contradictory views - but unless they start pointing fingers and obviously referencing characters or incidents, their opinion ought to be respected. I'm not saying you can't argue against it, but keep it classy... I've seen reactions that range the gamut from subtly spiteful to blatantly petty.

Gospel Gestalt · **03-07-2012, 03:19 AM**

I'll admit I'm still feeling pretty awful for a lot of my past posts. I've been pretty stressed for multiple reason. I won't make excuses or go in to detail. There's no other way to say it, what I did was wrong and I shouldn't of lost my cool or point fingers at people. Even though I had a small list of names, I shouldn't of tried to claim ownership for the voice of others and for lack of better words, Straw-man the argument either.

So again, I apologize for the harsh things I said. I would like to ask if we could maybe come up with a small guideline with things like Verence was suggesting in the post above. If anybody has any more ideas they'd like to voice which they think would be an idea to take to thought, please feel free to share. I'm all for making a small list and posting it once we get some thoughts in.

Eva · **03-07-2012, 03:21 AM**

We're all going to have preferences that are as unique as our individual selves. Like Kylin, my focus is on the RP first and foremost. I very seldom go OOC for any reason these days (that's what forum posts are for I guess). I know some people in the past have expressed that think that's weird or whatever, and those are valid opinions too. And maybe it is strange. I never claimed to be normal anyway. Everyone plays the game in a way that will enhance their own enjoyment of it. For myself, I love the RP and the interactions and coming to Eorzea to explore and enjoy this fascinating world of magic and mayhem and mischief. I'd much rather sit in a small group and discuss current events in RP than spam Ifrit runs or whatever. That's just me. I know other people, even other RPers, play this game differently and I can appreciate that.

For the linkpearl itself - I have everything set up on two tabs. The first (default) tab is labeled IC and has every communication channel (/say, /party, and all RP linkshells) open with only the Intermission channel filtered. This is how I log into the game each time. The second tab is exactly the same as the first, labeled OOC, and has all communication channels open, so I see all the usual stuff, plus the Intermission text (which is a dull grayish-purple so I can still keep a focus on what's being discussed in-character if need be). I do toggle back and forth depending largely on my mood. This works well for me. Since my time spent in the game is easily conducted in-character 95%+ of the time, the Intermission text scroll often pushes stuff in /say or /party or one of the RPLS's off screen before I've had a chance to read/interpret it.

Then there are times when the RP linkshells I belong to are quiet, and it's nice to have OOC/Intermission as a fallback instead of just sitting around waiting for something to happen. It's nice to talk a bit about RP ideas, or planning events, or theorize the way our characters might behave in certain situations. I've seen all of this discussed and it's an entertaining alternative to any sort of actual RP. I admit I feel a little more awkward when talk shifts to more RL-centric stuff, but it doesn't exactly bother me, and I've participated openly in such conversations. I don't really like the extensive swearing or lengthy sex talk, but it's easy enough to tune out if it bothers me. I can certainly understand and appreciate the mentality of referring a fellow RPer to this linkshell only to kind of have to offer a word of caution about it in the next breath. From what I've seen on the linkpearl itself and from what I've read in this thread, it seems like Gospel does a good job of moderating it.

Anyway, that's my perspective. I also think everyone here is awesome and made of ultra win. :cheer:

SamusKnight2K · **03-07-2012, 08:25 AM**

After talking with a few LS members tonite Gospel maybe a slight cap should be put on the OOC chitchat. If there's nothing really going on RP discussion-wise, then it's probably okay. But pretty frequently I see chatter going on between two individuals (I won't point names or anything.) that have absolutely nothing related to RP beyond just casual real life chatter. Again, I have absolutely no problem with the OOC chatter as that's just why the pearl exists. But if you're going to have a lengthy discussion about how cute your pet is or your favorite music band with like one other person it's probably best better taken to tells or an alternate means. It's a difficult line to draw what might be okay and what's pushing it. But just tonight as I was doing Ifrit runs I poked between my filters and there was this huge discussion mostly between just two people that really had nothing to do with RP.

Again, I am not saying that it has to be about RP or only RP. I myself like to relax and have a casual talk sometimes. But there's a difference between a longwinded discussion that's pretty much involves nobody else, and one that pretty much anyone can get involved in. So yeah, some way to kind of curb it I guess... Sorry if that doesn't help, I'm rather tired right now as I type this and I'm really out of ideas for recommendations.

Riik · **03-07-2012, 10:28 AM**

I admit I personally went a bit over the top with non-RP chat last night over the shell (at least by my standards), but that was boredom, coupled with the fact that I always get more talkative when I'm tired and I was getting a little more comfortable after being brought into conversations a little. Maybe it's good that I opened up with the community because normally, I never manage to do that so quickly (if at all, in some cases).

What concerns me most is that when I asked about RPing over the LS, I only really got 1 reply (unless I missed anyone else's) and the non-RP conversation going on didn't really pause, either. For that moment, it felt like I was talking over a general community that only a select few were roleplayers rather than a complete RP comminuty. As if some members of the LS weren't even interested. I'm probably reading too much into this, but at that point, it felt far more social-based than RP-based.

Thankfully, in the end I did get my RP (much thanks to Kass, Aly, and even Endricane, for his small part in the RP - or at least the part of the RP I was involved in, as he was still RPing when he took Kass on a date in the middle of the desert O.o ). And it was great fun, even if it was all sitting around XD.

Another thing I point out is that so far, other than talk about an event, I've really not heard anyone else try to organise an RP over the shell. Either not much RP goes on during the time when I'm awake (the sucky thing about GMT time is by the time I go to bed, it's still evening in the US, and thus still prime time for online gaming), or a lot of people are using other means to organise RP. If the latter case is correct, then I would really think about toning down the non-RP chat (in my personal opinion, anyway) to try and draw in those people who do want to use the shell for RP planning.

Kassandra Dawn · **03-08-2012, 12:26 AM**

Ahhh! Riku! I love your signature!!! <3 my ooc rp son!!

oh and you're in the guest room rp wise we didn't leave you at the bar.

Out of Character LS Repearling 2/24/12

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes