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Sounsyy · **04-13-2015, 11:37 AM**

(04-13-2015, 07:14 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Also worth considering is that five years ago, Coerthas wasn't a frosty winter wonderland. It's likely that their entire ecosystem is undergoing massive changes due to the nuclear-winteresque impact of Dalamud. Failing that, Coerthas is also more than just one zone, so it's possible that the bulk of their farming and herding happen elsewhere.

Piggybacking off of Warren's post...

[Image: maps_coerthas_ff14.jpg]

This was the 1.0 map of Coerthas, which was still an alpine region - cold, snowy winters and such - but wasn't yet completely frozen over pre-Calamity. As you can see, the region hasn't changed much in 2.0, and SE has pretty much confirmed that Heavensward will re-open up these other outside regions as new Coerthas zones.

[Image: WNqoIt2.jpg]

Anyways, the Coerthas Lowlands to the south as well as the Miller's Glade region in the Fields of Glory to the East were actually farmlands in 1.0. Sheep/Karakul provided wool for clothing and textiles, as well as milk and meet. The lowlands were fed by the runoff waters of the White Maiden. There were also several hamlets in the surrounding areas, Falcon's Nest, which in 2.0 we learned was frozen over solid when the Snowcloak glacial shift came in from the west. Then Owl's Nest in the East, which in 2.0, access has been blocked off.

Here's also a few snippets of Fishing and food item description lore on how Ishgard might feed themselves and what:

Show Content

Food Lore

Quote:Maiden Carp
Large schools of these dark silver fish can be found in the White Maiden and her tributaries. Their tendancy to gather in great numbers makes them quite easy to catch, and as such they have been a staple for those living in the Twelveswood since the time of the first settlers.

Quote:Leafy Seadragon
Though once found all across the five seas, seadragon numbers are now but a mere fraction of what they once were, due in part to Ishgardian culling parties.

Quote:Emporer Fish
This giant freshwater fish lives out its adulthood feeding in the Indigo Deep before returning all the way back up to the head of the White Maiden to spawn. Its eggs are considered a delicacy among Ishgardian nobility and the Ul'dahn elite, and this has led to severe overfishing of the species. Now it is believed that only a few hundred remain.

Quote:Dzemael Gratin
Passed down through generations by the Dzemael family, this dish consists of thinly sliced popotoes and eft tails baked in a creamy white sauce.

(Dzemael Gratin is a bit of a lore flub actually. Popotoes are from the New World, and the New World was only recently discovered 16 years ago by Merlwyb. So it's not possible for this dish to have been made with popotoes for "generations" likely another tuber or root vegetable substitute.)

Quote:Knight's Bread
A hard, leavened rye bread traditionally eaten by the knights of Ishgard.

Quote:Trapper's Quiche
Eggs, cheese, and chopped eft blended together and baked in a flaky crust. A favorite amongst Ishgardian nobles.

Quote:Crowned Pie
A galette-style pie decorated with a golden crown and served at Ishgardian festivals.

As for what Isghardian farms and gardens might be growing:

Quote:Coerthan Carrot
A long orange root vegetable commonly grown in the rocky alpine soil of the Coerthas region.

Quote:Dzemael Tomato
A rare crossbreed of ruby tomato developed and perfected by House Dzemael botanists.

Quote:Alpine Parsnip
A long white root vegetable indigenous to the mountainous region of Coerthas.

Quote:Faerie Apple
A tart variety of apple commonly found growing in the cool mountain passes of Coerthas.

Quote:Mirror Apple
A sweet yet sour variety of apples native to Coerthas. When polished, the skins become so shiny it is said one can see their own reflection in them.

Quote:Pixie Plums
A tart fruit commonly grown in mountain orchards in the Coerthas region.

Quote:Rye
A dark variety of rye grass commonly found growing in the higher elevations of Mor Dhona and Coerthas.

Hope this helps! ^^

EDIT: Also interesting fact, since I saw mention of sky fishing in here, none of the Sky Fish have lore stating that they are eaten. In fact, some of the larger sky fish are actually (mistakenly) thought to be Dravanian beasts.

