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SunTzu7 · **06-02-2015, 02:43 PM**

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Also I suppose if that scene had played out the way it was supposed to, I think the presence of five mooks would not stop a very angry and heavily armed Newton from punting the Lalafell in question through a window after he walked up to her unarmed and laughed in her face about the whole affair.

Ignacius · **06-02-2015, 02:56 PM**

Orleans wouldn't have joined the Scions of the Seventh Dawn. Â He wouldn't mind if they hire him, but Orleans can't stand Minfilia. Â Or really any of them...

Chris Ganale · **06-02-2015, 06:03 PM**

(06-02-2015, 01:33 PM)Dogberry Wrote: I haven't really considered the sweeping consequences, but it basically goes majorly off the rails when Leviathan shows up.

Dogberry's white whale, lulz.

Pretty much all my characters share the same divergences. The first true deviance I can think of would be in the aftermath of Operation Archon. Northern Thanalan would come fully under the control of the Immortal Flames, and in memory of the man whose spirit was evoked in the title of the operation to defeat the Ultimate Weapon, the former Castrum Meridianum would be named Fort Leveilleur, and provide not only a staging point for further raids against Garlean holdings in Eorzea, but a wellspring of technological and military improvements for the Eorzean Alliance.

All would then proceed as normal until 2.4, wherein there would never be a battle against Shiva because ol' Icetits would take an axe/spear/sword/bullet(s)/blast of fire to the spine while she made the damned fool's mistake of turning her back on someone she just trash-talked and tried to have killed by her pet ice wolf. The Steps of Faith would never be threatened by Vishap, and ol shit-for-brains adeledji would need to find another opportunity to pull off his stupid scheme.

On the other hand, I feel as though Tahz is such the goody-goody sort that he'd be hesitant to strike Iceheart down with her back to him, which would let the rest of the story continue unmolested. Until the end of 2.55.

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Kellach Woods · **06-02-2015, 06:56 PM**

Where do I even start...

I'd probably say the biggest derail would have occurred in 2.4, where the seeds of all that ended up fucking up was planted. Upon FIRST hint of any discrepancy between assignments, weapon distribution, etc. He'd have dropped everything and performed audits, most likely at axe point because UNLIKE WHAT EVERYONE FUCKING ASSUMES he has absolutely no qualms about killing dudes (and like everyone knows he's simple so...)

Crystal Braves lose 2 regiments, and support from certain individuals, but they are expunged from their taint and the whole plan falls short. Alphinaud is exposed as a complete fucking dumbass (once more) but learns his lesson before it's too late.

* * *

Sophie would be the biggest derail - Upon a single look at Urianger she'd just go "Nope. Fuck all y'all."

Even assuming she could get over her prejudices for him, she'd probably refuse to go after Garuda because fuck Gridania, signed every Duskwight ever.

* * *

Oh jeez, Sasati would let everything happen, but jesus ass balls would she not take it, uh, sitting.

LiadansWhisper · **06-02-2015, 09:23 PM**

Do you have any idea how many people Liadan would have healed/dispelled/punted out of a window with Water magic at this point?

I generally rage at the stupidity of my character in the MSQ. Â Undecided

Verad · **06-03-2015, 03:41 PM**

(06-02-2015, 10:11 AM)Telluride Wrote: (Joseph Campbell calls it "Refusing the Call". Â SE could stand to read his stuff)

Nobody needs to read Campbell. *Heresy*

Aya · **06-03-2015, 03:52 PM**

(06-03-2015, 03:41 PM)Verad Wrote:
(06-02-2015, 10:11 AM)Telluride Wrote: (Joseph Campbell calls it "Refusing the Call". Â SE could stand to read his stuff)

Nobody needs to read Campbell. *Heresy*

Personally I think that Verad and Aya would have made a terrific WoL duo, lucking their way to victory.

Verad · **06-03-2015, 03:57 PM**

(06-03-2015, 03:52 PM)Aya Wrote:
(06-03-2015, 03:41 PM)Verad Wrote:
(06-02-2015, 10:11 AM)Telluride Wrote: (Joseph Campbell calls it "Refusing the Call". Â SE could stand to read his stuff)

Nobody needs to read Campbell. *Heresy*
Personally I think that Verad and Aya would have made a terrific WoL duo, lucking their way to victory.

Verad would hock the elemental crystals acquired from primal fights and use the Echo to bolster his Dubious Divination service.

Fighting Titan would involve a lot of screaming and running away until he somehow managed to make Titan trip and fall off his own arena.

LiadansWhisper · **06-03-2015, 03:59 PM**

I take it back.

I'm pretty sure Liadan would have snapped somewhere in Coerthas and just started defenestrating anyone who got in her way. Â She was so done with those people pretty early into the questline there.

Cato · **06-03-2015, 04:03 PM**

Graeham wished to become a diplomat and so he'd quite readily use his position as the Warrior of Light to fulfill that goal. After defeating more than one Primal he'd realistically be in a position to demand terms from the city states in exchange for his aid.

He'd also consider working alongside Gaius if need be - since in his eyes Eorzea is just as bad as Garlemald in many ways. Interestingly enough that's a point that will be reinforced for him if and when the situation in Ul'dah becomes common knowledge.

In his eyes Eorzea needs to be united but he's not prepared to wipe Garlemald off the map. He secretly loathes the people of Ala Mhigo complaining about the Garlean occupation since history shows they were the invaders themselves not too long ago. He also thinks that if the Garlean Empire could be persuaded to be a bit more diplomatic then the situation in Eorzea could improve dramatically via access to magitek in civilian life.

