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Momoji Momochi · **07-02-2013, 03:41 PM**

Besides unequal distribution between the sexes, there is no inequality between the sexes in seeker culture. Being a nuhn is a duty, honor, and privilege to their race, not a mark of kingship. The trial by combat method of choosing Nahn probably adds to this confusion, considering it doesn't make much sense to begin with. A battle between sentient beings has no guarantee of determining prime breeding stock considering that a weaker person may just be more ruthless and cunning than the healthier male, which is an acquired personality trait and not related to bloodline. It is entirely possible that if a Nahn got too full of himself, the women may choose to breed with a Tia instead, since they are under no compulsion to breed with the Nahn if he treats them as possessions. I'd even go so far to say that a well intentioned Tia would easily win out over a Nahn in terms of getting female affection.

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-02-2013, 03:42 PM**

(07-02-2013, 02:23 PM)Azthran Wrote: Yeah I should have mentioned that the surname thing was for Sunseekers and not Moonkeepers. It slipped my mind because to my understanding Moonkeepers don't actually have tribes and just smaller family units.

This is about keepers of the moon of course but with regards to it being a small family unit what happens if all the older females die, does a male take over or does the responsibility go to a younger female (dependent on age of course).

If they bought a mate in for the oldest male from out side the family what happens, his children become part of her family but does the family group keep control or does the new older female become the lead. Â

Given the ratio with Miqo'te male to female. Â If in the above said family group there were two younger females and an older male would the two females try and find a mate each from new tribes or would they share one. Â It can all get a little complicated having a female ruled society with very limited access to males, I mean we don't want any inbreeding or anything like that...

Nox · **07-02-2013, 03:53 PM**

I'm not really playing a tribal Miqo'te, even though he was born in a tribe and still carries his tribe name. Even though he was born into the tribal scenario, he thinks the idea of a normal romantic relationship and marriage would fit him better (hence why he is "Ever-Tia" ICily). Other than that, he's an outgoing individual and is much more like a "metropolitan" Miqo'te, despite his background. That being said, he's more or less like a metropolitan Miqo'te with tribal tendencies.

Felix Sideris · **07-02-2013, 04:52 PM**

(07-02-2013, 02:55 PM)allgivenover Wrote: You're making the assumption that their position as Nuhn means that they get exclusive access and/or dominance over as many Miqo'te women as they want. All the lore says is that they gain the right to breed, and that there's about 50 or so females to every breeding male.

That doesn't mean they run around acquiring as many females as they can manage for a supposed harem type situation. This automatic negative light some of us are casting on Seeker culture comes from our own cultural norms regarding sexuality. This is roleplay though, on a totally different, fantastical and importantly fictionalÂ world. It's alright to apply a more neutral sociological perspective to them because of it.

Actually you miss understood me. I'm not making any assumption. I know full-well that Nuhn does not entitle you, but grants you the potential right to breed.

Which is why I -asked- the question in the first place. That kind of roleplay doesn't suit me. My question in the start was meerly what the majority of roleplayers actually did and how they depicted Miqo'te.

Personally, I would rather not roleplay the whole Nuhn thing, but that is me personally. I'm not judging or condemning anyone else for their choices. I just wanted to know the general population's stance on the matter so I could better make a decision on which race I will be playing.

I know I personally don't have to do the Nuhn roleplay, but I would rather play a Hyur if most of the Miqo'te male roleplayers are going to be doing something of the sort. However thus far it seems that is not the case.

Again, thank you everyone for your opinions. Smile

growly beast · **07-02-2013, 04:54 PM**

I love cultures with unique takes on gender roles and such, so I was immediately attracted to the miqo'te, especially the Seekers of the Sun. I developed some head-canon about it the more I thought about how it would apply to my character, R'aqsha Nunh.

I'll try to explain how it works in his "pride"...

I use the word pride because "clan" is already taken by the Seeker / Keeper thing and "tribe" is used to separate the groups by their totem, but I like to subdivide it further for a few reasons:

I don't want to step on anybody's toes if they happen to play an "R'name" miqo'te as well and their ideas for their family and mates are different.
Miqo'te are still pretty antisocial so it makes sense if they'd keep to smaller groups. So it seems unrealistic to me that Miqo'te would stick together in big tribes based on their totem.
I see tribes as a somewhat loose network of bloodlines and their offshoots as well as their following of their particular totem - in their case, Raptor. They know each other, and maybe they have a yearly get-together "family reunion" type event, but otherwise keep to themselves.