Sylastair · **04-13-2015, 12:02 PM**

(04-13-2015, 10:24 AM)Aya Wrote: One has to imagine that they barely get by - relying mostly on expensive imports and hunting. Â Any stockpiled food ran out long ago. Â Starvation is probably a serious problem on the lower levels. Â The effects of permanent winter honestly seem t be undersold :-X

This. I have always imagined Ishgard in a serious state of famine and disrepair. That coupled with their ever increasing religious fanaticism and isolationist mentality makes me see it as the FFXIV version of North Korea.

Flickering Ember · **04-13-2015, 12:42 PM**

Aren't there non snowy regions of Coerthas as of Heavens ward? Perhaps they get their food from there or perhaps they depend on dravanian territories won in the war? They were already a mountainous region to begin with and probably know how to survive in cold winters. However, with permanent winter, I imagine their population must be hurting but they are too proud to admit it.

Aya · **04-13-2015, 12:45 PM**

(04-13-2015, 12:42 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote: Aren't there non snowy regions of Coerthas as of Heavens ward? Perhaps they get their food from there or perhaps they depend on dravanian territories won in the war? They were already a mountainous region to begin with and probably know how to survive in cold winters. However, with permanent winter, I imagine their population must be hurting but they are too proud to admit it.

Well... the rulers are definitely not starving. Would they be too proud to admit that their lower classes are starving? Â They probably don't much care :-X

Cato · **04-13-2015, 12:45 PM**

Ishgardians? They're secretly cannibals! Wink

Khadan · **04-13-2015, 12:50 PM**

(04-13-2015, 11:37 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: EDIT: Also interesting fact, since I saw mention of sky fishing in here, none of the Sky Fish have lore stating that they are eaten. In fact, some of the larger sky fish are actually (mistakenly) thought to be Dravanian beasts.

Have a fishing quest dialogue =)

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/I_Beli...sh_Can_Fly

Firminnant:

Quote:Greetings, traveler. Visitors fromÂ Limsa LominsaÂ are rare to these rare climes. I am told you seek to fish the magnificentcloud cuttersÂ that grace theÂ Sea of Clouds. As squires, we practice catching our dinner, but the task is trying for even the most experienced among us. How one unaccustomed to the chore might hope to succeed where so many accomplished fishermen have failed is beyond me. But mine is not to stand in the way of foolhardy endeavors. The fish float upon inflating pockets of vapor, allowing them to ride currents of air. They are thus able to escape predators and take refuge in the clouds. Moreover, an aerial fish requires an aerial worm, in this caseÂ hoverworms. Such is the extent of knowledge that I can confer unto you. I fear the remainder is a matter of experience and skill. I should wish you good luck--you will surely need it.

Apparently them skyfish are edible and consumed not all that rarely =P

Sounsyy · **04-13-2015, 01:28 PM**

(04-13-2015, 12:50 PM)Kayllen Wrote:
(04-13-2015, 11:37 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: EDIT: Also interesting fact, since I saw mention of sky fishing in here, none of the Sky Fish have lore stating that they are eaten. In fact, some of the larger sky fish are actually (mistakenly) thought to be Dravanian beasts.

Have a fishing quest dialogue =)

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/I_Beli...sh_Can_Fly

Firminnant:
Quote:Greetings, traveler. Visitors fromÂ Limsa LominsaÂ are rare to these rare climes. I am told you seek to fish the magnificentcloud cuttersÂ that grace theÂ Sea of Clouds. As squires, we practice catching our dinner, but the task is trying for even the most experienced among us. How one unaccustomed to the chore might hope to succeed where so many accomplished fishermen have failed is beyond me. But mine is not to stand in the way of foolhardy endeavors. The fish float upon inflating pockets of vapor, allowing them to ride currents of air. They are thus able to escape predators and take refuge in the clouds. Moreover, an aerial fish requires an aerial worm, in this caseÂ hoverworms. Such is the extent of knowledge that I can confer unto you. I fear the remainder is a matter of experience and skill. I should wish you good luck--you will surely need it.