Enla · **06-03-2015, 04:10 PM**

(06-02-2015, 09:23 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Do you have any idea how many people Liadan would have healed/dispelled/punted out of a window with Water magic at this point?

I generally rage at the stupidity of my character in the MSQ. Â

Same here... I don't mind unintelligent characters in some cases, nor do I mind the idea of the WoL having literal gunk between their ears as much as others might. What I DO take issue with, however, is when the only reason the writers can find to move the plot in a certain direction is to make everyone as mindnumbingly stupid as possible. Literally, the story would not have progressed to the point it did if at least one - JUST ONE- of the main Scions put on the breaks and actually THOUGHT about what they were doing. Which is made all the worse because several of the Scions ARE made out to be highly intelligent, to the point where there is simply no excuse for their failings as a group.

LiadansWhisper · **06-03-2015, 04:25 PM**

(06-03-2015, 04:10 PM)Cylin Wrote: Same here... I don't mind unintelligent characters in some cases, nor do I mind the idea of the WoL having literal gunk between their ears as much as others might. What I DO take issue with, however, is when the only reason the writers can find to move the plot in a certain direction is to make everyone as mindnumbingly stupid as possible. Â Literally, the story would not have progressed to the point it did if at least one - JUST ONE- of the main Scions put on the breaks and actually THOUGHT about what they were doing. Which is made all the worse because several of the Scions ARE made out to be highly intelligent, to the point where there is simply no excuse for their failings as a group.

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Zelmanov · **06-03-2015, 04:39 PM**

Realistically, he'd lose all the patience he would have had when the company of heroes do that obscene errand quest and may decide then to either pack up his toys and go back home or go headfirst against titan. Either that or would be quick to speak of who he was to the owner of Costa Del Sol...whose name escapes me at the moment.

Barring that, Ysayle would have never made it to that aetheryte crystal and thus no shiva, no heretic leader, perhaps no weakened barrier.

Caspar · **06-03-2015, 09:42 PM**

I think this topic may have been done before, and I probably put a rambling post in it as usual. But anyway, here goes.

A lot of folks in here talk about refusing the call and what have you. I like to assume that the Echo would not be granted to a person who would inevitably not have the heroic cajones to do most of what the WoL does. I think Virara has the innate spark that would keep her on the same path, and the same gullibility/obedience. She actually will do a lot of those odd jobs and requests for little thanks as long as she is given food or money for it, or even if they just offered to teach her a thing or two about Eorzean culture. Actually, a lot of things the WoL does, she would do too, I'm not ashamed to admit. She's just not a forward thinker outside of her areas of expertise.

I can think of a few junctures in the story, however, where she might behave differently in a way that impacts the plot.

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Spoiler
1. The raid on the WS: Virara would consider abandoning the Scions here, depending on what stage in her character development this happens. Early Virara and potential late Virara would leave them to their fate and abandon them to the Garleans, working alone from then on out for probably unfortunate consequences.
2. Doman refugees: At least some of them might know her and refuse her help, and she is uncomfortable around them despite sharing their culture. She would not aid them, and thus probably not have Yugiri's critical aid in certain parts of the story, possibly derailing her and the Scions' efforts.
3. The Echo: Virara is already very strong so buffing her with that power could cause serious problems in cases where she mustn't kill someone or avoid overexerting herself. It is likely she wouldn't hesitate to kill Thancred when he was possessed, thus probably earning her the enmity of every ally she'd need to succeed later on.
4. The Company of Heroes Feast: Virara would only need to be told "gather these things and people and we'll make you a feast" and she'd be on it in a flash, no trickery necessary at all.
5. Ishgard: Virara is somehow even worse at diplomacy than a silent protagonist. I have no doubt that Alphinaud would have to work overtime in order to patch up innumerable diplomatic gaffes in her wake, and Ishgard is the place where it would hurt the Scions the most.
5. Leviathan: Virara is phobic of typhoons so this would be a difficult fight to get her into. Maybe she'd have to be blindfolded? But maybe that too could make Levi HM/EX a more interesting fight...
6. Iceheart: Virara doesn't get the Ishgardian grudge against the Dravinians and doesn't care. If the Scions told Virara "Kill Ysayle," she will do so without even so much as listening to her speech. If it's a face to face fight between equals Virara shows respect and a sense of "honor" because that is what she was taught to do. When killing someone outside of those circumstances, what she was taught to do was kill them immediately without fuss by any means necessary. Presumably Iceheart is strong enough to not die to all these cheapshots to the back everyone in here keeps talking about, so her bum rush would probably fail; if it didn't, she'd lose whatever critical clues the foreshadowing Iceheart's dialogue might have had to offer.

More recent events spoilers:

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So in general, I think actually Virara, powered by the echo would do a lot of things that the WoL did if she was in those circumstances, maybe even do them well given her prowess at killing things. But in terms of uniting others, showing charisma, being a little bit of a leader or inspiration to others, and in negotiation, Virara falls even shorter, and would probably doom the Scions to failure. If that sounds depressing, it just comes to show that overwhelming strength doesn't necessary mean anything in Eorzea.

Gone. · **06-03-2015, 09:55 PM**

Can Vetiver just snuggle with Y'shtola and call it a day? I'm pretty sure that's what would end up happening. Well, aside from not carrying poison-like substances found under mysterious circumstances into the Ul'dahn throne room, anyway.

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Breaking the MSQ

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