Females are somewhat dominant over males in his pride. To be a nunh is an honor, and he must impress each and every woman - namely, by besting any other man who wants to also be a nunh. I also think personality and physical attractiveness factor into it - in my mind, the girls are making all the decisions and they aren't going to want to mate with a guy that has a terrible personality or something, even if he can physically overpower another man. It includes social graces, physical attractiveness and physical strength.

I feel like the Keepers are probably decidedly MORE matriarchal, but to say Seekers aren't at all would be odd. There is such an imbalance of males being born that it probably naturally occurs.

At present, R'aqsha's tribe consists of about 25 miqo'te, with him and 5 other guys, 2 of which are nunh (him and one other). They each have 10 designated females each who have chosen which of the boys they favor. Many of the girls are sisters, descended from a recently deceased matriarch of their pride. There is currently quite a bit of tension / hullabaloo about deciding which of the women is going to assume the role as "leader".

That said, I consider my character and his pride more "tribal" than what most other miqo'te RPers seem to be doing, just 'cause I actually really like that RP. Doesn't really imply savagery / dirtiness to me - I just like exploring different cultures and lifestyles. They hang out in cities but they keep to themselves and their traditions - their only real interaction with other races and such is their performances (they are basically a travelling dance / entertainment troupe), because that is how they earn their gil.

Hopefully this makes sense. I really need to commit it to paper (well, the wiki or something) in his profile, but those are my thoughts right now.

Spiritual Machine · **07-02-2013, 09:32 PM**

Hey GB, have you considered making your "pride" split off and become its own tribe? That seems possible in the lore, and it seems a bit like what your group is representing, since you're separating yourselves from the main tribe and don't want to step on the toes of other Raptor tribe members.

I'd been wondering how people intended to handle the tribal bonds and attitudes of Miqo'tes. Seekers do seem a bit more difficult, since they apparently have very widely-reaching tribal bonds.

As a whole, all Miqo'te NPCs I've seen are friendly and mild, so being "tribal" doesn't mean you act that differently from the other races, I'll bet. Though after many years it isn't unreasonable to be more detached from a tribe anyway, with Miqo'tes living on the sea or in various city-states.

It's also not unreasonable to just leave your tribe to explore the world and never return. It's not like you're obligated to stay close to home if you're brave enough to leave. :3

One should keep in mind though that Miqo'tes are typically involved in these tribes because as a race they are reserved, familial, devoted and solitary outside of their social groups. This does not speak for all Miqo'tes, but as a whole they stick together.

So you can be an exception to the "rule," sure. But if you're not interested in Miqo'te lore at all, you may want to ask yourself why you don't just make a Hyur. Hyurs have fewer rules involved with their naming conventions and backgrounds, and can be just about anything you want them to be.

After all, if everyone plays an unconventional Miqo'te, then they're not going to seem very unique compared to Hyur. I think that represents missed opportunity.

Azthran · **07-05-2013, 10:42 AM**

(07-02-2013, 03:42 PM)Khaze Wrote:
(07-02-2013, 02:23 PM)Azthran Wrote: Yeah I should have mentioned that the surname thing was for Sunseekers and not Moonkeepers. It slipped my mind because to my understanding Moonkeepers don't actually have tribes and just smaller family units.
This is about keepers of the moon of course but with regards to it being a small family unit what happens if all the older females die, does a male take over or does the responsibility go to a younger female (dependent on age of course).

If they bought a mate in for the oldest male from out side the family what happens, his children become part of her family but does the family group keep control or does the new older female become the lead. Â

Given the ratio with Miqo'te male to female. Â If in the above said family group there were two younger females and an older male would the two females try and find a mate each from new tribes or would they share one. Â It can all get a little complicated having a female ruled society with very limited access to males, I mean we don't want any inbreeding or anything like that...

Honestly I'm not sure how the whole thing works and there is a lot of messy gray areas there. I can speculate that after a female reaches the right age she ventures out to start her own family unit and that would be tough considering the lack of males. It's just the way the lore describes the Keepers makes me think their family units have mom, dad, and the kids until they come of age and start their own family as compared to the seemingly much larger Seeker tribes.

A small note about the nunhs. I agree that they still have to gain the favor of the females as there is a bit of dialog in... Forgotten Springs... I think that's it! ANYWAYS! There are a couple of female miqo'te sitting on a rock by a stream and one of them mentions that he doesn't seem to care about his duties or something along those lines.

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-05-2013, 09:58 PM**

The problem with that system is that if the males are as rare as lore says and not what we see in game then it really would not work having one on one relationships, at least in the rural areas. Â I would think it is a smaller version of the seekers way of things just with the women in charge, bringing males into an already existing family. Â This I feel is supported by the names being passed down into the family groups. Â

That isn't to say that a male and female couldn't split off but I think it would be a rare happening. Â Maybe this is what happens when a seeker and a keeper mate. Â I think I read that going against the tribe rules is a little frowned on but again I could quite easily be wrong.

Again I'm just referring to the keepers side of affairs.

Savarah · **07-05-2013, 10:39 PM**

I was drawn to the Keepers simply because of their looks and their attitudes, along with their matriarchal society. I (probably wrongly) also made the assumption that there would be a bundle of Seeker boys running around trying to be a Nunh and claiming breeding rights over females.

What I'm planning is to have my Miqo female pursue her love of arcane knowledge to Limsa, upon which she takes up the mantle of an arcanist. But as for backstory, just something as simple as living with her small family in the Shroud until the Garleans got all riled up (around the age of 16 cycles I suppose). So I'm guessing that would make her sort of tribal-ish turned metropolitan?

Ryanti · **07-06-2013, 09:26 AM**

I'm afraid my response will be short because I'm tired, but I think I'll get the point across.

There's basically two different kinds of paths you can take. You can either immerse yourself into the lore of the more tribal side of Miqo'te given by Square Enix, or you could be a city-dweller. Someone whom is distant to a tribe, left, or simply was never part of one to begin with.

I understand there's a lot of people on this thread already that are talking about how the Miqo'te tribes aren't savage people. I think that's more of a OOC issue then an IC one. They aren't savages. They actually remind me more of Native Americans then anything.

However, it will not stop some characters from seeing them as such from a IC perspective. Specifically, characters with influenced or skewed views. My character does not like the tribal side of the culture, for example.

Then again, I made my character have a Hyur father and be in a Hyur family with a Hyur name and a Miqo'te mother from Garlemold. In the least likely position to appreciate the tribal culture of his cat half.

The perspectives are diverse; as diverse as people are IRL, really. There are people rp'ing tribal Miqo'te as not understanding or supporting technology and science and etc., and there are some well-educated, very intelligent tribalesque Miqo'tes too here in the RPC. It's all over the board.

Base your roleplay on what you want to roleplay at first, and see what you can work with in the lore to create something that is comfortable for yourself to fill your shoes in.

Nnejo · **07-06-2013, 09:47 AM**

(07-05-2013, 09:58 PM)Khazeto Zhwan Wrote: The problem with that system is that if the males are as rare as lore says and not what we see in game then it really would not work having one on one relationships, at least in the rural areas. Â I would think it is a smaller version of the seekers way of things just with the women in charge, bringing males into an already existing family. Â This I feel is supported by the names being passed down into the family groups. Â

That isn't to say that a male and female couldn't split off but I think it would be a rare happening. Â Maybe this is what happens when a seeker and a keeper mate. Â I think I read that going against the tribe rules is a little frowned on but again I could quite easily be wrong.

Again I'm just referring to the keepers side of affairs.

So then I suspect it is safe to say that a seeker female who falls for a keeper male would likely be cast out of her current tribe? The pair would possible be exiled or keep their affair a secret. I'm new and just sort of working through the things in my brain in regards to lore.

Spiritual Machine · **07-06-2013, 11:41 AM**

(07-06-2013, 09:47 AM)Isis Wrote:
(07-05-2013, 09:58 PM)Khaze Wrote: The problem with that system is that if the males are as rare as lore says and not what we see in game then it really would not work having one on one relationships, at least in the rural areas. Â I would think it is a smaller version of the seekers way of things just with the women in charge, bringing males into an already existing family. Â This I feel is supported by the names being passed down into the family groups. Â

That isn't to say that a male and female couldn't split off but I think it would be a rare happening. Â Maybe this is what happens when a seeker and a keeper mate. Â I think I read that going against the tribe rules is a little frowned on but again I could quite easily be wrong.

Again I'm just referring to the keepers side of affairs.

So then I suspect it is safe to say that a seeker female who falls for a keeper male would likely be cast out of her current tribe? The pair would possible be exiled or keep their affair a secret. I'm new and just sort of working through the things in my brain in regards to lore.

FromÂ http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo%27te/Naming:

The parents and child may be also be shunned by both tribes, depending on their stance on inter-tribal breeding.

It should be noted that the game's character creator is not expected to allow for mixed tribes at launch.

So members who breed outside of their tribe may be cast out, depending on their tribe's personal feelings about inter-tribal breeding.

It should be noted that there doesn't seem to be an official source for that quote or for information about inter-tribal breeding, and that it is all speculation. Here is the source for that wiki page:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threa...onventions

It doesn't include information about conventions for mixed tribes.

So basically, unless there's another official source somewhere, you ought to treat any creative liberties regarding what tribes do about mixed tribe Miqo'te as a treatment that only occurs within a certain circle of your clan or family structure, so it doesn't conflict with similar backgrounds that other people may think up. Just seems like good sense.

@Ryanti, since it seems like your character is half Hyur and half Miqo'te, do you happen to know where the official lore is regarding cross-breeding between races?

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-06-2013, 12:10 PM**

(07-06-2013, 11:41 AM)Spiritual Machine Wrote:
(07-06-2013, 09:47 AM)Isis Wrote: So then I suspect it is safe to say that a seeker female who falls for a keeper male would likely be cast out of her current tribe? The pair would possible be exiled or keep their affair a secret. I'm new and just sort of working through the things in my brain in regards to lore.
FromÂ http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo%27te/Naming:

The parents and child may be also be shunned by both tribes, depending on their stance on inter-tribal breeding.

It should be noted that the game's character creator is not expected to allow for mixed tribes at launch.

So members who breed outside of their tribe may be cast out, depending on their tribe's personal feelings about inter-tribal breeding.

It should be noted that there doesn't seem to be an official source for that quote or for information about inter-tribal breeding, and that it is all speculation. Here is the source for that wiki page:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threa...onventions

It doesn't include information about conventions for mixed tribes.

So basically, unless there's another official source somewhere, you ought to treat any creative liberties regarding what tribes do about mixed tribe Miqo'te as a treatment that only occurs within a certain circle of your clan or family structure, so it doesn't conflict with similar backgrounds that other people may think up. Just seems like good sense.

@Ryanti, since it seems like your character is half Hyur and half Miqo'te, do you happen to know where the official lore is regarding cross-breeding between races?

This is close to how I'm playing it personally but I was intrigued by other peoples views hence my questions. Â Khaze'to's grandfather was a Sun Seeker but when the tribes found out they threw out the pair, Â leading to the resultant small family group that Khaze'to comes from. Â I'm also playing it as this is why his family allow the romance between himself and a Sun Seeker when he was younger.

As for the breeding between species, this threadÂ about the cross breeding among'st racesÂ does state that the species are able to mate and I think breed but the children of such parings have not really been shown much in lore yet.

Nnejo · **07-06-2013, 08:30 PM**

Khaze- I am definitely intrigued by the aspect of inter-clan mixed relations. My boyfriend and I chose the Miqo'te but he chose the Keepers while I opted for Seekers. I'm very big on the lore that surrounds any character I play in a game. So I guess my concern is for how the couple would be perceived by the community of Miqo'te as a whole. The two clans showcase very distinct differences both visually and culturally it seems.

I suppose it could make for a very compelling story of forbidden love and the like. Though I suspect living in a large city views might be slightly different especially if the majority is opting to roleplay the less tribalistic Miqo'te. I would honestly welcome the conflict that would arise from it though.

growly beast · **07-06-2013, 10:36 PM**

I'm extremely turned off by the idea of mixing clans and races. The creators clearly intended for them to be separate, and I'm not really a fan of pushing clearly past the limitations they've set for us. It feels like an unnecessary complexity. I personally enjoy working within the constraints given to me.

Also, romance probably doesn't work the same way at all for miqo'te as it does for us as humans. Seekers, especially, are polygamous and monogamy seems to be unheard of. Just another lore-breaking item, taking away key things that make miqo'te who they are.

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