Apparently them skyfish are edible and consumed not all that rarely =P

Nice! Was just going off the fishing text from the guide. Usually there's lore in there about who eats them, but wasn't in the log. Glad to see cloud cutters are actually eaten. ^^ Since this is all fishing guide gives you:

Quote:Cloud Cutter
The swiftest inhabitants of the Sea of Clouds, cloud cutters will fly straight in a single direction for malms before quickly turning at some unthinkable angle and darting off in another direction. On rare occasions, they have been known to puncture the armor plating of airships.

Coatleque · **04-13-2015, 01:47 PM**

It's not that hard to imagine really. How do people survive in the northern reaches of Alaska, Canada, Siberia?

Before agriculture, we were primarily carnivores. Chances are, the majority of their food is fish/meat and they import grains.

Being in the mountains, they probably have an abundance of stone and ore to build with or trade.

Khadan · **04-13-2015, 02:06 PM**

There's also likely demand for resources only found in Coerthas. Both in mining and botany you'll find things like Jade, spruce lumber, Darksteel ore (rare), and as per mining leves "Blue Mythril". There's also an Ixali daily quest for miners to harvest "Furite", a key component to making the alloy known as Ishgardian Steel. Many many others, as well. =) I imagine in just Coerthas alone, there's a treasure trove of trade commodities for export that Gridania, a veritable 'bread basket' nation, would willingly trade their foodstuffs for.

QueenFrejyalen · **04-13-2015, 02:36 PM**

Thanks everyone for your responses! Â Thumbsup

I agree that they might be eating the dragons they slay, and that they are likely not surviving THAT well through this forced winter. Â I think once we can get to Ishgard, it'll be interesting to see if these predictions about their social classes will be accurate, because it sounds like it so far. Â And I hadn't thought about all the sheep in the Coerthas Highlands, so having their wool imported to their city would make a lot of sense!

Also I had not played during 1.0, so I was not aware how large the map of that area was, and wasn't sure if Ishgard only owned the land in the city limits or if they actually ruled over an entire "country" of land outside the city-state. Â I can't wait to see the new maps that'll come out soon to compare to the ones shown here. Â =D

As a side note, my main RP character is from the mountain range near Ishgard (or was, depending on how this plays out) but they relied on a nearby valley to grow their own food and materials as well as trade routes that they created in the mountains. Â So I guess I'll be studying Ishgard in-depth once the rest of the lore comes out. Â XD

SicketySix · **04-14-2015, 09:25 AM**

Just echoing a few replies here, but if we're talking their survivability when it comes to feeding or caring for itself, I think it's pretty open to actual trade agreements. It's just not up for opening their gates and receiving help from outside sources.

In their minds I think it's kind of like a prideful "This is our fight, this is our problem, we will handle it ourselves" approach.

Aduu Avagnar · **04-14-2015, 12:23 PM**

I just want to echo the sentiments of the fact that it looks like there are plenty of still green area's and just seems to be the highlands that got affected by the permanent winter. Given Coerthas was an Alpine region, they are most likely growing their own foods such as gourds, potatoes, carrots etc. Foods that survive in a relatively harsh climate. that as well as the meat, and most likely imported grains means that there is nothing to suggest that they are starving.

V'aleera · **04-14-2015, 12:31 PM**

I also recall a gathering leve that involved digging up fertile patches of dirt to be transported to areas more suited for growing crops.

Also, considering the iron grip they have on the population and export of chocobos (in addition to all their other goods), I don't think Ishgard has much to worry about trade-wise.

Tiergan · **04-14-2015, 12:46 PM**

(04-13-2015, 11:37 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(04-13-2015, 07:14 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Also worth considering is that five years ago, Coerthas wasn't a frosty winter wonderland. It's likely that their entire ecosystem is undergoing massive changes due to the nuclear-winteresque impact of Dalamud. Failing that, Coerthas is also more than just one zone, so it's possible that the bulk of their farming and herding happen elsewhere.

Piggybacking off of Warren's post...

This was the 1.0 map of Coerthas, which was still an alpine region - cold, snowy winters and such - but wasn't yet completely frozen over pre-Calamity. As you can see, the region hasn't changed much in 2.0, and SE has pretty much confirmed that Heavensward will re-open up these other outside regions as new Coerthas zones.

Anyways, the Coerthas Lowlands to the south as well as the Miller's Glade region in the Fields of Glory to the East were actually farmlands in 1.0. Sheep/Karakul provided wool for clothing and textiles, as well as milk and meet. The lowlands were fed by the runoff waters of the White Maiden. There were also several hamlets in the surrounding areas, Falcon's Nest, which in 2.0 we learned was frozen over solid when the Snowcloak glacial shift came in from the west. Then Owl's Nest in the East, which in 2.0, access has been blocked off.

Here's also a few snippets of Fishing and food item description lore on how Ishgard might feed themselves and what:

Show Content

Food Lore

Quote:Maiden Carp
Large schools of these dark silver fish can be found in the White Maiden and her tributaries. Their tendancy to gather in great numbers makes them quite easy to catch, and as such they have been a staple for those living in the Twelveswood since the time of the first settlers.

Quote:Leafy Seadragon
Though once found all across the five seas, seadragon numbers are now but a mere fraction of what they once were, due in part to Ishgardian culling parties.

Quote:Emporer Fish
This giant freshwater fish lives out its adulthood feeding in the Indigo Deep before returning all the way back up to the head of the White Maiden to spawn. Its eggs are considered a delicacy among Ishgardian nobility and the Ul'dahn elite, and this has led to severe overfishing of the species. Now it is believed that only a few hundred remain.

Quote:Dzemael Gratin
Passed down through generations by the Dzemael family, this dish consists of thinly sliced popotoes and eft tails baked in a creamy white sauce.

(Dzemael Gratin is a bit of a lore flub actually. Popotoes are from the New World, and the New World was only recently discovered 16 years ago by Merlwyb. So it's not possible for this dish to have been made with popotoes for "generations" likely another tuber or root vegetable substitute.)

Quote:Knight's Bread
A hard, leavened rye bread traditionally eaten by the knights of Ishgard.

Quote:Trapper's Quiche
Eggs, cheese, and chopped eft blended together and baked in a flaky crust. A favorite amongst Ishgardian nobles.

Quote:Crowned Pie
A galette-style pie decorated with a golden crown and served at Ishgardian festivals.

As for what Isghardian farms and gardens might be growing:

Quote:Coerthan Carrot
A long orange root vegetable commonly grown in the rocky alpine soil of the Coerthas region.

Quote:Dzemael Tomato
A rare crossbreed of ruby tomato developed and perfected by House Dzemael botanists.

Quote:Alpine Parsnip
A long white root vegetable indigenous to the mountainous region of Coerthas.

Quote:Faerie Apple
A tart variety of apple commonly found growing in the cool mountain passes of Coerthas.

Quote:Mirror Apple
A sweet yet sour variety of apples native to Coerthas. When polished, the skins become so shiny it is said one can see their own reflection in them.

Quote:Pixie Plums
A tart fruit commonly grown in mountain orchards in the Coerthas region.

Quote:Rye
A dark variety of rye grass commonly found growing in the higher elevations of Mor Dhona and Coerthas.

Hope this helps! ^^

EDIT: Also interesting fact, since I saw mention of sky fishing in here, none of the Sky Fish have lore stating that they are eaten. In fact, some of the larger sky fish are actually (mistakenly) thought to be Dravanian beasts.

These maps make me confused where Mor Dhona and the Shroud are on those maps. :V

Sounsyy · **04-14-2015, 01:22 PM**

(04-14-2015, 12:46 PM)Tiergan Wrote:
(04-13-2015, 11:37 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:

These maps make me confused where Mor Dhona and the Shroud are on those maps. :V

Mor Dhona zone line was in the very south of the map, where "Coerthas Central Lowlands" is written. And the Shroud exit is over in the East next to the Compass and Briar Lake.

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How has Ishgard been feeding itself?!

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes